USS Edwin A Howard DE-346 project- progress update 4/4 p.2

Wow, that's quite a personal connection.

stikpusher

How do you say no to that?

You don't!

I've never watched you (or anyone else, that I can remember) build a ship here. I hope you do a WIP.

No Greg, I sure could not turn that request down. I had already offered to build a kit of one of the Perry Class FFGs that he served on in the Gulf. His ship was assigned to assist with USS Stark during that incident. That will be another build for another time. But yes, I will be doing a WIP thread on this project, and here is the first bit...

The hull had some very pronounced weld lines, as do the decks and bulkheads.

So I sanded them down a bit. In photos of Butler Class DEs, the weld lines are visible, so I just toned them down a bit by sanding

And again after examining every photo on Navsource of Butler and Rudderow Class DEs, and finding none visible, I decided to sand off the deck weld seam lines, and thin down the thickness on some of the deck fittings. I also sanded off the anchor chains, drilled out their openings, and filed the slots where the anchors sit on the deck. All your Navy types please forgive me for not knowing the proper terms.

It looks a bit rough now, but I’m sure that it will look better after primer and paint later on...

If you are open to any advice, I'd be happy to offer some.

Blue Jacket of course makes an exquisite Samuel B. Roberts, if I ever saw one on sale I'd grab it. I looked at their site to see if they sell the instructions, which are always worthwhile. No luck.

Chances are though if one had that kit they'd want to build it as, well, the Samuel B. Roberts.

The ship camo database indicates that during the war she only was painted in Measure 22, like your photo. That's an easy one.

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/dd/de-684/300-ep/ep-index.html

Hi,

It looks like you are off to a good start.  Don't forget to also fill in the "depression" above the props that Lindberg added so that you could fit a bigger prop (if you wanted to motorize the kit).

PF

GM, any tips or advice will be welcome. I just ask that itnpertain to this kit and making it look like the Howard. I am set and off on this one, no turning back. Thanks for that link to the Roberts build of this kit, I had seen it before. 

PF, I was wondering about that depression and will take care of that on the next session, along with the motorized prop shaft opening. Which now makes me wonder, did these ships have twin rudders, or only the single rudder as in the kit. The line drawings that I have are not clear on that feature. Only side and overhead views, no head on or astern views. 

I built the 1/302 scale Taney kit a few months ago.   Rather than try to remove all the clunky, oversized detail on the deck, I made a replacement deck from .040 in. Sheet plastic, and added detail to it.  Some was scratchbuilt, some was aftermarket.  The Alliance Models 1/350 scale Destroyer and Cruiser sized bitts looked perfect on board.

ModelMonkey has a great 1/300 5” gun turret, will be much nicer than the kit one. (I found it too late to use on my model.)

Here’s the link to my build here on FSM....

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/7/t/180370.aspx

Thanks for the heads up on the 5” turrets RC. I a.ready grabbed a pair for this. Along with some 3-D printed 1/300 40mm twin Bofors, 20mm Oerlikons, the triple torpedo tube mounts, and some Carley Floats. 

The replacement 5" gun rooms are a key thing. It's nice to see that 3D folks have them.

The Revell Sullivans destroyer kit had somewhat better ones, but yours look right.

The Butlers had twin screws and twin rudders. Look at other models online and you'll see the set up.

I'd immediately cut off the splinter shields. The PE from Tom's or wherever you get the railing has a frame around the outside that will give you brass sheet to make new ones.

I also second the idea to just make a new deck. Ship modelers have been doing that with Revell since the Campbelltown.

It saves a lot of trouble and cures most ills.

Paul Budzik's process for recreating hull panels using spray primer is a good technique for dealing with the over-sized weld bead panels on the old DeLong kit

https://youtu.be/xXbmPilmBWA

The Floating Drydock's plan eBook for the Cannon/Edsall class, while not directly applicable to your Butler build, will answer many questions.   Included, on page 167, the size, shape, and location of the rudders and prop struts

http://floatingdrydock.com/books.html  item DE129-PB listed at $25.95.   Well worth it.

Hi Stik !

 Listen ,I always use the U.S.S.Buckley model by Revell as my go to for projects like this .

   Yes the ships were different,but this kit will work.

  Plus it's large enough to really get the details right .  T.B.

Thanks for all the heads ups guys. The idea for replacing the deck splinter shields with PE fret framing sounds ideal. If anything comes to mind, please let me know. If I use it, thank you. If I disregard it, please do not be offended. I do have limitations now of budget and timeline. Not to mention not a whole lot of experience in multi media ship projects. Especially requiring such work as this one. But it is for my friend in his Great Uncle‘s honor, so I will do my best with what I have.

On another site where I posted this project, I was pointed to a great 1/96 build of one of these, and it is most thorough and accurate, answering many of my questions. 

Navsource image of sister-ship USS Key DE-348 (may not hot link -- Navsource sometimes works, other times it doesnt. Go to the site and look around).  

You may need to go back to Shapeways for some more armament.   Hedgehog launcher aft of #1 5-inch gun under the 40mm overhang.  Ready service lockers P&S adjacent to it.  8x depth charge K guns with racks at the waist P&S.  2X depth charge roll-off racks at the stern.    If not available in 300 scale, contact the designer and see if they can rescale it for you.

USS George Davis DE-357 on Navsource has a good deck layout shot, immediate post war.  The torpedo bank was landed but uou can easily see the mounting point

Thank you Ed. My PE set comes with the K gun and depth charge racks, so I’m not worried there. I just need to come up with some styrene rod for the the charges themselves. Not a problem there, the local railroad hobby shop carries the full assortment of Evergreen strip and rod stuff. I was looking at 3-D printed hedgehog throwers and searchlights. That will take care of some of the kit shortfalls. One thing at a time... I went thru my ship spares and kits today for excess parts that will help and came up with stuff there too.

One detail I have yet to figure out... sometime between DE-341 and DE-348, the bridge top opening went from being straight across, as in the kit, to having a step back on the starboard side. Howard is DE-346 and none of the photos on Navsource show definitivly when the change was made. 

stikpusher

some styrene rod for the the charges themselves

At this scale, it's probably not an issue, but ASW had changed by the time these ships were in the fleet.

The K guns (and usuall the next two reloads) were set up with "streamlined" 350# DC, with straight 500# after those.  (Stern cans were never streamlined--blowing off one's own stern made for complicated After Action Reports).

You wanted to drop an oval pattern of DC.  So, you got up to 30 kts (about 3000'/minute; 50'second) rolled 2 from the stern, waited 2-3 seconds and popped two from K guns, waited 2-3 more seconds popped two more K's, then, 2-3 seconds, rolled two more.  With Shallow Mid-depth, and Deep the basic three depth settings on 500# DC (later ones would gain a QA (Quick-Acting) and XD (extra Deep) settings).

So, this was pored out upon on paper with all of the vector match laid out to achieve Time-On-Target based on possible contact types.

The faster sinking side DC were because the most typical way for a sub to evade a DC attack is to turn to one side or the other, so as to take the length of the sub out of the long axis of the DC oval.

Knowing when to turn was part of the skill set of a sub CO.  Sonar of the day shut down about 18-20kts from cavitation and water noise overcoming the listening head.  And, you wanted speed laid on before 1.75 tons of (4x500 + 4x350) explosive detonated 50, 100, or 150' below your ship.

Interesting about the depth charge pattern,  but the ASW kill record held by the USS England (DE635) of 6 in about 2 weeks, were all due to Hedgehog attacks.  

The received vertical sonar depression angle of the target was used along with the known sink rate of the Hedgehog mortars to determine the range offset to launch these ahead thrown weapons.  Speed was not as important so that a creeping attack could be made.   Also to the point that these were contact fuzed warheads of relatively light weight (compared to a depth charge) minimized the effect of a weapon detonating under the keel 

edit duplicate post

Remember the part in Cruel Sea where, after Compass rose is torpedoed, Erickson and the 1st mate defuse all of the DC's on the rack before the ship sinks?

Well, the basic shapes of the kit are close enough. But the kit just begs for some enhancements and TLC.  I would love to see the three Rudderows that you have built Nino.

PM's on the way with a few photo's.

If you can't find a good reference to prove the Bridge layout for the Howard, I rather like the bridge with the Starboard & Port side walls at a different depth into the open bridge area. It gives a lot more room on the port side to add some details for interest. 

   Nino

P.S.  Try for brass masts.  Somebody will be picking this model up to get a closer look- you know that.  Maybe hollow brass rod. It would be easier to assemble than solid. choosing the best spot for the transition is key.

3/25/19  Edited for clarity regarding the open Bridge.

Got it and thank you. After pouring over the photos for the past two nights at work, I’m gonna go with the cut back on the bridge. And add some stuff in there for interestof course.

and I will give the brass masts a go too. I have some ideas on how to approach that and will do some practice work first.

i don’t think that the model will be handled much as my friend already has a display spot picked out, along with the actual ship memorabilia, and Great Uncle’s stuff too. So a case is probably in order. But I am just planning a wood stand for now, which leads to the question, where do you ship guys find those fancy looking brass mounting posts?

Blue Jacket sells them, as does Model Shipways.

I rifle the lamp parts drawers at Ace.

GMorrison

 

I rifle the lamp parts drawers at Ace.

 

Thats just my style... and Ace is right by my barber shop...

Too bad the package went in the mail this morning.   I could have thrown in a couple of cut down lamp finials. 

My procedure to prepare Ace lamp finials (YMMV): 

Check the electrical parts drawers at Ace for loose lamp  parts, not carded

While at Ace also get a 1/4-27 NF bolt  Finial internal thread is not standard coarse   With hack saw, cut head off bolt   Discard head

Clamp finial top ball in drill press vice or use Vice Grip pliers.  Dont worry about marring the ball because you will cut it off later.  Drill through hole from bottom though top ball.  Drill carefully to not punch through side of finial. 

Thread finial onto bolt (you need a handle at this point).  I usually chuck the bolt & finial in my drill, turn it on, and carefully bring hack saw in contact with spinning finial.   Also while spinning polish with some steel wool.  Remove from handle and spray with clear gloss to prevent the brass from tarnishing   

You now have a pedestal which you can pass a smaller screw/bolt through for a semi-permenant attachment  

Also available may be some lamp shade risers.   These look like finials but they have a male threaded end. Remember that 1/4-27 NF thread?  Try to find a nut to match, i haven’t not even in the electrical parts bins.  You may be able to find a tap and die that works   Or you can prepare them the same as a finial

Epoxy a nut on the inside of the hull before attaching the deck. Insert a bolt through the mounting board and finial into the epoxied nut

There is a group building the ships of Taffy 3 in 1/96th scale.  The website is:  https://taffy3modelships.weebly.com/   Most of the models are being built on fiberglass hulls, and are radio controlled.  

There are a couple pictures of the DE models in progress.

I build most of my ships on a temporary base that was described to me by one of the modelers.

I actually have several.

It's a long piece of pine board, maybe 16" x 6" nominal.

There's a piece about 6" long by the same width screwed upright at one end. That allows you to lay the base on its side, which is really useful.