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Cutty Sark 1/96 Revell

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  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, August 18, 2020 9:06 AM

And, the vikings had a nice device on the stays like a quick release to swing the yard way around.

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Tuesday, August 18, 2020 9:01 AM

CapnMac82

 

There are some papers out which suggest that our "historical knowledge" is colored (NPI) by preserved ships.  Whic hwould have been kept in much more static of conditions, and where decreasing maintenance was a goal.

No PhDs awarded on this, yet.  And, this is modeling, a given modeler may do as they wish.

 

There was a discussion years ago on this group about the color of tarred standing rigging- some claimed tarred rope was dark brown rather than black.  I visited the Niagara replica in Duluth a few years ago, taking pics of rigging.  Talked to a crewperson who was involved in the build.  I noticed the tarred rigging was very black, and mentioned the debate.  She said it was dark brown after putting the tar on, but after a few days in the sunlight it turned black.

Got nice shots of lanyards too.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Monday, August 17, 2020 5:07 PM

There's scholarly debate on lanyards.  As speed became more of an issue, the need to sail on more points of the compass mean having to crank yards right around for various points of sail.  Which menat being able to slack off any number of standing rigging lines on an individual basis.  Which suggests that lanyards were kept as flexible as possible.  (Suggests, not proves.)

There are some papers out which suggest that our "historical knowledge" is colored (NPI) by preserved ships.  Whic hwould have been kept in much more static of conditions, and where decreasing maintenance was a goal.

No PhDs awarded on this, yet.  And, this is modeling, a given modeler may do as they wish.

Sails were stropped to the forward jackstay (when two are fitted), typically one eyelet per sail panel.  For larger sails on larger vessels the strop might be fine line with an eye in either end, and the eyes siezed in marline.  For lesser sails, the strop migh be of marline alone siezed in 7/5 fashion (7 turns through the eye and around the jackstay, then 5 turns to close it).  This will be tough sledding to replicate at this scale.

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Monday, August 17, 2020 4:43 PM

Fantastic rope work and mods....I do have to wonder why you are choosing to use tan rope for the deadeye lanyards and bullseye lanyards. These members were weathered by coating them in a tar like substance to protect them from rot. Lanyards were NOT running rigging, but part of the standing rigging...and generally once set they stayed that way unless tragedy struck or serious adjustments were called for. Black lanyards would have been more atypical. Rob

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Thursday, August 13, 2020 4:32 PM

I have to plead malt deprivation is to blame.

(And to trying to use words which would easily translate into non-english languages)

And I know more Burns than Rob Roy, sadly.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, August 12, 2020 9:45 PM

Well, my lad...

Nannie Dee really either seduced Tam o' Shanter, or at least bewitched him.

Her chemise was not only short, but "too short". That's up to your imagination.

He was riding his horse Meg, and barely made it to the river Doon, which witches could not cross.

But not before she grabbed a chunk of Meg's tail.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Wednesday, August 12, 2020 4:16 PM

The studding sail booms (often rendered as "stun'sail" from sailor use in English) are generally mounted above the top elevation of the yard, and forward of its leading edge.

This allows the studding sails to "fly" over the sail of the yard they are upon.

Back to topping lifts.  One of the important things to remember is that the lifts were meant to support the ends of the yards when the yards were lowered.  When a yard was raised up, the lifts went slack.

On the courses, they were fixted at the mast, in Cutty Sark's case in an iron band on the mast, rather than in jeer blocks.  If memory serves (it may not) the course yards have a chain from the top diagonally down to the yard crane.

With that support in place, and the sail creating lift, the yard lifts could be slacked off to prevent chafing to need.  Square sails on spars gnerate lift by resembling aircraft wings tipped up vertically, that lift is considerable.

Cutty Sark's lower yards used rather a lot of chain, which would be very fine stuff, the sort of thing found on 1/600 or 1/700 Photo Etch as anchor chain.

Now, if you want to tease folks, the actual figurehead carried a frayed bit of rope in the out-stretched hand. 

This goes back to the Rob Roy poem about how Rob Roy seduced a young witch clad in only a short chemise ("cutty sark" ins Scot's-English) out of her pony.  Rob Roy rides off with his prize and the witch is left with nothing but a handful of the pony's tail after cahsing him.

  • Member since
    October 2019
Posted by Bruma on Wednesday, August 12, 2020 3:21 PM

Hello everyone. 

Small updates: the fore lower yard should be completed! (or at least I hope so…)

Tyre black with airbrush and dry brush in grey oil paint for details.

Blocks and foot ropes should be completed too. 

 

 2020-08-12_09-16-00 by Marco, su Flickr

 

 2020-08-12_09-16-20 by Marco, su Flickr

 

 2020-08-12_09-14-44 by Marco, su Flickr

 

 

Now I need to know how to fix sails to the jackstay… 

Hunderhill shows some details but I can’t figure out how exactly they where fitted.

Another doubt is about the color of the thread to be used: shoul I consider it running rigging?

Any help is really appreciated.

  • Member since
    October 2019
Posted by Bruma on Wednesday, July 15, 2020 3:56 PM

Hello everyone.

Time for updates on my old Cutty Sark! Both anchors are now secured in their places. I have also tried to reproduce the release mechanism on the cathead as shown by Longridge.

 

2020-05-14_04-00-50[/url] by Marco[/url], su Flickr

 

Next goes the bowsprit, which is now almost completed. 

I have added the rollers for the fore topmast stay (I still have to add the covers) and secured all the jib boom guy, martingale stay, jib stay, fore topgalland stay and flying jib stay. 

The fore royal stay is still loose while the other can be tightened if needed in the future. 

I still have to add the footropes.

 

CuttySarkBowspritSideView by Marco, su Flickr

 

CuttySarkBowsprit by Marco, su Flickr

 

cuttySarkBowView by Marco, su Flickr

 

Here you have a detail of the scratch build hearts and rollers.

Hearst and rolley by Marco, su Flickr

 

CuttySarkHearts by Marco, su Flickr

 

The fore mast is now in place, glued and secured by the shrouds. All shrouds are tightened but not glued yet, in order to be able to adjust the tension if needed.

Note that the royal backstay are still not in place.

 

 

CuttySarkForeDeadeyes by Marco, su Flickr

 

After securing the mast, it was the yards time.

The ones provided by the kit are flexible and full of fanatasy details, while some other important feature are completely missing.

So I have decideded to try to build them from scratch.

 

Here you heve the fore lower yard:

 

CuttySarkForeLowerYard by Marco, su Flickr

 

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2jmvubk] YardDetails by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/152147651@N05/]Marco[/url], su Flickr

 

The stunsail booms are just dry fitted. I will remove them in order to pain the yard.

This is the first time I try to work with wood and metal to scratch build something so pleas be forgiving for the far from perfect quality.

 

The yard dry fitted on the fore mast:

 

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2jmrjzA] CuttySarkForeLowerYardDryFit by Marco, su Flickr

 

Lastly, a quick test: since I would like to display the Cutty Sark under sail, I need to find a convincing way to reproduce the billowing sails.

After some failed test with paper (I was unable to get the typical double curved shape, both on horizontal and vertical axis), I made some attempt with fabric.

 

Here is a quick test on the fore royal sail:

 

 SailTest by Marco, su Flickr

 

I’m quite happy with the shape but not with the thickness and the visible plot of the fabric, witch is out of scale.

But as it is now, this one is the least of the bad.

 

That’s all, comments and suggestions are very welcome and as usual sorry for my bad English!

 

 

 

Marco

  • Member since
    February 2018
  • From: North Carolina, USA
Posted by Model Monkey on Sunday, March 22, 2020 4:00 PM

Superb!

  • Member since
    October 2019
Posted by Bruma on Saturday, March 21, 2020 3:36 AM

thank you all for the kind words, it is nice to know that someone is following my efforts! 

rwiederrich

Wonderful job on rigging the new shrouds/lanyards and the small detail corrections.....I love super detailing.

 

I love it too, but it takes a huge amount of time... I hope they will give an extra touch to the model. 

And even if they don't, I like to work on them! :)

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Thursday, March 19, 2020 10:02 AM

Looking great!

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    January 2012
  • From: Atlanta Metro, Georgia
Posted by fright on Wednesday, March 18, 2020 12:24 PM

Beautiful work that are doing with this kit!

Robert O

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Wednesday, March 18, 2020 8:26 AM

Wonderful job on rigging the new shrouds/lanyards and the small detail corrections.....I love super detailing.

  • Member since
    October 2019
Posted by Pete G on Tuesday, March 17, 2020 1:38 PM

Fantastic work, and great pictures. Thanks for sharing your build! 

  • Member since
    October 2019
Posted by Bruma on Tuesday, March 17, 2020 9:07 AM

Hello everyone!
It's been a while since my last post but my Cutty Sark is still on my work bench.
I finally completed the upper ratlines on all the three masts.
After a lot of tests, I decided to use clove hitches. It was a long job, but in the end I'm quite satisfied. I tried to pay attention to keep an even spacing and to maintain the right scale.
This is the main mast:

 IMG_7957 copy by Marco, su Flickr

 

Then I switched my attention to the martingale.
The one provided is bulky, out of scale and incorrect, so I decided to work on it. Copper wire bent and pressed and this is the comparison: original under and modified above:

 

 2020-03-17_10-41-45 by Marco, su Flickr

 

 

The catheads suffer the same problems, so they received the same treatment. Again the new one is on top:

 

 2020-03-17_10-43-11 by Marco, su Flickr

 

 

Now I'm working on the bowsprit.
The rigging plan provided by the kit is largely simplified, so I'm doing my best to fill the gap:

 2020-03-17_11-14-09 by Marco, su Flickr

 

Lastly, after many close up, a global image to show the entire ship:

 

 IMG_7958 copy by Marco, su Flickr

 

Please feel free to comment and to point out errors. This is my first ship model and I need all the possible help!

 

Thank you! 

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Monday, December 16, 2019 2:46 PM

https://regenaxe.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/cutty-sark-main-mast-and-ensign.jpg

 

Bruma...you can easily see the contact of the lift and the fore shroud on the mizzen mast.

I wonder why they designed it so close...and this is when the yard is not in tack..which would be even more obvious of an occlusion.

Anyway...it's nice to see you fervently persuing the most accurate build possible.  I appreciate your efforts and study.

 

Rob

  • Member since
    March 2019
  • From: Post Falls, Idaho
Posted by Sigep Ziggy on Friday, December 13, 2019 7:30 PM

Bruma,

Thank you so much! That is what I needed and I will practice as you suggested. I will post the results.

Shane

your shipmate,

Ziggy

 

  • Member since
    October 2019
Posted by Bruma on Friday, December 13, 2019 6:44 PM

Thank you both for join the conversation.

CapnMac82

Yes, they are the jackstay.
I did my home work and after I build them I finally discovered what they are supposed to to and why they are there.
I'm learning alot on the way, whitc is fine, I just hope not to do too many mistakes meanwhile.
The debate around the lifts is still partially open, but I'm quite sure that the main yard are supported by the lifts, they are clearly visible here: 

https://live.staticflickr.com/7306/8732718837_4bf58c7458_b.jpg

 or here:

https://regenaxe.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/cutty-sark-main-mast-and-ensign.jpg

CapnMac82

Course and topsail yards ought have double jackstays on them, if memory serves, too.

I will check on longridge, thank you for the advices! 

 

Sigep Ziggy

I would love to know how you painted your deck and masts the wood color.  I have stripped all my previous paint from my Cutty's decks and masts and would like to copy your style and repaint them.

 

 

There was a brief explanation on te previous page, I copy and paste it here:

 

I paint the deck with a uniform clear brown acrylic color, and I shaded it with oil paint, applied as a filter. 

At this stage the color was too warm for my taste, so I applied a higly diluted layer of acrylic brown (deck tan if memory serves me well) to make it less saturated and uniform. 

Lastly, with a soft dark pencil, I brought back all the fine details. 

and I add some more details hoping to be helpfull:

the brown color is usually tamiya  xf52, xf59 or similar, depending on the needs. Note that they are matte colors. 

 

The oil wash is usually a burnt umber. Dilution is the key, make some test and you will be able to control the final result. 

Just be carefull: I thinned them with Humbrol thinner but it is still prety aggressive on the acrilics. It qold be better to coate them woth a matte varnish, but in the end I was able to avoid this steb just by beeng extra carefull when wiping out the oil excess.

I hope the process is understandable even with my bad english. 

If more explanation are needed, you will be welcome! 

 

  • Member since
    March 2019
  • From: Post Falls, Idaho
Posted by Sigep Ziggy on Tuesday, December 10, 2019 8:27 AM

Burma,

I would love to know how you painted your deck and masts the wood color.  I have stripped all my previous paint from my Cutty's decks and masts and would like to copy your style and repaint them.

your shipmate,

Ziggy

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Sunday, December 8, 2019 9:05 PM

Ok, fickle memory is being fickle.  But, I have ths memory that Cutty Sark had steel course yards, which were not fitted with diagonal lifts, but had vertical lifts passing through the ends of the fxed lower topsail yard, and was served by chain falls.

But, that could be faulty memory.  Mauch as I cannot remember if the topsail yards were metal or not.

Course and topsail yards ought have double jackstays on them, if memory serves, too.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Sunday, December 8, 2019 8:58 PM

Bruma
main mast and the mizzen mast have a sort of railing on the stern side

Those are the "jackstays" that support the leach (forward leading edge) of the Spencer (mainmast) sail, and for the same edge of the Spanker (mzzen mast).

Both the Spencer and Spaanker on Cutty Sark has fixed gaffs (the uppermost spar supporting their sails), and the sals were stowed by Brailing them up to the gaf and jackstay and lashng them into a neat bundle.

The foot of the SPencer s made fast at the bottom of its jackstay.  The Spanker is made fast to its boom.

The Spencer was used to improve sailing performance gong to windward, the Spanke was used to assist n steering.

  • Member since
    October 2019
Posted by Bruma on Sunday, December 8, 2019 6:32 PM

Thank you both for your kind words about the model.

I really appreciate.

I build models for my own satisfaction and to better understand how this marvel works, but surely having someone that share the adventure and support the effort is an incredible boost! 

Now I think that it is al least dafe to say the the problem was presentm so I'm not so afraid to show the lifts bended by the shrouds, I think I will go in this direction, maybe moving the lift block a little bit ahead. 

 

Here's a small update:

 2019-12-09_01-20-00 by Marco, su Flickr

 

Top-gallant shrouds installed, topmast backstay, top-gallant backstory, top-gallant stay prepared. All on the mizzen mast.

I would like to do as much work as possible while the masts are still not glued.

I know, not a big update, but a lot of work and researches behind it.

I discovered, for instance, that the stay is the first to be placed (lower position on the mast), then on top the shrouds, and, above all, the backstay.

I still need to find out if the lifts are in between, on top or at the bottom of the stack.

Those lifts are upsetting me more than once...

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Thursday, December 5, 2019 8:38 AM

From what I gather, the lifts purchase blocks were relocated forward of the main mast to the doubling cap of the topgallant mast.  Still some images of the Ferriera(AKA)(when she was owned by the Portuguese), shows there were chafing ribbon on the lifts as they were probably in contact with the forward top shroud when the yard was in tack.  Wanting to keep things a s clean as possible....and since the rigging is numerous, I chose to run the lift between the first and second shrouds.  Among the vast array of rigging detail...it falls on blind eyes.

Your version is very impressive and I'm enjoying following along.

Rob

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Wednesday, December 4, 2019 12:25 PM

Bruma,

I should have commented on how impressive I think your build is. You're doing a fine job - way above my pay grade!

As to the chafing, other modelers with much more nautical knowledge than mine may chime in with their thoughts. I can only imagine that when sailors were working on the top they might have instructions to check the chafing on the lift and shroud. My guess is that the lift would be damaged at a greater rate than the shroud since, in my mind, the shroud is a thicker line but over the course of several trips one or both might have to have been replaced.

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    October 2019
Posted by Bruma on Tuesday, December 3, 2019 5:59 PM

Thank you Mike for your dedication, that is a good catch! 
Still I don't understand: they know they will be in trouble, they say "unacceptable chafing" and they still go for it? 
This definitely ruin my image of perfection when I figure myself this wonderful ship :)
There should also be something mistaken in my build, because even if I move the eyebolt in the middle of the mast, where they are supposed to be, the lift line still interfere as you can see here... 

 2019-12-04_12-46-36 by Marco, su Flickr



AnywayI'm still working on the masts and in particular on the topmast shroud, here you see the fore and main completed:

 2019-12-04_12-08-48 by Marco, su Flickr

 2019-12-04_12-58-12 by Marco , su Flickr

 


It is the firs time I try to rig deadeye and they are pretty small up here, 3mm in diameter. 
All this preamble only to justify all the imperfection that you see...
still have to decide what to do with the last part of the lanyard. They should go down again in the inner side and seized, but at that scale and with my limited skills I tink it will be better to cut them just after the upper knot. 
Thank again to everyone who will participate in the discussion!  

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Tuesday, December 3, 2019 12:57 PM

Bruma,

I don't know the answer definitively but this section (bracketed in red) may give a partial answer to the dilemma you've encountered.

The text I'm posting is from Seamanship in the Age of Sail by John Harland.

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    October 2019
Posted by Bruma on Sunday, December 1, 2019 5:42 PM

Thank you both, I really appreciate! 

Some updates and some troubles...

This evening I finished the topmast shrouds on the main mast. 

I was quite happy but I suddenly noticed an issue. 

 

Where are supposed to run the main lift lines?

 

They seem to interfere with the topmast shroud! In order to guarantee at least a small degree of freedom for swinging the yards they should pass trough the shrouds but this option seems to me a little bit strange...

 

Here a picture of the actual situation, with a temporary lift line and block to better understand what I'm talking about.

 2019-12-02_12-36-37 by Marco, su Flickr

Any help would be really appreciateted, right now I'm stuck with this dilemma... 

 

 

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: East Stroudsburg, PA
Posted by TigerII on Wednesday, November 27, 2019 10:05 PM

Hey Bruma, English might not be your native language, but you make up for it with your modelling skills. This is an extraordinary piece ship modelling. Especially of a ship from the days of wooden seafaring vessels. Great work. great model.

Achtung Panzer! Colonel General Heinz Guderian
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