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Plastic sails or cloth sails? With a little work ,both can look great!

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  • Member since
    June 2011
  • From: St.Peters,Mo.
Posted by Mark Carroll on Sunday, April 8, 2018 9:43 AM

Does anyone out there have a comment on how to "fix" dented or wrinkled plastic sails?

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, February 18, 2018 11:42 PM

That sounds like a dream come true!

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Derry, New Hampshire, USA
Posted by rcboater on Sunday, February 18, 2018 10:45 PM

CapnMac82

We know, from diaries, logs, and such, that it was very common to fight under just topsails, and typically, fore and main topsails, and a main topgallant.  This meant onnly three sets of braces needed to be manned to trim sails.  Fore-and-aft sails depended upon the wind angle, and wind ahead of the beam was not considered a poor heading.

Now, sometimes the courses were only hoist into clews and bunts, which renderes a three or five lobed sort of shape.  Which could be shaken out by only 4-6 men--and manpower was wanted for guns and the anti-boarding/boarding party.

I get a frownyface every so often when I see sails set unrealistically.  Like staysails set in a way that they catch no wind.  (You set staysails if the wind is too fine for a broad reach, so from a beam reach right around to an upwind tack.)

 

Capn is right here— that was certainly the most common set of sails.  When ships are slugging it out broadside to broadside, you just don’t have the manpower to fight the ship and work a full set of sails. Plus, damage aloft is exacerbated if all sail is set- more of the lines will be under tension/load.

I also notice sails set improperly- like when some are set for sailing off the wind, while others are set for working to windward...!

But I will say that we generally did set the staysails on EAGLE when on a broad reach, they were still effective.  We needed the foreward  sails  to offset the spanker and reduce the need for weather helm.  One thing we did often do when on a broad reach was to clew up the windward side of the main, so it didn’t blanket the foresail.  (we didn’t call them “courses”.) That also helped to balance the helm.

-Bill

Webmaster, Marine Modelers Club of New England

www.marinemodelers.org

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, February 18, 2018 2:30 PM

Also not real useful in combination with a full set of square sails.

It just gets done because it's "in the box".

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Sunday, February 18, 2018 3:02 AM

We know, from diaries, logs, and such, that it was very common to fight under just topsails, and typically, fore and main topsails, and a main topgallant.  This meant onnly three sets of braces needed to be manned to trim sails.  Fore-and-aft sails depended upon the wind angle, and wind ahead of the beam was not considered a poor heading.

Now, sometimes the courses were only hoist into clews and bunts, which renderes a three or five lobed sort of shape.  Which could be shaken out by only 4-6 men--and manpower was wanted for guns and the anti-boarding/boarding party.

I get a frownyface every so often when I see sails set unrealistically.  Like staysails set in a way that they catch no wind.  (You set staysails if the wind is too fine for a broad reach, so from a beam reach right around to an upwind tack.)

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: Jerome, Idaho, U.S.A.
Posted by crackers on Sunday, February 18, 2018 12:02 AM

Steve5, if you go all sails furled, the sails should look like this. Be sure the spars are lowered, not aloft, as if the sail was fully balooned out in a sailing condition.

Happy modeling   Crackers   Surprise

Anthony V. Santos

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, February 17, 2018 10:58 PM

warshipguy

Crackers,

The courses were furled not to prevent shot damage but as a measure to limit the possibility of fire from the cannons during the battle.

Bill

 

Helped the Msrines in the tops see what was going on, too.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Saturday, February 17, 2018 10:04 PM

thank's cracker's I have seen that model before , dafi , sent it to me . there is a modeler on pete coleman's site , doing the victory 1765 . it's absolutely beautiful , I'm following his lead , somewhat less successfully ,  I'm trying . but intend to do differnt sail's , as michael has done his all furled .

http://www.pete-coleman.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&p=21836#p21836

 

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: Jerome, Idaho, U.S.A.
Posted by crackers on Saturday, February 17, 2018 9:43 PM

Steve5, if you have any doubts about sails or rigging, you might consider the 1765 version of the VICTORY laid up in a dockyard with her cannons, yards and mast stackerd along side the model.

Source: Mediaharmonists   Happy modeling   Crackers    Huh?

Anthony V. Santos

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: Jerome, Idaho, U.S.A.
Posted by crackers on Saturday, February 17, 2018 9:08 PM

Good thought Bill, warshipguy, never considered that idea. However, from this sketch by Nicholas Pocock at the NMM, the French 74, CA IRA, is trying to escape her tormentor, H.M.S. AGAMEMNON, with only her course sails during the battle of Cape Noli, on the Ligurian Sea, on March 13, 1795. Since the course sails are closer to the exchange of cannon fire, it would seem to me having then furled would lessen the chance of damage to these sails, which might be the only means of propusion.

Happy modeling   Crackers   Indifferent

Anthony V. Santos

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Saturday, February 17, 2018 9:03 PM

weren't the sail's limited to a certain extent , so they didn't sail too fast past one another ,  so they could at least get a shot off . ??

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Saturday, February 17, 2018 8:41 PM

Crackers,

The courses were furled not to prevent shot damage but as a measure to limit the possibility of fire from the cannons during the battle.

Bill

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Saturday, February 17, 2018 8:18 PM

actually mate , that's not a bad idea , but my victory is from 1765 , but your idea might come in handy in the future , was thinking of doing the trinidad when it was captured by the british !!

steve5

 

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: Jerome, Idaho, U.S.A.
Posted by crackers on Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:23 PM

Steve5, Just a thought, but to add some drama of your model of the VICTORY, you could do your model like this painting by the English marine artist, Geoff Hunt, of the VICTORY breaking the French line of battle at Trafalgar, October 21, 1805. The sails of the VICTORY are shot full of cannon holes while her forcourse, main course and mizzen course sails are furled to prevent shot damage. A diorama of ocean waves can be researched by consulting this FineScale Modeler site. Cannon ball splashes on the ocean surface will add to the drama.

Happy modeling   Crackers   Smile

Anthony V. Santos

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Saturday, February 17, 2018 6:16 PM

very nice work cracker's , what scale was it in mate . did you use wire or twine , around the edge's 

don't know how am going to do my victory , was thing of half and half , like it was coming into harbour .

steve5

 

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: Jerome, Idaho, U.S.A.
Posted by crackers on Saturday, February 17, 2018 6:02 PM

In my personal opinion, sails do make a difference for a ship model, as sails give some life to the model. In my kit model of the Brandenburg warship, FRIEDERICK WILHELM ZU PFERDE, built in 1681 at Lubeck Germany, all the sails were made from silkspan and dyed a light acrylic tan color. This model was donated to the Rupert, Idaho public library several years ago. 

Happy modeling   Crackers   Surprise

 

Anthony V. Santos

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Saturday, February 17, 2018 3:39 PM

Steve,

I mailed it with your Formula 560 glue this morning.

Bill

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Saturday, February 17, 2018 2:35 PM

warshipguy

Steve,

Yes, it is in the current issue.  If you would like, I will send you a copy of the issue. It's a great article that has started me thinking . . .

Bill

 

cheer's bill that would be appreciated

 

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Saturday, February 17, 2018 11:04 AM

I'm picking up a copy today.......

Thanks for the info

Rob

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Saturday, February 17, 2018 8:09 AM

Steve,

Yes, it is in the current issue.  If you would like, I will send you a copy of the issue. It's a great article that has started me thinking . . .

Bill

  • Member since
    June 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:41 AM

Don;

 I found some years back , a wire that handles like thread . It is so limp I thought I had done something wrong . Turns out I didn't , It is used to tie ***-Bones together after Open Heart surgery !

 Just think , besides my Cutty Sark being rigged with it , I am wearing it inside as well . WOW ! T.B.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Saturday, February 17, 2018 6:56 AM

rcboater

I liked the idea in the article about using wire to suspend staysails. I have seen so many Constitution builds with terribly sagging main staysails!

 

Unfortunately, making stays for upper masts requires a pretty fine wire to look right, and it might not be much better than a strong thread.  One problem with thread is that the rigging is often not tensioned very much.  If you do the standing rigging in the right order, you can tension it pretty tight.  Then, paper or other lightweight materials may look okay with thread stays. 

This discussion reminds me how multi-media model building can be.  There was a period when IPMS had the percent of plastic rule when I did not enter their contests because I objected so strongly to that rule.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Derry, New Hampshire, USA
Posted by rcboater on Friday, February 16, 2018 9:53 PM

I liked the idea in the article about using wire to suspend staysails. I have seen so many Constitution builds with terribly sagging main staysails!

Webmaster, Marine Modelers Club of New England

www.marinemodelers.org

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Derry, New Hampshire, USA
Posted by rcboater on Friday, February 16, 2018 9:49 PM
Yes, it is in the current issue- a good one. Probably on newsstands now...

Webmaster, Marine Modelers Club of New England

www.marinemodelers.org

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Friday, February 16, 2018 8:21 PM

I.was thinking of joining again bill . Is it in the current issue

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Friday, February 16, 2018 5:34 PM

Steve,

It is excellent.  The approach it takes is intriguing. The author uses the vacuformed plastic sails found in most kits, and sandwiches these between cloth to give the sails form.  He sews the cloth into beautiful, realistic sails.  Do you have access to FSM? If not, I can send you a copy.

Bill

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Friday, February 16, 2018 3:13 PM

how detailed is it bill .

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Friday, February 16, 2018 8:30 AM

There is a great article in the current issue of FSM that deals with sails.  It is a very long overdue topic.

I also use tissue paper stained with tea on smaller scales, especially when modeling furled sails.

Bill

  • Member since
    June 2011
  • From: St.Peters,Mo.
Posted by Mark Carroll on Friday, February 16, 2018 6:20 AM

That's what this forum is all about! Ideas! What great alternatives and they look great!

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