Three Revell Constitutions on hand to build.

One of the problems with the Revell sailing kits is the instructions. 

For instance they tell you to paint the bulkheads. What they don't say up front is that paint interferes with bonding on plastic models. And THAT will cause problems with pin rails, for instance.This should be a given but one doesn't always have their brains in gear! (That's me!)

I now use Playdough to fill in areas I want free of paint, such as the points where pin rails on the Constitution...or the Cutty or Themo...exist.

Plug these areas with play dough, make sure the seal is good, then go ahead and paint. When the paint is dry, unplug the play dough (or something similar.) This gives a proper glueing surface for plastic cement. (Wash the joint to make sure no oils might be in the play dough.)

It also helps the bond on a wood to plastic joint.

I've added cable bitts to the gun deck, waiting for the anchor rope from Syrene. Thanks for explaining all of that to me and for the pictures. That was a big help.

Just checking to see if I have this right. The guns are in on the gun deck, 15 per side. The anchor bits are at the bow, two uprights joined by a cross bar, with a brass band where the messenger goes around them, to help prevent chaffing.. The messenger goes on a round trip between the capstan to those anchor cable bits,, with several laps around the capstan for gripping power. The bits are tied to the anchor cable, looks like about every four feet, and the messenger hauls the cable in where it drops through "spurling holes" to the cable tier on the orlop deck.. As the cable drops into the spurling holes, the cable bits are untied and the messenger round trips continue until the anchor is stowed away.

I'm ready to model this, just checking to see if I have it right.

Thanks to Bill Morrison for helping me understand this process.

The gun ports are solid, British yellow on the outside to match the gun stripe, red on the inside with red sills.

I will model the shot storage next, around the hatches as in Model Shipways plans, then rig the guns in. 

I have lots of pictures on my build:

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/7/t/178637.aspx?page=4

Go about 1/3 of the way down.  I have multiple shots of the gun deck, even highlighted the route of the messenger cable.  Close-ups of the front pivot, chock to guide the cable, and brass rings the rest of the way.  Hope that helps.

Bob

Thanks, will study those too. I used the kit guns but got HiS carriages. The brass guns from HiS are a bit off scale, and why brass when you paint them black? The carriages will be glued and pinned.

Your build is fantastic.

I got some leds from Evans to light the giun deck. My little 4 year old grand daughter has pulled the wiring out of the hull. So the third hull I have on hand will wired for the leds...too lazy to try to redo this hull.

Rick

The guns are in awaiting rigging. I put 15 in per side according to the Model Shipways plans and closed in the extra port.

Doing the anchor cables and messengers now. I added a capstan on the gun deck too, as well as the spar deck capstan that came with the kit. (Some photos I found show the gun deck capstan) Thanks for sharing your knowedge on those things.

I have the grog tub and water barrels. They will go in with the shot holders surrounding the hatches.

I found an article that says the sides of the water buckets and sponge buckets were not tapered, as the small base and wider top made them more prone to tipping. That's good news as I intend to make my own, and now a simple drill with proper size rod will do the job.

Looking at your bilge pumps too.

I still can not figure how to get the pics from Fotki to FSM. I have added five pix of the gun deck, showing installation of spurling holes just forward of main hatch for the anchor cables, messenger cable pulley forward as well as a support column for the bow sprit. I turned an old thread spool into a capstan for the gun deck.

Rick-wayburn.yi5@fotki.com if you want to peek.

I raided my wife's sewing kit and found a box of eyelets that made excellent spurling holes in the gun deck...drilled two proper size holes in the gun deck and dropped the anchor cable into them...still have to do the cable bits and messenger cables and messenger guides. The eyelets fit into the deck snugly but added a little ca for good measure.

I added a pillar support for the bow sprit and set a messenger cable pulley on that. I turned the pulley on my lathe and need to secure the pulley on the pillar.

I turned the gun deck capstan on the lathe and may just turn another one for the spar deck. After I paint the capstans I have an assortment of foil candy wrappers to use on them...these come in aluminum, copper, bronze, gold...they come in handy.

I started putting the ropes on the gun ports covers. Revell did not drill out all the holes on the gun port covers. Must be old molds...and is a pain, the old pin drill is getting a workout. And then to rig the 24 lbers on the gun deck.

Rick Sr

I still can not figure how to get the pics from Fotki to FSM. I have added five pix of the gun deck, showing installation of spurling holes just forward of main hatch for the anchor cables, messenger cable pulley forward as well as a support column for the bow sprit. I turned an old thread spool into a capstan for the gun deck.

Rick-wayburn.yi5@fotki.com if you want to peek.

I raided my wife's sewing kit and found a box of eyelets that made excellent spurling holes in the gun deck...drilled two proper size holes in the gun deck and dropped the anchor cable into them...still have to do the cable bits and messenger cables and messenger guides. The eyelets fit into the deck snugly but added a little ca for good measure.

I added a pillar support for the bow sprit and set a messenger cable pulley on that. I turned the pulley on my lathe and need to secure the pulley on the pillar.

I turned the gun deck capstan on the lathe and may just turn another one for the spar deck. After I paint the capstans I have an assortment of foil candy wrappers to use on them...these come in aluminum, copper, bronze, gold...they come in handy.

I started putting the ropes on the gun ports covers. Revell did not drill out all the holes on the gun port covers. Must be old molds...and is a pain, the old pin drill is getting a workout. And then to rig the 24 lbers on the gun deck.

 

The address you put in is an email address, not a web access.

is this it?

https://www.fotki.com/Rick-wayburn  ?

That is the page I went to.  Looks like a good build.  Only problem is that almost all of the images are blurry.  Maybe use a tripod.

Bob

Thanks, I'll try it again. I'm recovering from esophogeal cancer and the chemo and medications have given me shaky hands. It tends to make working on the Constitution a bit more difficult, same with the camera. The tripod is a good suggestion.(The fine line painting is tricky too.) The prognosis is very good, thankfully.

I have the second edition of "A Most Fortunate Ship", printed in 1997. What an excellent book. After reading the first chapters with the politics of the era involved, one can only come to the conclusion that...not much has changed!

I have a question. The spurling holes for the anchor cables are forward of the main hatch. Behind the main hatch are "chain pots". What are those for? I see that you have anchor cables going into those as well, I believe the auxiliary anchors?

By the way, that is one of the most fantastic models I have ever seen. That isn't a model of the Constitution, it is a replica.

I had planned on lighting the gun deck, not quite as well as you have done, until my little granddaughter pulled the wiring and leds out of it. It's a good thing we love our grandchildren!

And I can find no information or pictures of "stopper bills". Same question, what are those? I have a print out of nautical terms and neither is to be found.

I ordered copper clading for my third kit, it came in the mail yesterday. Yikes! That might take some time. I'll have to figure out what to use for glue. I also got the shot for the shot racks. 

I started the third kit, painting the hull. The hull is not together yet. Doing that while waiting for glue to dry and paint to dry on current build. I'll be using the copper clading on that build. On this one, I'll use Tamiya's masking tape to cover where the pin rails will go before painting the bulwarks.

I tried turning some spars. 

The plans I have show four chain pots around the main hatch area. The Constitution had no chains at the time being modelled.

I see four cables on your build. The Constitution carried two on the bow, but where did they put the spares and were the rodes used only one at a time with the messenger ? 

Rick Sr

The plans I have show four chain pots around the main hatch area. The Constitution had no chains at the time being modelled.

Quite true, but I figured they may have used the chains for other uses, so I just laid them tight against the bits.

I see four cables on your build. The Constitution carried two on the bow, but where did they put the spares and were the rodes used only one at a time with the messenger ? 

The other two were carried a bit farther aft, on the foremast channel.

And yes, if you were raising anchors, you could only do one at a time on the messenger cable.  Port and Starboard would also require you to turn the capstan in opposite directions.  I suppose you could try to pull two anchors from the same side simultaneously, but at 9,000 lbs per anchor, you would really be straining the messenger cable, the capstan and the crew!

I got out my trusty exacto knife, and a batch of toothpicks and made some tampions for the 24 lb guns. A little dab of red paint will finish them off. I still have to paint the wheels on six of the 24 lb carriages.

Ready to actually mount the 24 pdrs. I intend on chiseling off those plastic tabs on the bulwarks and making my own eyebolts for rigging the guns then planking the bulwarks. The thicker bulwarks should be better for taking the wire eyebolts.

The plans I have are from the 1930s rebuild. I ordered "The Anatomy of a Ship-Constitution" since they show 1812-1815 drawings.

These plans show S hooks for attaching the breaching lines to the bulwark eyebolts.

What gauge wire would you suggest, and would wrapping the wire around assorted finishing nails give good results? Would you solder the eyes shut?

I made tampions for the 24 pdrs using small toothpicks and painted them red. Two pics are on fotki.

Rick Sr

These plans show S hooks for attaching the breaching lines to the bulwark eyebolts.  What gauge wire would you suggest, and would wrapping the wire around assorted finishing nails give good results?

I typically use whatever solid copper wire I have lying around - I have so much leftover from my pinball days.  For small eyes and the deadeye strops and chains I use wire from Cat5E cable.  Just strip off the insulation and bend around pins or small nails.  For larger ones, such as the breach lines, use a slightly larger wire. BE SURE the hook or line will fit in it - if not, use a bigger pin or nail.  I mounted a bunch of eyes that took one hook just fine, but needed to get 2 hooks in there, and just couldn't do it.  Had to replace them all.  You could also use a pair of jewelers round pliers (I have 3 different ones with different tapers).  I went with looping and seizing the breach lines, then securing them to the eye with a pin.

Would you solder the eyes shut?

Since the guns will be glued down, I wouldn't waste time soldering.  There will be little to no tension to deform the eyes.  Anything under tension, such as deadeye strops and links, I always solder.

I made tampions for the 24 pdrs using small toothpicks and painted them red. Two pics are on fotki.

Cool idea.  Mine has the flashing cannons, so no tampions for me.

Bob

W0W! Don't forget to keep you gun ports open! You might have an "oops!" The Captain may get upset if you blow off a gun port!

The comings are too low. They have to be raised. I have the gratings to make new hatches (Model Expo). Otherwise the shot racks will seem out of place, level with the top of the comings. As long as this has to be done, I'll be bringing the hatches more in line with the plans. The kit is off again. So the ladders will have to be adjusted too. This kit is good but it seems the more you see, the more you have to adjust.

On the gun deck, the HiS carriages look just like the kit carriages. I am returning them. But I will keep the carronade carriages for the spar deck as they are more prominate and do look better.

Revell doesn't provide enough sailors so I will keep the sails furled. I have three kits so that means 60 sailors...enough to show rookies getting gun handling lessons by the old time "chiefs".  So there will be guns run in and guns run out.

 I managed to rewire my leds...chips, but there are 20 now instead of 26. I have to figure out hoe to get them into the ship, probably through the stern now.

This may be a "doofus" question.

I'm ready to mount the gun deck 24 pders. Also tie up the gun ports. I'm having a hard time tying the knots for the gun port lines. Interior under the bulwarks)

I have seen a semi transparent milky and translucent glue sometimes used to secure the back of charge cards to the letters they are mailed to you in. That stuff sticks pretty good.

Any one know what it's called and do you think a dab on the porthole line on the inside of the hull would work holding those lines?

Rick Sr

This may be a "doofus" question.

I'm ready to mount the gun deck 24 pders. Also tie up the gun ports. I'm having a hard time tying the knots for the gun port lines. Interior under the bulwarks)

I have seen a semi transparent milky and translucent glue sometimes used to secure the back of charge cards to the letters they are mailed to you in. That stuff sticks pretty good.

Any one know what it's called and do you think a dab on the porthole line on the inside of the hull would work holding those lines?

Well Rick Sr, it sounds like you made the same mistake that I made. If you are talking about tying the gun ropes to those little knobs protruding from the bulwarks between the guns, you should have shaved them off and replaced them with eyebolts!

My fix was to make a loop (overhead knot), slip it over the stud, and glue it with white glue; or any way you can. There is no tension on it, so it does not need much as long as it is secure!

If you are talking about the gun port cover, tie a stopper knot (reef knot will do), and run your line from outside the port and tie it to the adjacent line inside the bulwarks (give yourself lots of rope). You do not want that rope to come loose when you break the gun port off. I would not suggest glueing Them,

Rick Sr

Revell doesn't provide enough sailors so I will keep the sails furled. I have three kits so that means 60 sailors...enough to show rookies getting gun handling lessons by the old time "chiefs".  So there will be guns run in and guns run out.

Thanks. I've already knocked two off!

Here's a post from the late Dr. Tilley that I think of often, but just stumbled across this morning.

It's from 2015 within my Yacht America thread and addresses the issue of the accuracy of line lengths on a ship model.

My original premise was what to do with the bitter ends of sheets when the booms are close hauled to the centerline of the yacht, and secured to a cleat.

"Out of curiosity (and to while away an hour or so waiting for my clothes at the laundramat) I once took a calculator and added up the lengths given in Steel's Elements of Masting, Rigging, and Seamanship for the standing and running rigging of a 32-gun frigate. The figure I got was about fourteen miles. For my 1/128 Hancock, that would have translated into about 580 feet. No, I didn't do it.

Photographs of sailing ships confirm that tremendous amounts of rope were lying around all over the place - in coils and bundles that a sailor could grab quickly with no tangles. I remember seeing one photo of - I think - the Constitution in her latter days. All over the spar deck were just the sort of "cages" GM described.

I don't think I've ever seen a model that looked like the amount of rope on it was authentic. This is just one of several features of sailing ships that modelers over the centuries have just agreed to ignore. Another one: tautness of rigging. In a real ship, only a few of the running rigging lines, and even fewer of the standing rigging, are ever really tight. Donald McNarry, Phillip Reed, and a few other small-scale virtuosi have gotten brilliant results by using fine wire for the rigging. But thread just doesn't sag like full-size rope. Personally, I get too much pleasure out of running thread through blocks and deadeyes to forsake it in favor of wire.".

Priceless information.

Thanks, that is working out well.

I will show crew being trained on a 24 pder by the hatch where it will be visible and a carronade on the spar deck with 12 on the gundeck and eight on the carronade.

So two guns will be run in.

There's plenty of information online, including Youtubes of the gun being fired on the Constitution. They tend to be undermanned (womaned?) as they don't have a projectile so there's no recoil, and they hang outside to swab it and reload.

Some show thwem rolling a ball into the muzzle, but that one doesn't get fired.

I'm hoping to show gun rigging with one of the guns run in on both decks.  Right now I'm tying in the gun port lids. An hour on then up for a cup of tea then back down to resume, to give the eyes a break.

I seemto recall someone complaining the the slots on the brass pedestal mounts are sometimes a bit too narrow to fit the keel.

I found that too. This is nothing to worry about. I solved the problem with a dremel like tool, a 9901 dremel cutter bit and  a very light touch inside the slot. It's easier and more accurate than using a file. And it works. Remember to protect your eyes.

Luvspinball

I have lots of pictures on my build:

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/7/t/178637.aspx?page=4

Go about 1/3 of the way down.  I have multiple shots of the gun deck, even highlighted the route of the messenger cable.  Close-ups of the front pivot, chock to guide the cable, and brass rings the rest of the way.  Hope that helps.

Bob

 

 

Shipwreck

 

 

Rick Sr

This may be a "doofus" question.

I'm ready to mount the gun deck 24 pders. Also tie up the gun ports. I'm having a hard time tying the knots for the gun port lines. Interior under the bulwarks)

I have seen a semi transparent milky and translucent glue sometimes used to secure the back of charge cards to the letters they are mailed to you in. That stuff sticks pretty good.

Any one know what it's called and do you think a dab on the porthole line on the inside of the hull would work holding those lines?

 

 

 

 

Well Rick Sr, it sounds like you made the same mistake that I made. If you are talking about tying the gun ropes to those little knobs protruding from the bulwarks between the guns, you should have shaved them off and replaced them with eyebolts!

My fix was to make a loop (overhead knot), slip it over the stud, and glue it with white glue; or any way you can. There is no tension on it, so it does not need much as long as it is secure!

If you are talking about the gun port cover, tie a stopper knot (reef knot will do), and run your line from outside the port and tie it to the adjacent line inside the bulwarks (give yourself lots of rope). You do not want that rope to come loose when you break the gun port off. I would not suggest glueing Them,

 

 

I chiselled the gun attachment points on the gun deck off and have brass eyebolts to secure the guns to. They look good, almost a shame to blacken them! I also sanded the gun carriage wheels so where they attach to the deck is a little flat to increase the adhesion area. I will be pinning those in place with wires into the deck.

I am using one eyebolt between two guns as the kit did with those little plastic bumps, but plan on seizing them at the eyebolt.

The "boss" has banished me to the cellar to get me out of her hair, so I am working both of the kits I have on hand. Good way to keep busy during the corona scare. What I am learning on the first kit will be applied to the second kit.