1/96 Cutty Sark WIP (Revell H-399)

Off the top of my head I believe there are a few.  I think this image will help.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200238684582942&set=a.10200182948909585.1073741826.1027512645&type=3&size=2048%2C1536

Rob(feel free to poke around the images)

looking forward to your next pic's mate , the e-mail thing , is not only you my friend . 

Sorry for the delayed response to your comments, all....I normally get an email notification when the thread is bumped, but I think the settings must be on the fritz.

Anyway, thanks for your kind words of encouragement!  I've gone through periods of frustration with this build, but it's turning a corner and I think the worst of it is behind me.  Sally forth, and all that!  :)

I was going over the rigging plans, getting ready to strop blocks for the masts...I expected a lot of blocks to be called out, on the masttops, crosstrees, etc., but it really only show me a couple of blocks each on the lower masts for the mainsail lifts....the tops and royals don't sbhow any block for those lines, they just tie from the mast itself, to the yard, back up and then down to the pinrails....seems weird.  I'm going to have to check Longridge to see if the rigging plans are even close to accurate?  Rob, off the top of your head, do the masts carry blocks all over, or are there just a couple on the lower?

This a totally *new* time period of rigging than what I'm used to, so I guess I need to do some research!

Thanks again, excellent peers!

Dave

You all are better modelers than the kit. I think the hull halves are the two best parts, after that most of the rest of it isn't too swell. In particular the deck furniture.

It's great to see all of the improvements that are being made.

Dave. I am not totally familiar with the other kits you mentioned..since my car, motorcycle and armor modeling stage was brief and when I was much younger. One thing to be noted is that the Revell CS and Conni kits are over 50 years old...or at least molded on 50 year old tooling. My first CS build was done around 1975 and even then I found myself having to scratch build corrections. This didn't bother me because I was also building my first scratch version of the CS at the same time(I'll provide a crude B/W image). Anyway, it was the sheer scale of the kit that drew me to it.....I needed a big model for my space. Back to your issues......I've found that study, study, study is the modelers friend...because you can then correct any issues you may have with the inaccuracies of the kit. I was a scratch builder before I was a kit builder...so it was only natural for me to add and or correct the kits I built. I feel this experience for you is exactly what the DR ordered. The meaning of this, is, you become a far better modeler when you can skillfully modify or correct issues with your kits...making them more accurate and or presentable. You are becoming a better modeler...when you can easily tackle problems that would otherwise stop your build. A good modeler is never *stumped* by issues, he/she is actually strengthened by them as they fabricate solutions You then become familiar with many media to use for your disposal. You have already mastered a great painting and weathering technique...this in of itself can establish an average or superior looking model. It is true...I have used the CS hull to fashion 3 other vessels...but that is because I was able to make the mods to them and I am generally a lazy builder...so I used the kits engineered hulls for my purposes. I then scratched built the entire rest of the ship. As far as the Ferreira is concerned....she is in essence the CS with heavy mods and additions/subtractions....not to mention extremely heavy weathering to mask loads of defects..... I think you are tackling this new CS WIP with much skill and precision as your level of skill has afforded. It is who you are at this stage of your modeling career...and I'm confident you will adapt and incorporate new skills into your bag of tricks and become an even greater modelers for it. I've seen you come a long ways and you have not left me wanting for words to describe your modeling.....FANTASTIC...AWESOME..... Your friend, Rob

what mike said , dave . your build is beautiful mate , love following your WIP . your ability , really is beyond comparison , and can see why you get so frustrated , but the rest of us mere mortal's , learn from people like you and rob and steve , so please keep perservering mate .

Dave,

I understand your "rant" completely. That's because you have the talent to make any kit shine and you want to know that the detail, fit, and engineering that the manufacturer put into the product will not hold back the skill and effort you contribute to the build. All understandable.

You're making this kit another of your works of art. I'm constantly impressed with your WIP.

Thanks, Steve!

I hate to admit it, but I feel like I've done a lot of complaining about this kit, and my ability to make it look nice. :(

*NOTE*...before submitting this reply, I realized I kinda went off on a rant...if any readers don't want to tolerate my rambling opinion, please feel free to skip this post.  I almost deleted the following paragraphs...

When I was young, I started modeling by building car kits, from Revell/Monogram, AMT, etc...as my skills improved, I began to realize the quality of the kits was lacking, and no matter how *good* I was at building them, the detail, mold quality, and part fit was always going to get in my way.  I finally gave up on modeling for many years...until I met a friend who was building a Tamiya motorcycle kit.  That changed everything!  Tamiya showed me a level of quality and detail (and solid engineering design) that inspired me to start building models again!  Plus they offered some really cool subjects...I built most of their 1/20 F1 kits, and lots of race car kits (Mercedes CLK-GTR, Nissan r390, NSX, Porshe, Supra, et.al)...the point is, I trusted the quality and I grew as a modeler because I wasn't fighting against mold lines, flash, injector pin marks, sloppy detail, etc.

When I decided to try out sailing ships, my first kit was Revell's Bonhomme Richard...I may not have to tell you that the quality there was similar to what I'd come to expect from Revell.  Being my first ship model, I didn't care much.  Then I built the Revell Vasa....acually, it was a nice kit!  Clean molding, solid detail, and it went together pretty well!  Remember, the Vasa is new tooling and design from just a few years ago, and the advances in technology show up in it. :)

Next up was Zvezda's Back Swan....another really well-made kit!  Loved it!  Then...I found Imai.

Imai offered several ships from a period and style that I really liked...I built several, and thrilled at the quality and detail.  Can't say enough about Imai.

Then I decided to tackle the Soleil Royal, by Heller (though it was an Imai boxing, meaning better instructions, and maybe better plastic?)...I did struggle a little with part fit, especially in the aft galleries and stern area, but for the most part, it was very well-made.

The Revell Cutty Sark is a tremendous kit, lots of parts and detail, and very ambitious, especially for its time.  But it does (in my opinion) have its flaws.  Nevertheless, many people consider Revell's Cutty Sark, and the Constitution (which I also have, but have not opened the box) to be among the great sailing ship model kits.  But for me, I feel a bit disappointed by it.  But I'll persevere, and do my best to get the best out of it....it's interesting to note that people have made terrific finished models from it (Rob has a talent for the Cutty Sark kit, and his many variations on it), and many of the Revell Constitution builds I've seen here are amazing!  I think there's a certain amount of *kit-correction* and *scratch-building* that needs to be accepted as part of building these kits, and plenty of modelers see that as an integral part of the challenge.

For my part, I enjoy adding a few *extras* to a model, but not to such an extent.

Just realized I went off on a longwinded rant there....that's what I get for having a second cup of coffee and sitting in front of the keyboard! lol  Sorry guys!  I'll end it here...

Once I get into standing rigging, I may look back at the assembly stages and forget all about the things I said today.

Thanks again!

Dave

From where I’m sitting it is looking awesome bud. Beautiful work as usual.

Steve

I may go with paper for sails, or some other material....I suppose when the time comes, I'll get some silkspan, and a few other materials to perform some experiments, and see what works best for me.  I like the paper technique I've seen on your models, Rob.

I have made some progress...got the draft decals on, but made a mistake and didn't realize that Radek sells his draft scales as a universal set that goes up to 25 feet, for the Cutty Sark it only needs 22 feet and the rest of the decal should be trimmed off...ships like Constitution or Victory use the entire scale.  Not a huge deal to me, but simply something I didn't learn until after they were applied :)

I also put on the Photo Etch parts...yikes.  I wasn't prepared for the delicacy of those parts, nor did I really know what I was doing.  After some trial and error (and some damage to a part or two) I got them on with an *okay* result.  HiSmodel.com has some tutorial workflow PDFs that will help anyone who is looking to work with his PE.

Pretty much all the deck furniture is on now, I basically only have a few parts that go on after standing rigging, and a bunch of yards and spankers or gaffs or whatever.

Here's a couple pics:

Decided to dry fit the masts, to get an idea of the overall aspect of the model

20180721_172914 by Dave Kump, on Flickr

Here's some PE on a couple of boards (don't know what these parts are called, but they go on the bow of the ship after headgear rigging)...the PE looks better than the decals would, I warrant.  Still needs a little touch up and slight weathering.

20180726_065621 by Dave Kump, on Flickr

Picture of the draft scale decals, and some PE...the model has a lot of dust accumulating on it so far!  Again, the PE will get some touch up and weathering.

20180726_065709 by Dave Kump, on Flickr

Stern view.  You can see the PE scrollwork back here is very ornate.  But the fit issues with the hull halves and the railing are also evident.  Once I go back and touch up the gaps with some black paint, it will hopefully even out pretty well.  You can also see I went ahead with fine sewing thread for the railing...I think it turned out pretty well....I was just planning to give it a try and it went so smoothly I kept going, got all the railing for the whole ship done in about 30 minutes :)

20180726_065825 by Dave Kump, on Flickr

So, now the instructions tell me to step the masts...guess it's about rigging time!

Before I do that, though, this is my chance to go through the entire model, perform some corrections, apply some touch-up paint, more weathering, dust everything off, etc.

Then I'll start tying blocks on to the masts...the instructions specify block installation after stepping masts and during rigging steps, but I think anyone who's waited to install blocks knows better!  Then it's off to head rigging, and shrouds and stays....

Thanks for watching!

Dave

Dave..there is nothing to forgive...you have done what you did based upon an outcome you wrestled with.  I can't fault anyone who realizes, *enoughs is enough*, and can move on.  Regardless...I've watched you for some time and I am fully confident this model will supercede all your expectations for it.

Your attention to your paint, weathering and its effect is stunning IMV. Your build is warm and satisfying.  And the best part is....each model is left up to the builders own interpretation...were paint and small details are concerned.

My own attempt at these deadeyes left a mark....a piece of thin strip wood beneath the deadeyes.  but I, like you had to decide this mod will have to do to overcome an even greater issue....the funky kit provided deadeyes/lanyards.

You went the extra mile...as is evident in all your builds.

I myself thought of using silk span...however the translucensy of the material convinced me it was not the material for me.  Others have mastered or have accepted this shortcoming and have amply reproduced wonderful sails with it.

I have decided, through much experimentation, that I will be using paper set sails for the Great Republic. I used paper for furled and weathered sails on my Ferreira...it stains and works well IMV, plus you can add scale details with sharp pencils. Very convincing at this scale.

About sails...I purposely left them off my CS because she was in for repairs and I could hyper detail her yards with jackstays and all the hidden rigging sails can mask.

Your  thread is one of my favorites..because it concerns a clipper ship....so I'll be monitering it attentively.

Keep up the magnificent work Dave.

Rob

Your work on the Revell Cutty Sark (and the variants thereof) are examples of mastery, Rob....having seen some of them in person, I can say that the details you impart are top-notch.  I did notice the bulwark braces in your picture...another terrific subtlety. :)

Other notable effects of your builds include the realistic *sag* of certain rigging lines to simulate the actual weight of the full-scale rope...also, I recall the hooks on the ends of line that connect to eyebolts in the deck....not to mention the water dioramas!  Each of these examples are in my memory as testament to your artistry.

You're correct about the lower deadeyes...I struggled with them for a very, very long time...to the point that I was close to giving up the project entirely (which is not something I've done before).  Long story short, I had a plan for the lower deadeyes at the beginning of the build, and when I reached the point of installing the deadeyes it wouldn't work the way I envisioned it.

What I ended up with is not ideal....they are indeed much too high.  But I've moved on.  Every kit won't turn out to be a home-run, and I guess I can live with this one.

It's my hope that, once complete, the finished model may still have an overall aspect of glory, or majesty, or some other really cool adjective!

I'll know about the deadeyes, I'll look back and remember how I felt frustrated that they wouldn't work out the way I intended...and I'll forgive myself for *making it work*...and I hope you will, too.

By the way, just wait until I get to the part where I'm making set sails out of silkspan....and let's hope I get a good result from that!  lol

Thanks for your input, Rob...it's nice to share this project with someone who has such experience working with the source kit.

Dave

Cleaning up alignment issues makes you a better adapter...not only that, but more flexible to scratch building.  It will be a testemenant to your skill when all the *Issues* of the kit have been masked behind clever corrections.  Sometimes a minor out of character correction  can be masked by additions of layered details....such as coiled ropes, stored spars and supplies....tools of the sailors craft. You want to distract from errors or modifications with other details (This principle will be addressed later).

As you have noticed, I did indeed scratch build the pump on the head cabin..like you also noticed the molded one was too indistinct.  Throughout my build I added pleanty of such minor details...such as I cut out all the molded bullwark braces and replaced them with scaled wire ones...along with painting the iron red cement waterways as she was originally fitted out with.

You're doing a magnificent job...I'm impressed.

If I was to have any chriticism of your progress, it would be your attachement of the lower deadeyes to the rail.  Your method allows the deadeyes to be elevated far above the finished rail..where they need to be set below the rail.

I don't wish to disrespect your fine efforts..but I believe this blemish will detract from what in all other descriptions is, a magnificent representation of the Cutty Sark.

I know you are guided by a pressing perfection and I just don't want you to look back and say you could have done something different or better...when there is pleanty of time to correct it now before the correction is past feasability.

I can make suggestion if you wish...if not, I can keep my opinions to myself and simply enjoy your wonderful build.

Best wishes,

Rob

The Port fore bulwark is ~3/16", and the stbd bulwark is more like 1/8"...so it was substantially lower to stbd, but only in the forecastle area.  My kit is an older one, as well, box says 1974.  I can clearly see that your bulwarks were quite even in height.

When I tes-fit the stbd cathead, it protruded a good way above the bulwark, so the caprail would not lie flat across it. Here's a pic of both catheads....hopefully you can see the starboard cathead has been ground flat, while the port still has the U-shaped profile at the underside....it's because I had to remove so much material for the starboard side so it would sit flush with the bulwark.

20180707_114524 by Dave Kump, on Flickr

Super-close image makes it obvious there's some overglue present.  lol

There have been so many misalignment fubars that I'm going to have to spend a few hours before rigging starts just cleaning up the glue, paint mishaps, etc. in several spots.

Also in the pic you might be able to see to misalignment of the fore deck piece (though it's mostly cropped out)...I couldn't get the edges to line up with the hull, and after sanding for so long, it was finally beginning to cause the deck to sit too far forward so that the windlass wasn't going to fit in its place....so I had to give up on reshaping the foredeck and just live with it....with some shading/weathering applied later, I'm hoping to minimize the conspicuousity (word?) of the gap.

Don't even get me started on ejector pin marks, seam flash, etc...I'll say it again, I must have been spoiled by Imai and Zvezda!  :)

BTW, I noticed you must have scratchbuilt that pump/apparatus on the port deckhouse side?  Looks much better than the molded-on silhouette.  Nice touch!

Dave

I'm trying to remember about any cathead issues with my build...was your kit an older or newer kit?  Mine was one from the original early issues.

Here is an image of the forecastle and the cathead area before I layed down the rail...did yours appear like mine?  And what did you have to cut down exactly...the bulward or the cathead?

Thanks, you guys...and thanks for the railing pics, Rob.

My current position is step 38 from the instructions...boats and davits.

I still have anchors, bumkins, and a little more railing, deck furniture and figurehead to install before I switch gears to rigging.  It's interesting to note that there are several steps in the instructions that show a particular assembly detail, but it is stated to wait and perform a step later (after standing rigging, or after head gear rigging, for example)...so I have LOTS of notes and highlighted sections in the instruction sheet margins reminding me to go back later and revisit sections, so I can complete steps from before.

Rob, the styrene you used for the handrailing looks great!  Once I get everything else on deck, I'm going to go back address the railing, but not sure if I'll use styrene or what...maybe some fine wire, or something...i'll experiment a little and see what I like.

The caprail around the stern and foredeck areas was another area that gave me fit-trouble, and the starboard fore bulwark was molded low, so the cathead protruded above it, I had to dremel off a LOT of material to keep the cathead low so the caprail would lay down over it...

All in all, it's going pretty good.  I have had to fight with the kit in a few places during the journey this far, and I'll need to perform a bit of touch-up to clean up some areas that became messy during the *battle*  lol

Dave

Another aft rail image.  I had to cut each lower rail and bend to appropriate curve before glueing.  Then weathering.

Stern rail

Another

Dave...I hand laid the rails with styrene..NO string.  I'll look for more images.

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/7/p/177929/2000193.aspx?page=3

This is looking sharp, Dave. 

There was a discussion here about the anchor arrangement. I'll look for the link and add it to this reply. 

The conclusion was that the anchor chain is raised by a windlass under the fore deck, then runs across the deck to a second windlass and goes down into the chain lockers. The chains run around the sides of that hatch, and rub against the sides. The sides of the hatch coaming are reinforced with iron angles to run the chain against.

I spent the last couple of weeks installing deck furniture...

Happy to report the fit of most of these parts is pretty good, so I may not have to abandon the build, after all! lol (the hull and the decks offered crummy fit in all the wrong places, very frustrating, and I'm glad to be past that stage!)

Here's a couple of pics...

Full-length deck view...

20180624_072614 by Dave Kump, on Flickr

Funny, the *slight* weathering I applied to the decking doesn't show up in the photos very well...here's an aft-deck picture, if you look around the hole where the mizzen mast will step, you can make out some darker shading, and also further forward, at the borders of the deckhouse...in reality it's a bit more obvious, but I may go over the entire deck again before masts go in.  The chalk pastels are a great way to weather over the scaledecks wood, the effect can be very subtle.

20180624_072646 by Dave Kump, on Flickr

I made sure to only cement the pump parts to hold the structure together, but left the rotational parts free, so the handles can be turned and the rods will move up and down!

20180624_072722 by Dave Kump, on Flickr

I still have several areas in which to install furniture, boats, etc., but it won't be long before I'm putting blocks on the masts and getting started on rigging.  Always surprises me how the rigging steps seem so far away until *BOOM*...it's time to wax some thread!

A couple of things I haven't gotten figured out yet, and would appreciate some advice on:

-Soon the railings will be installed that call for "thread wrapped around the stanchions"...the handrail.  Anyone have pointers on how they approached these?  I feel like thread could easily start looking hokey, but I don't know what others have done.

-Anchor chain.  I didn't plan ahead, and it looks like the instructions say to connect chain to the anchors, then run it through the hawseholes, under the forecastle deck, and leading to the *ports* (?) below the foredeck windlass?  It looks like a funky setup, and also, the foreward hatch seems too wide, like the chain would rub on it?

Any insight on these areas would be appreciated.

Thanks again for watching!

Dave

Getting those deadeyes lined up sounds like a bear. I’m glad to know you ”got her done!”

So far you have done an outstanding job on her bud. I can hardly wait to see the next set of pics.

Steve

Finally got the lower deadeyes all installed, and I've been able to move onto assembly/install of deck furniture.  Very happy to be able to proceed, at last!  Those deadeyes gave me a serious case of *builder's block*....lol

I do have to say, even after installing the *forecastle* deck with the windlass, there are more fit issues.  I had to perform dramatic reshaping of the focsl deck to get it even close to snugging up between the fore waterways of the hull parts, and then the windlass didn't want to line up.  Seems like it's been one thing after another with this kit...maybe it's a Revell thing, maybe it's just "one of those builds", you know?  Maybe I got spoiled with all the Imai kits I built before :)

Anyway, I've got some deckhouses, pumps, and ladders to detail, then hopefully the install goes smoothly.  No pics this time, but once I get the next 4 steps (21-24) completed, I'll share some thoughts and images.

Thanks, wish me luck!

Dave

Interesting approach Dave.  I never had any issues of the rail popping off due to stress from the shrouds...because, along with good glue...I also reinforced under the rail with blocking..joining the bottom of the rail with the side of the bullwark, forming a much larger glueing surface.  There is ample room beneath the rail to hide this additional blocking..because of the depth and shallowness of the rail and the close proximity of the deck house...you will never see beneath the rail as you can in your photograph.  Plus if you set/glue your deadeyes to a thin piece of stryrene you have all that surface to bond to  the rail that you already reinforced. Paint the styrene.

Or you can simply attach the deadeyes directly to the rail(skipping the styrene) prior to glueing the entire rework to the bullwark

Plus your deadeyes will be below the monkey rail as they should be.

I did this technique on both my CS and the Ferriera..and I had no issues of seporation or pulling off of the rail from the bullwark.

Your painting and deck look wonderful...I can't wait to see more.

Rob

"Baseball Bats."

lol. Yes, it seems that way sometimes, Bill!

I am going to have to cut myself some slack on this one...at this point, I'm desperate to move on....

So I got one pinrail section of deadeyes installed, not my prettiest work, but it'll do and hopefully they won't stand out too much later.  Here's the deal:

My original plan was to run these wires up through the waterways in drilled-out holes, then through holes in the pinrail, install the deadyes by wrapping the wire around and twist, snip, done.

20180508_182501 by Dave Kump, on Flickr

I soon realized the wire wasn't going to be forgiving enough, and I couldn't keep them uniform in height (the deadeyes, that is)....so I decided to trim the wire, curl it into a little hook, and use black line as my strop/chainplate

20180508_182512 by Dave Kump, on Flickr

Using the line as my new strop, I feed one end under the wire *hook*

20180508_182613 by Dave Kump, on Flickr

And using a sweet little styrene jig with a notch cut out of it, I pulled the line up to bring the deadeye to a prescribed height, clipped the line to the jig, and tied it snug...

20180508_182622 by Dave Kump, on Flickr

20180508_182717 by Dave Kump, on Flickr

20180508_182750 by Dave Kump, on Flickr

20180508_182826 by Dave Kump, on Flickr

20180508_182903 by Dave Kump, on Flickr

20180508_182946 by Dave Kump, on Flickr

This last pic is of the entire pinrail (12 deadeyes, all 3.5mm except the middle two, which are 4mm)...they look pretty messy and uneven, but that's mostly (!) becasue they are now free to settle onto the wire hooks. Once the shrouds are on, the deadeyes will be pulled back up the original height that they were tied at (all things being equal)...

20180508_190549 by Dave Kump, on Flickr

Anyway, I've got 54 more to install to the hull...with luck I'll be a pro by the end of the starboard side, and the port will be my default display side! 

Again, I don't think this is the best way...it's just what I ended up with...I'm sure if I tangle with the Cutty Sark again, I'll devise some other plan....I like Rob's idea of pre-installing them and then affixing the whole assembly as one piece.

Thanks for watching!
Dave

You've got to cut yourself some slack too. These kinds of projects seem feasible "all else being equal", but it never is.

The bulwarks may be too low, the pinrail is too thick, the pins are baseball bats.

Whatever you come up with Maestro, the results will be so much superior to the original.

Interesting you would suggest that, Rob, because that was one of my ideas for them...to install the deadeyes to a piece of flat material, and then attach that to the rail...but I was afraid of the tension of the shrouds pulling the pinrail off.

I also considered making a flat piece (same as above) and trying to put some kind of angled brace on it and attaching via the inner bulwarks, thus avoiding the perilous pinrail pulling.

Once I've gotten a few more installed, I'll take some pics of my hybrid technique, and post it here...not that I would recommend this way to anyone, since I'm really just using what's necessarily left from my original idea, and salvaging it with an easier, more consistent method.

Thanks!
Dave