Trumpeter USS North Carolina 1/350

modelcrazy

 

 

laskdjn

Do photo etch rails go on before or after painting the dazzle camo? 

 

 

 

 

That's personal preference but I like to install railings on the superstructure first before paint. The hull railings tend to break off too easily while handling but I do pre-paint the rails on the tree with the base color before installation. Ship railings are usually a single color as most, as far as I know, are cable and/or chain and are removable. You wouldn't see a color distinction at range anyway.

I could be wrong on this. most of the guys watching will know better that me.

 

How do you mask behind the railing in the super structure? 

laskdjn

Do photo etch rails go on before or after painting the dazzle camo? 

 

That's personal preference but I like to install railings on the superstructure first before paint. The hull railings tend to break off too easily while handling but I do pre-paint the rails on the tree with the base color before installation. Ship railings are usually a single color as most, as far as I know, are cable and/or chain and are removable. You wouldn't see a color distinction at range anyway.

I could be wrong on this. most of the guys watching will know better that me.

Our man GM speaks wisely, and from considerable experience.

Waterline marking (or, in this case, boot topping top & bottom demarkaction) is a topic  of many how-to's and tips-n-tricks articles.

Most come down to finding a scribing tool (carbide scribe, mechanical pencil, pen, what have you) and getting it to a defined level in relationship to the model.

This is where a scaleable set of drawings is very handy.

It's also very handy to have a working base that a person can shim with washers and the like, to get the hull to match the profile drawings.  However, a foot or two of drag (having the after portion of the keel lower than the foreward) is pretty infinitesemal at 1/350 scale.  So a person cannot be faulted (generally) for using the bottom flat of the hull.

Then, it's really just a matter of a flat surface, then a stack of flat stock or shims that elevates the chosen scribe to the first elevation desired.

Classic method involves a machinist's square and a clamp to afix the scribe to same.  Trace the low line first, then adjust and do the upper.  Mask, then paint.

For battleships with a counter-style stern, like that seen on the Dakotas and later classes, that boot topping will have a specific vertical height, but will be considerable wider due to the angle of the stern.  This is also seen on large amphibious ships, too.

Do photo etch rails go on before or after painting the dazzle camo? 

GMorrison

may I suggest a different approach?

As was explained, the topping boundaries are at least in theory a given vertical dimension above and below the waterline.

Which means that the true length measured on the surface increases as the slope of the surface increases from vertical.

This becomes very noticeable at the parts of the hull with any flare. If one uses a constant width of tape centered on the waterline, the boot topping will appear to dive under the stern.

 

 

Right, it looks like a straight line, but it's not due to the contour of the hull. 

May I suggest a different approach?

As was explained, the topping boundaries are at least in theory a given vertical dimension above and below the waterline.

Which means that the true length measured on the surface increases as the slope of the surface increases from vertical.

This becomes very noticeable at the parts of the hull with any flare. If one uses a constant width of tape centered on the waterline, the boot topping will appear to dive under the stern.

There are numerous ways to mark the waterline, and complicating factors. But for a model of a battleship, the goal is to get the boot topping level with the base, the table top and the rest of the world around it.

Mark the top of the boot all the way around. In some places it may be easier to make a series of dashes rather than a line.

Mask above it. Then mask the bottom. Along the sides it can just be scaled at 6 feet or whatever you choose.

At the bow I pick a start point at the very prow and then eyeball it back to the line on the side.

At the stern I flip the hull upside down, and create the mask with lots of small pieces of tape. Again, go with your eye.

Excellent information, thank you.  So I can use 6mm tamiya tape as a mask for the stripe and call it a day as 6mm scales to about 7 feet in 1/350 scale.

I think for the 40mm guns, I'll just build one up and try it and see if it fits.  I don't see why it shouldn't, but who knows, I've seen wierder things in my life.

laskdjn,

Go with what CapnMac82 suggests. I just paint them as closely to whatever picture I can find either in a book on on the Internet. The good captain obviously has a lot more nautical knowledge than I have and, if I were you, I'd defer to his numbers.

laskdjn

how wide should I make the black stripe

The USN term-of-art is "boot topping."  That stripe is to help hide the gunk that washes up to a ship in port and sticks to the side.

In general (very general) USN peacetime boot topping is between 2 and 4 feet wide (scaled to the size of the ship) equally on either side of the design waterline.  Wartime boot-topping expands to 6 to 8 feet wide to accomodate the much wider range of draft change (durin ga shore bombardment, you might well fire off all but a few dozen round of your ammunition, and burn most of your fuel, and eat almost all the stores, making the ship hundred, even thousands of tons lighter).  Also, during wartime, you are more likely to be in scummier harbors, too.

There are exceptions to this, naturally.

The boot topping on USS Wisconsin docked as a museum in Norfolk is around 8-10 feet wide, with 6 or 8 feet out of the water as she presently rides.

Hull numbers are, in peacetime, also scaled to the ship, the shhadowed numbers being from 72 to 120 inches tall.  Wartime hull numbers are unshadowed and 24" tall, period, and the ship's name on the stern painted oer as well.

From that first shot in that video, it seems like the boot stripe is only like 2 feet wide or less, probably less, when looking directly at it from amidship.  Hard to judge dimension from it.

I can't answer the question regarding the 40's in the Eduard "kit", but you may get some idea regarding the boot stripe from this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36P1rV3pDf8

So I'm almost done with the lower hull and I just started the main guns and the 5 inch guns and I thought of two questions.

1) how wide should I make the black stripe between the red and the camo?  I know it varies based on contour, but at the bow of the ship where it's nearly vertical, how wide? 

B)  do the shields for the 40mm guns that come with the eduard kit fit in the little circular cupolas on the deck or do I not use them in lieu of the photo etch? 

Mikeym_us ;

 I guess it's is really a matter of choice here . You see , I did a destroyer in Blue .The 1/350 U.S.S.England . Great little model . Did the decks " Deck Blue" and the Hull etc in "Sea Blue" .Took a while to find the ship on a blue tabletop .

 Ain't never going to do that again . I learned a valuable lesson . Always tint your colors for scale effect . In other words the smaller it is , the lighter the paint needs to be . So , the " disappearing " U.S.S.England " won't happen again in my yard !

Lifecolor does make a weathering system for the ships hull and the wood deck. And from what I've seen of it demonstrated on YouTube it works great.

Tanker - Builder

Wear ?

   I don't have any problems with what you did here . Why are you worrying about it ? Remember , between seawater and foot traffic the blue didn't hold up well !

 Looks okay to me .  T.B.

 

Wear ?

   I don't have any problems with what you did here . Why are you worrying about it ? Remember , between seawater and foot traffic the blue didn't hold up well !

 Looks okay to me .  T.B.

"But with world war 2 vessels, rigging isn't as huge, right?   But basically, just like a plane or tank, but more planning?"

Correct.

That'll work.

This being my first ship, I think I'm gonna forego wood decks, and just do the eduard pe.

Try the wood hunter series of decks it comes with some PE and a long length of Anchor chain. And the deck is pretty thin and are made for Trumpeter kits.

modelcrazy

I've used Tom's several times and yes you do need to resist the urge to pull your hair out sometimes. It just takes more research. Eduard IMO is the easiest since they show exactly which part to replace and where it is.

I have also used wood decks and I like them. Yes, the thickness issue can be a deterrent, but I've noticed that once everything is on you really don't notice it as much. I will wet the plastic deck with water prior to applying the wood decking to cut down on the bubbles. It sounds counterintuitive, but the glue will stick just fine afterward.

As far as rigging, there is a lot more than most think, but most of it can be omitted and still have rigging that looks complete. I will build the superstructure subassemblies first, paint and rigg prior to attaching them to the hull. This helps me from making a mess of things and I work my way out when adding PE or rigging.

I have the Carrol myself and am looking forward to it as soon as I get over my hesitation of that camo scheme. As far as accuracy, once it's done, my wife and I are pretty much the only ones who see it except for the pictures I would put on this and other forums. My step kids and grandkids wouldn't have a clue what the ship was used for or even what era it belonged anyway.

Looking forward to your build 

 

Right now, my build is on pause while I wait for the Eduard photoetch set.  But I'll post pictures once I'm done.  I'm just hoping it's not awful

I've used Tom's several times and yes you do need to resist the urge to pull your hair out sometimes. It just takes more research. Eduard IMO is the easiest since they show exactly which part to replace and where it is.

I have also used wood decks and I like them. Yes, the thickness issue can be a deterrent, but I've noticed that once everything is on you really don't notice it as much. I will wet the plastic deck with water prior to applying the wood decking to cut down on the bubbles. It sounds counterintuitive, but the glue will stick just fine afterward.

As far as rigging, there is a lot more than most think, but most of it can be omitted and still have rigging that looks complete. I will build the superstructure subassemblies first, paint and rigg prior to attaching them to the hull. This helps me from making a mess of things and I work my way out when adding PE or rigging.

I have the Carrol myself and am looking forward to it as soon as I get over my hesitation of that camo scheme. As far as accuracy, once it's done, my wife and I are pretty much the only ones who see it except for the pictures I would put on this and other forums. My step kids and grandkids wouldn't have a clue what the ship was used for or even what era it belonged anyway.

Looking forward to your build 

Mike ;

    I have always like the look of a wood deck in pre or post war ships . It makes them look , Well , more organized . Of course that might be because you did such a good job !

Well; Laskdjn

 For the many ship applications I have , I do find EDUARD a superior product from outside the U.S.A . Locally I do prefer Gold Medal Models products . Both will give startingly great results if you excersize patience in the application thereof .

 I have NEVER used a wood deck . I may try one on a carrier . I understand many were stained deck blue during the war . Why spend extra bucks to paint it deck blue ?

But worth world war 2 vessels, rigging isn't as huge, right?   But basically, just like a plane or tank, but more planning? 

To add to what Bill (GMorrison) said, you have to plan ahead as you always do for armor and aircraft but with, perhaps, more emphasis on the rigging. In general, with floaty things, one must allow for being able to attach rigging to its various points on the vessel. That gets more involved when building a sailing ship model but is pertinent for prop driven shiips as well - especially warships.

I think a lot of it has to do with scale.

There aren't any ship kits much larger than 1/72. Most of the bigger scale ones are 1/96 to 1/144.

And the smaller scales go from /1350 all the way to 1/2400.

Maritime models of boats in scales like 1/48 to 1/64 do compare to aircraft models in some ways.

In other words, it's safe to say that ship models have a lot of really small parts.

So, how is building a model ship different than building a plane or tank, besides the size difference? 

Steve,

It's the Trumpeter 1915.

BTW, Artwox also had a deck blue available if my memory serves me. I can't remember why I chose the regular wood deck... maybe my error in ordering? Don't recall. Anyway the thickness does matter so perhaps Pontos's deck would be a better bet.

Anyway thanks for the kind words.

1943Mike

I'm not a very good model builder but I enjoy the process (when I'm not cursing, taking God's name in vain, on my hands and knees trying to rend a PE part from the carpet monster, etc.). That having been said, I didn't sand off the plastic deck detail on my HMS Dreadnought or USS San Francisco when I put on wood decks. Fortunately the decks didn't compromise the builds by raising the deck height too much. As least I don't remember their having done so.

If you believe that the thickness of the aftermarket wood deck will make the build more difficult by adding its thickness, then by all means sand away. I just didn't find that to be a problem in my "hack" builds where I've used wood decks.

Forgive the photos of the Dreadnought. Just found them in an external HD - thought they were lost after the Photobucket debacle. I'm sure you will see many mistakes but I didn't think the placement of the wood deck over the existing detail made any negative difference.

 

 

Mike,

You don’t give yourself enough credit bud. These are beautifu! I do have to a question though. Is this Dreadnought a Trumpeter or Zvezda?

Steve

laskdjn

My brother asked me to build one for him.  I just got through the hull, that was a bear.  What tips and lessons learned can y'all give me on the rest of the construction?  I had planned on going mostly OOB with the exception of Tom's Modelworks PE set.

 

For PE, I would recommend Eduard or Gold Medal PE over Tom’s. I like Eduard’s instructions and the weight/strength of Gold Medal. Tom’s is fine but not as forgiving as the other two when it comes to multiple attempts at glueing. Each set also has both details and railing In one package.

I would also recommend getting a wood deck for this model as there are three sections to the main deck and the seams can be difficult to hide. Personally, I prefer Pontos decks over ArtWok because the Pontos is a bit thinner and they come with decals for depth markers, etc. and Pontos has a Blue deck for this model.

The downsize with the wooden decks, can be as Bill says, bubbling with humidity, scale effect and the loss of or lessening height of deck details. Bollards, hatches, etc lose their look by jot standing as proud as they should. On the other hand, the edge of the wooden deck makes it easier when you are attaching the railingby giving you an edge to butt the railing up to.

That being said, it is easier now hiding seams with Perfect Plastic Putty since you can clean up excess putty with a wet q-tip, toothpick or a finger. 

Mike Ashey has a building manual on the this model which would be a great thing to have on this build. It’s available on evilBay here:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-350-SCALE-USS-NORTH-CAROLINA-BATTLESHIP-MODEL-MANUAL-BY-MIKE-ASHEY-PUBLISHING/273220005479?hash=item3f9d2e6e67:g:qd8AAOSwS3Za~ZSp

Hope this helps a bit. 

Steve