1/96 Cutty Sark WIP (Revell H-399)

Ben thank you for those photos! To me it looks like they show what GM suggested might be the case - an iron flange around the bottom corners of the hatch. If that's the case then my concern was totally unfounded.

GM - thanks for the edification regarding what you've been told by BlueJacket. I guess it would be better to err on the side of caution regarding posting complete plans. Kirill did only post 1 of 3 pages but it's a complete page so probably best to adhere to your suggestion.

Thank You very much ! - very informative foto! :)))

Nice! Ben.

It also looks like the coaming around the base of that hood/ companionway has rivets at the corner (?) and a flange on the deck. If it was an  iron "L" I guess the chain could just run against/ over it.

Bill

Another angle may help! Compliments of John Richardson's Cutty Sark Ferreira, p185.

CS Winch:Chain:Hatch by Benjamin Zabriskie, on Flickr

I think that I figured out how to post a Flicker photo? I tried doing this in and earlier post. It shows how the anchor chain is hauled across the deck by the cargo wench and feed into the chain pipe.

CS Winch:Chain by Benjamin Zabriskie, on Flickr

Because, and I speak from some experience; a partial plan and a full plan are two completely different things.

I once asked Blue jacket about this, and that was their answer.

I'm not sure why it would be necessary to take down part of the set of plans Kirill has. We paid for them and should be able to share part of them with fellow modelers. A copyright lawyer should chime in here.

Anyway, what Kirill shows is part of the same set of plans I have. I still don't see how the chain could be kept from rubbing the hatch frame - even after having looked at these plans.

For what it's worth here's a slightly closer view of what Kirill posted (from my set of plans).

I'm certain I don't have the skills to have altered/scratch built parts for this kit when I was working on it. Dave probably does and may choose to follow the Campbell plans or work out a solution of his own.

You probably should take them down. Nice resolution...

Sorry if it is against the low... to post his drwngs here ...than if somebody need some drwngs from his book ,China Tea Clipper, in high resolution, pls ask kirill4_66@mail.ru , I will give the link to download it in private mode :) ...

but for Cutty Sark he( Campbell) has different chain pipes location... 

removed...Mike posted fragment of the same foto

Aha...here is it... not Cutty Sark, but proposed tea clipper... deck plan 

...removed...

Good day,

this is interesting questing , abt anchor chain... have somewhere Campbell's drwngs... need to find it...

The overhead taken before the fire. I did have a reference I now can't find, but I will. It suggested that the chain couldn't be run out over the gypsy head on the windlass, so when dropping the anchor it had to be run around. The cargo winch, perhaps one further aft than the foremast, could be used to warp a long length of chain down the deck and back.

There's a very real possibility that Revell put the spurlings in the wrong location.  Or got the hatch dimension wrong.

Found this photo:

Which may give a clue as to where this went sideways.

The anchor deck is a fascinating cubby space.  Ref:

Thw capstan and windlass are not connected.  The capstan is served by bars racked on the house for the heads.  The windlass is driven using T-bar handles in the rocking head up on the anchor deck.

Now, when sailing vessels started using chain for rodes (chain lockers being very much smaller than cable tiers, allowing more cargo) that created a problem.  A chain locker is a compartment is rather a large weight in a ship.  And being out by the bow it has a considerable moment arm to the ship's CG.  So, it's in the deisgner's interest to get the locker as far aft as possible.

Now, what may have happened is that, for setting the anchor, where the windlass is only needed for its pawl, is to flake out on deck the amount of rode required.  Considering it's stowed in a compartment below the waterline, the chani is likely rusted and wanting attention before being set out.

Browsing the intertuubs, it appears to be a question that has nagged many modelers; with a variety of solutions.  Which seem to split between, ignore it, and move the spurlings to a fair lead.

Here's Longridge on the subject:

"Chain pipes-two small chain pipes must be made, they go through the deck on each side of the chain locker hatch., but far enough apart for the cable to clear the sides of the fore hatch."

Shipwreck

 

Mike, you almost have it right. You just have to place the chains on the drum ends of the cargo winch. The capstan transferes the chain to the winlass, from there it is hauled across the deck by the cargo winch, and feed it into the nave pipe down to the cable locker below deck.

 

 

1943Mike

 

Thanks, Mike.

Yes, Part 87 is the mechanism to turn the windlass. Similar to a handcar on a railroad, or a pump.

https://books.google.com/books?id=2gQqDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT204&lpg=PT204&dq=cutty+sark+anchor+windlass&source=bl&ots=2anLi5rFVl&sig=SFTgawaOCJ8yXbY2ofunPbaeK5E&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiV0P3BsMzZAhUNCawKHRBRA2UQ6AEIVTAL#v=onepage&q=cutty%20sark%20anchor%20windlass&f=false

Here's what I can find.

The anchor chains were not reinstalled on the ship after the fire. I found a few pictures looking forward in the fore part of the hold, and there are no chains dropping through, or signs of a chain locker or pipes.

There 's a few photos up on deck, showing the windlass, and a companionway behind it that's been installed for a tourist stair. No chains in sight.

There is a short piece of chain in one picture kind of laying againt this other new companionway, and a short piece draped over the freight winch.

If I were building the model, I'd follow this example, correct or not. It makes pretty good sense.

"I'd like to see a photo a little further forward. From the instructions you can see a T shaped device on the forecastle (anchor) deck. That's the lever set for turning the anchor windlass."

GM, Your wish is my command.

You've got the spurling pipe covers. Those are Part 102.

It's hard to see, but that looks like the anchor windlass up there at the underside rear edge of the little anchor deck.

The apparatus in step 17 is a winch for handling cargo.

I'd like to see a photo a little further forward. From the instructions you can see a T shaped device on the forecastle (anchor) deck. That's the lever set for turning the anchor windlass.

Again I can't find a photo of this part of the ship, but the search continues.

The question is where to position those Parts 102. It has to be somewhere forward, paired up behind the rollers of the windlass in between the heads or companionways or whatever those two things are.

GM.

Here are the Revell instructions and another shot of my build with the chain problem. Please tell me (and Dave) how one would correct this issue. All I did was follow the instructions. Revell does provide the windlass. Even with the chain at the farthest points starboard and port on the windlass, still no joy.

Here's a photo I came across for you, Dave.

It is wrong. Here's a little conjecture on my part.

The windlass that raises the anchors is forward under that little anchor deck. I don't remember if it comes with the kit. Campbell's drawing shows the windlass without the chain on it, I think.

But the chain should go into a "spurling" pipe as close behind the windlass as possible, and down into the chain locker. There'd be no good reason, and lots of bad ones, to have it running around the deck. Once the chain comes off the windlass the only force that will stow it below is gravity on the vertical part of the chain between the spurling hole and the top of the stack of chain in the locker. Including a long horizontal run, and the friction of the chain on the deck, only confounds that. Toward the end of raising the hooks, when the stack of chain in the locker gets up towards the underside of the deck, you'd be defeated and the windlass would be piling chain up all over that fore deck.

The spurling pipe usually has a quarter dome scuttle over it, open end facing forward.

I cannot for the life of me find a photo of that part of the deck. Perhaps tourists aren't allowed up there.

Looking at models, FWIW, the closest I could find to what Revell says to do is one where the chains run back past those two companionway covers, and the spurling pipes are sort of to either side of that hatch, spread apart far enough that the chain misses the hatch coaming. 

Without a clear copy of the drawings, I cant see what that hatch is over. If it's a cargo hold, those chains would be in the way down below.

If I were to build the model, I'd set the spurling pipes a short distance behind the windlass and have the chains disappear into them.

Dave,

After having read what the fine modelers on this site say regarding colors for the hull - both above and below the waterline, just do what you think is going to satisfy #one - you.

I'm a little embarrassed to view the up close pictures of my CS now. Heck, I have her in my living room on a side table positioned so it's difficult to view from closer than 7 or 8 feet . At that distance it still seems attractive to me.

I experimented with a weathering technique that probably has no basis in reality but that I thought might look "cool". I think it was Big Jake who made reference to the technique involved for which I am grateful but again, not convinced it would ever happen. My attempt at this technique was just so-so but at 7 or 8 feet ... it's OK.

I thought I'd post one picture of the hatch that the anchor chains go around just to give you a heads up. At least the way mine turned out the chains would be rubbing on the framing for the hatch each time the anchors were raised or lowered. I couldn't figure a way to solve that problem. Maybe it's not much of a "problem" but it bothered me.

Anyway, your thread is going to be better than most of the entertainment on TV so I'll be following along on your build as I usually do for any of your Works In Progress.

Brand new Muntz metal was known as Yellow metal.

I think Dave's color is probably what it looked like brand new without any oxidization.

But as soon as it was put in salt water it tuned a brownish metalic color.  I think it is highly subjective actually.  Dave's looks smart.

I tend to weather my ships so I chose a brownish metalic color.

Rob

Good day Dave,

follow your building with great interest ... in far - far future ...have plan to assemble the same kit :))) may be...:)))

regatding black color... I could suggest start with flat black...but it shouldn't  be" mono" black color... various" dark gray/ brown" may be???..." gloss " You can add any time you want....

and bottom part, color of" munz" metal ... shouldn't be " shiny"... too much...?

I mean., there shouldn' t be too much contrast in shining...?

It kinda also depends on how glossy the lower hull and the rest of the ship will be.  I would say the semi-gloss would help balance the contrast of what could be a glossy copper lower hull and the flat natural wood deck.  

I generally will punt at the end and give the whole ship a coat of artist satin clear before I step the masts.  Then its all the same level of contrast.  Then again, I'm a "dull" person.  

That last one does come as a Tamiya  Acrylic color.

Testors used to make a semi-gloss enamel called Black Chrome.  Hard to find now, though still in some racks.  They make a new one just called Semi-gloss Black, but that is hard to find too.  Just getting added to racks.  Comes in both bottles and spray cans.