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Sails

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  • Member since
    June 2011
  • From: St.Peters,Mo.
Sails
Posted by Mark Carroll on Sunday, August 12, 2018 3:33 PM

I'm curious,what method do you guys use to sew sails to the yard arms?

  • Member since
    June 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Sunday, August 12, 2018 4:06 PM

Hi;

 In the rare case I build a ship with square or fore and aft sails I do this . The sail first has to be the right material .I don't like the Solid or vacu0form sails .I think they look to fake . Now if you use silkspan ( The same material used to cover stick and tissue aircraft .)

 When you prepare the sail material with a liquified white glue solution and stain , then you'll want to do this . Get a tool for making metal wire coils . Make about and inch or wire just slightly bigger than the yard and or Boom and then lay them out on a piece of tile and solder the  resulting round fittings together .

  There is another way . You can make the coils .Cut eack circle out .insert it in the sail material and super glue it closed . By using the SOLDERED circles , slide them on the spars or booms and then fasten the sail to them using thread and the tiniest knots attaching the sail material to the rings .

  This is what I do . It is NOT the only way to do it . Don Stauffer probably would be more help here .  T.B.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, August 12, 2018 4:50 PM

-from Model Ship World.

It's called a roband. You can get a little less fancy and slip the thread through a hole in the head of the sail, knot it. Get all of those on the sail. Then tie the ends together one at a time around the yard.

Easy lazy solution- thread through the sail, wrap around the yard, tie.

Don't like the method of sewing the sail to the yard with a running stitch. It's prototype on small sailboats, but not ships.

For a fore and aft sail, tie the robands around the stay. Or set up the mast with sail rings and tie the robands to them.

Leave some ends hanging.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    June 2011
  • From: St.Peters,Mo.
Posted by Mark Carroll on Sunday, August 12, 2018 4:56 PM

Is this roband the way its done on real ships? I have been sewing mine right to the yards with thread about 1/4" apart and the sail doesn't hang below the yard arm but about half way on it.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, August 12, 2018 5:04 PM

Yes, that's how it's done. If you tie the roband together below the yard, then tie the ends together around the yard, it will create a gap.

Modern sailing ships, starting in the early 19th century, often had an additional feature called a jackstay.

Think of it as a metal rod the length of the yard, passing through eyebolts. Usually it would be on the front of the yard, somewhere between horizontal and vertical axis. The robands got bent to that, which was faster. There, the head of the sail would be as you say up on the yard.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Monday, August 13, 2018 8:34 AM

Depends on the era and which sail.  For and aft are often different than square, jib sails different yet.  But the methods shown above cover it- just have to get it right for sail and era.  And, for me, depends on era.  For smaller scales, like smaller than 1:192 I simplify a lot- for older sails just simple loop and knot.

 

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    June 2011
  • From: St.Peters,Mo.
Posted by Mark Carroll on Monday, August 13, 2018 11:54 AM

The way I was sewing on these sails was a PITA. It took forever. I lay mine out with a ruler and with a small  punch I put a hole every 1/4"  and  I would poke a needle threader through the hole and pull the thread through and repeat all the way down the yard and tie off at the end. To make things easier I got a 2 1/2" long needle the thickness of my hole punch and cut the very tip of the eye off and in that gap of the eye I would super glue the tip of  an 18" length of thread into the eye, this way I could sew one hole right after the other with just a single thread and it works great and is much faster. When I got done sewing I would just cut the thread out of the eye of the needle and your ready to put in new thread again for the next sail. I just started putting on my first cloth sails (pre made from HiSmodel)and I'm not impressed. The quality is supurb but all the sails have a straight bottom where all the ones I've seen have a curved bottom (including the ones that came with the ship) and they are a little big,plus it's hard to get a good "billow" in them and keep it there.I'm going to experiment with some things with these cloth sails but if anybody has some input I would more than welcome it! I love working with the plastic ones that come with the kit more than I do these cloth ones and I know most don't agree because plastic is plastic but if you do it right with weathering and such you can make them look pretty good AND they have a built in "billow".

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, August 13, 2018 12:10 PM

I can't tell for sure, but are you using one piece of thread in a running stitch from one end of the yard to the other?

That isn't a very attractive approach and as I said IMO is only accurate for some smaller boats.

Next best thing is to tie each roband, every 1/4" or so depending on the scale of the model. 

Even better is to tie each roband to itself at the head of the sail, then tie each to the spar.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    June 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Monday, August 13, 2018 1:06 PM

Don ;

 You hit the nail on the head on smaller scales .That's what I do too . T.B.

  • Member since
    June 2011
  • From: St.Peters,Mo.
Posted by Mark Carroll on Tuesday, August 14, 2018 12:13 AM

Thanks for the info! I will try that approach.

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Tuesday, August 14, 2018 12:29 AM

this guy is as good as anyone mark

http://karopka.ru/forum/forum190/topic10341/?PAGEN_1=79

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Tuesday, August 14, 2018 9:25 AM

steve5

this guy is as good as anyone mark

http://karopka.ru/forum/forum190/topic10341/?PAGEN_1=79

 

Thanks, Steve- that is a great resource!

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    June 2011
  • From: St.Peters,Mo.
Posted by Mark Carroll on Tuesday, August 14, 2018 6:13 PM

Isn't that Kirills ship? Awesome stuff.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Tuesday, August 14, 2018 7:15 PM

Becasue it's fiddly work, and the era matters, I tie the robands --which fore resons of scale might be a clove hitch of thread--arounf the yard, and fiddle with the spacing until I'm happy.  If I'm concerned about it, I'll snip out a gauge from paper card stock to unify the spacing.

With the yard ready, bring the sail material up as near as can, then transfer the band locations to pre-punch the sail.

For 1800s era, the clove hitch is knotted at the top of the yard, spritsail topmast era, center of the front of the yard; erailer than that, underneath.

Then, I work from center of the yard outboard.  Bringing one tail of the clove hitch up through the sail, and bending it off using the other tail.  Teeny dab of glue once everything is knotted up tight.  Then trim the bits when the glue dries.  (new, sharp, cuticle nippers can be your friend here.)

Interestingly, the high -on-the-yard fixing of the sail has aerodynamic benefits.  The yard acts as a sort of leading edge slat, helping keep the air spilling over the yard more laminar to the sail.

Note, too, that the cut (and the billow) of sails varied between eras, and between navies.  Additionally, mast position matters for sail cut, too.  The topsail often needs more "arch" in its foot so as to clear the forestay(s).

Far too many vacuform sails are as fanciful as Heller rigging diagrams. . .

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Saturday, August 18, 2018 4:19 AM

cheer's captmac82 , I'm getting closer to mine , nice to see how other guy;s do it

 

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Saturday, August 18, 2018 4:32 AM

Don Stauffer

 

 
steve5

this guy is as good as anyone mark

http://karopka.ru/forum/forum190/topic10341/?PAGEN_1=79

 

 

 

Thanks, Steve- that is a great resource!

 

he is an incedible modeler don

 

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Monday, March 18, 2019 8:30 AM

I hope this thread is OK to add sail images in.

I spent some time working on adding more sails...namely the jib sails.  Main sails are bent by using metal jackstays on the wooden yards.

Coming along.....

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Monday, March 18, 2019 8:39 AM
  • Member since
    March 2018
  • From: Chicago suburbs
Posted by Luvspinball on Monday, March 18, 2019 11:00 AM

This image was edited from another image.  Shows how to tie the roband.

roband

Bob

 

Bob Frysztak

Luvspinball

Current builds:  Revell 1/96 USS Constitution with extensive scratch building

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 4:02 PM

Adding the mizzen sails   " target="">

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 4:11 PM

gee you do some nice work .

 

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Tuesday, April 16, 2019 8:03 AM

Working the sails detail " target="">

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Tuesday, April 16, 2019 8:07 AM

closer detail of the jibs and foresails " target="">

  • Member since
    July 2006
Posted by Michael D. on Tuesday, April 16, 2019 8:56 AM

Outstanding work!!, very convincing.Yes

 

Michael D

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Wednesday, April 17, 2019 8:26 AM

Sails don't have to be hard...these are made from simple copier paper.

With sail pannel lines drawn on both sides, copied, then cut, banded, clews added and then painted.  Add some reef point made from white nylon paintbrush bristles....add buntlines..then bent to the yard.

Sails are formed prior to painting with spray paint.

Just that easy and there you are.

Thanks for the nice compliments.

Models ships should have sails replicated....its what moves them through the water.

They are just as important as any other element of a sailing ship.

 

Rob

  • Member since
    April 2019
Posted by skir4d on Thursday, April 18, 2019 11:28 AM

If you really want to know how square rigged vessels were worked, then I would suggest Harlands "Seamanship in the Age of Sail", and for the rigging itself then Biddlecombe's "The Art of Rigging". I do not believe that Harlands has been reprinted, but Biddlecombe's has, both are available on the web.

Jack

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Tuesday, July 16, 2019 3:46 PM

And from the stern.. " target="">

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, July 16, 2019 4:56 PM

Paper.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

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