New to Building Model ships. Intoducing myself, and I have a few questions!

Thanks man. I knew this ship would be fun, and have quite the learning curve. Without you guys here and some youtube videos I would be completely lost!

I had about an hour before work today and started working on removing the paint and wash from the deck to redo it. Didnt get very far. But it will be a process that I expect to take me 1-2 weeks to complete.

That's good medicen BB, good advice. Take some time to plan each section. Some modlers like me and I suspect GM, will take days to research, study drawings, pictures, the timeframe of the ship I'm trying to portray since there was only one Queen Elizibeth she looked a specific way at what ever time you are building her for. She's not a clunky tank or one of the thousands of slim airplanes, she's one of a kind, never to be seen again, a city, a home for over one thousand souls to live, work and yes, sometimes die. A sailor has fond memories of their past ships, it's where they put in their blood sweat and tears. I was told, by another ship modeler of course, that a ship modler is the penical of scale modeling, the elete, because ships are long intense projects that most other modlers, who don't build ships, are in in awe of. If you've seen some of the ships, say on Pintrest, those took years to complete, every cut and fit was perfect.

Like GM said, you deserve a grog my friend,  hand in there, it'll come.

GMorrison

Serve the man a grog. 

A drop of black.

We used to have an Officer's Mess in this forum and I nominate BB to join us as senior Deck Detail Chief.

Holystones on deck, rig the lifelines and we have a serious ship modeler aboard.

(Don't mistake me for anyone who gets piped on).

Respectfully, the crew of the QE look for a proper inspection and review of their ship to get her right.

One thing noticeable on your paint and stain work is that there are areas that resist your washes and stains. Follow your base color with a nice shiny clear and then go about adding the wash to pick the details.

My mix, applied over Future Acrykic floor finish, is 12/1 Turpenoid to black Indis Ink.

 

 

I actually just bought Tamiya XF-86 Clear, and the Tamiya X-20A acrylic thinner. From the sounds of it, it is all adding up where I went wrong. One, the paint I used is Tamiya acrylic paint. I didnt put a clear coat on, and used the wash (which is enamel based) almost as a paint. Im going to repaint the deck with the tan deck paint I have, and once it is dry and cured, follow up with the tamiya clear coat cut with a 1:1 of the thinner. I am hoping this gives me the look I am after.

And when i said that you can't hurt my feelings, I mean it. I work in law enforcement, and am also a firefighter/swift water rescue tech. Cutting on each other and dealing with people is my business! lol.

On a more serious note, I take all criticism as being constructive here. You guys are obviously trying to help me become a better modeler. And for that I am thankful to have such resources that take their personal time to guide me in the right way.

Cheers!

Matt, 

First off, welcome aboard. In answer to your question about getting addicted to the hobby and ships, the answer is a resounding yes. Just ask my wife about my stash! The way I look at buying models is the same as buying books. I intend to read and build every last one of them before I die. Heck, I’m going to live to about 200 + years at this rate.

I’m in agreement with Bill, the Catn’ and Ed. Slow down and think about each module as a kit in itself. That way, you spend time making the piece as good as possible and then you have a great model when it’s all put together.

If I can make a suggestion on your deck, especially British. Wooden decks on Naval vessels were scrubbed with holistones and washed with sea water. That along with the bleaching effects of the sun made the wood a grayish color. The late Professor Tilly would suggest A color called Aged Concrete for decks. It gives a good teak wood color and  I used to use that until it became harder to find.  But eventually I started to use Vallejo Model Colors Deck Tan 70986. To my eye, it I looks like a straight on aged deck color. 

The owner of the LHS near me, recommended using artist water colors for washes if you’re new to them. The ones in a tin container with little blocks of color in them. You lay down your wash, wait about 5 to 10 minutes and then carefully wipe with a damp paper towel or old cotton t-shirt. This will leave the wash color in the seams where you want it and not on top of the planks.

Personally, I use Artist Oil paints for my weathering but that’s a whole different subject. 

As everyone has said, make sure you lay down a Gloss clear coat before washes or weathering! Just don’t make the mistakes I just did on my PT Boat. You can find the tread here in the ships forum.

Almost lastly, I use Perfect Plastic Putty now. I love it because you can fill your seams, let it dry a bit and then use a Q-Tip with water and rub the excess away. I have not had to file and lose detail.

Lastly, have fun.

Steve

Serve the man a grog. 

A drop of black.

We used to have an Officer's Mess in this forum and I nominate BB to join us as senior Deck Detail Chief.

Holystones on deck, rig the lifelines and we have a serious ship modeler aboard.

(Don't mistake me for anyone who gets piped on).

Respectfully, the crew of the QE look for a proper inspection and review of their ship to get her right.

One thing noticeable on your paint and stain work is that there are areas that resist your washes and stains. Follow your base color with a nice shiny clear and then go about adding the wash to pick the details.

My mix, applied over Future Acrykic floor finish, is 12/1 Turpenoid to black Indis Ink.

GMorrison

BB, let's be honest here. The model isn't going together well. I don't know if it's because you are rushing things before you get comfortable, or need more practice.

I'd encourage you to take the time to examine your work as you go. Taking photos and looking at them is an excellent way to do it.

I think you should strip your deck and start it over. I thought it looked pretty good with just the paint, but the washes just don't look good.

Honest criticism, if I've struck the wrong notes tell me so. 

Ed's comment echoes what I remember from a sign my Field Superintendent had over his desk. 

Morrison's Second Law of Modeling:

"There's never enough time to do it right, but somehow there's always enough time to do it over".

I know you can do better.

 

Bill

 

All criticism is welcome and appreciated. Cant hurt my feelings. And you know, I was thinking about stripping the deck and redoing it in just the paint until I can get more practice with using washes.

This was literally my first time using a wash. And it was store bought. Testors Createfx black wood wash. So maybe it is just the brand? However, I am sure it was me. I think where I went wrong was I just grabbed the wash and started using it. Before i knew it I was about done with the rear deck.

I will give it a strip, and redo it. I dont feel like I was rushing. But maybe I was. I will slow down and be more methodical and see if my results improve. Only way to learn is to make mistakes!

i also bought that white tamiya putty. I will correct the gaps and sand them down and paint them too. I know this thing will still end up turning out great.

I appreciate all of the feedback and help you guys have given me.

I do have a question though, say I dont bother with the wash on the decking again, would adding a little bit of brown paint to the tan and mixing it together give me a better darker look? The reason i didnt like the tan I used is that I thought it was too light.

BB, let's be honest here. The model isn't going together well. I don't know if it's because you are rushing things before you get comfortable, or need more practice.

I'd encourage you to take the time to examine your work as you go. Taking photos and looking at them is an excellent way to do it.

I think you should strip your deck and start it over. I thought it looked pretty good with just the paint, but the washes just don't look good.

Honest criticism, if I've struck the wrong notes tell me so. 

Ed's comment echoes what I remember from a sign my Field Superintendent had over his desk. 

Morrison's Second Law of Modeling:

"There's never enough time to do it right, but somehow there's always enough time to do it over".

I know you can do better.

Bill

CapnMac82

I know of folks who swear by glazing putty, but, I may have spent too much time swearing at glazig putty used in actuual windows to be an unbiased judge.

CapnMac82

 

 

BBorBust

For example, would stretching and fitting a piece of sprue be easier than using a plastic putty for the bow gap?

 

 

 

It might be.  Depends on how close you can get the stretched sprue to the gap (and it's shape).

 

The white Tamyia putty is used by a lot of people, as the Perfect Plastic Putty.

 

In days of old, we were happy to get the Squadron Green, which could be a bit of an exercise to get right.  I know of folks who swear by glazing putty, but, I may have spent too much time swearing at glazig putty used in actuual windows to be an unbiased judge.

 

Capt...the glazing putty others refer to is the auto body type.  Basically a super heavy bodied laquer primer..  The oil bodied window stuff of old is a disaster in waiting here.

CapnMac82

 

BBorBust

For example, would stretching and fitting a piece of sprue be easier than using a plastic putty for the bow gap?

 

 

 

It might be.  Depends on how close you can get the stretched sprue to the gap (and it's shape).

 

The white Tamyia putty is used by a lot of people, as the Perfect Plastic Putty.

 

In days of old, we were happy to get the Squadron Green, which could be a bit of an exercise to get right.  I know of folks who swear by glazing putty, but, I may have spent too much time swearing at glazig putty used in actuual windows to be an unbiased judge.

 

Thanks for the info.

I actually just order the Tamiya white putty...... and a couple more tamiya paints..... And the King George V.

Is it normal to get addicted to this hobby so quick? LOL

BBorBust

For example, would stretching and fitting a piece of sprue be easier than using a plastic putty for the bow gap?

 

For example, would stretching and fitting a piece of sprue be easier than using a plastic putty for the bow gap?

Thank you for the tips. This is my first actual model ship i have done. Like mentioned I noticed that I have made some mistakes along the way. i have been sanding down the left over sprue on pieces after removing them. i noticed the gap in the superstructure and I tried to correct it and the paint had dried. From the pictures, this piece will be covered by other parts on the model. Not that it makes it better, but being my first time I will learn from my mistakes.

And i dont understand the gap in the bow. When i test fit the deck to the hull, it fit flush. But when putting everything together (I put the rear deck on first) the gap appeared. What material should I use to fill that in?

As far as the painting and washing of the deck itself.... Well it was my first time ever using a wash. I was going to just leave the tan alone and leave it like that. But I didnt like the look, so i decided to try a wash. I like how it looks overall, but I agree it does kind of look muddy.

This model is my first go at painting, washing, and pretty much everything. My next one (hopefully the King George V) i will strive to correct the problems I created in this one.

BBorBust

Here is a picture of the chains going to the acnhors. I have since added a black wash to these and finished painting all of the details surrounding the area. I will take more pics and upload soon.

 

Untitled by Matthew Brumage, on Flickr

 

Here is the section of superstructure i am working on. Hopefully finish up this section in the next couple of days.

 

Untitled by Matthew Brumage, on Flickr

 

 

You need to invest in some emory board/nail files to clean up your joints before gluing.

Looking at the picture of the bow.   There is a big old honkin' seam running down the bow.   Use your emory boards to clean up the join pieces so that when glue is applied the seam blends and disappears.    Easier to do it right the first time than to try to fix it later with some putty.   Two problems with the deck seam; first the deck isn't flush with the hull and second the big gap at the bow.   Test fit the deck first.   Does it stand too proud?   Sand the underside of the deck to correct the height.   Fill the gap with some shim plastic or stretched sprue.  Sand to achieve correct fit.  Test fit before gluing.

Your superstructure piece picture.   Big gap again.   Is there a piece of sprue injection stub in the way causing the poor fit?  Clean up your joints.   There are a pair of miters which when glued should make a tight 90 degree corner.

Overall the deck paint & wash looks cloudy & muddy.  Flat paint is made by adding flattening agent inclusions.   These work to make the surface rough, thus difracting the light.   The trouble is that washes gather among the inclusions making the cloudy appearance.   Before adding a wash you really need to apply a gloss coat.   This fills in around the inclusions so the puddling and cloudiness is minimized.   Ideally your wash should settle into the area between the deck boards to highlight their individual nature.

Its a process, not a race.

Here is a picture of the chains going to the acnhors. I have since added a black wash to these and finished painting all of the details surrounding the area. I will take more pics and upload soon.

Untitled by Matthew Brumage, on Flickr

Here is the section of superstructure i am working on. Hopefully finish up this section in the next couple of days.

Untitled by Matthew Brumage, on Flickr

So i have probably done around 6 hours of work to the QE over the last 3 days. She is coming along. And I find myself making small little errors, but overall pretty happy with how she is turning out thus far. Man this kit is detailed! Or maybe it's not? I dont know.... But the only comparison I have to it is the Lindberg Hood I did a couple weeks ago. This thing has been fun to build so far.

Untitled by Matthew Brumage, on Flickr

I painted the deck tan and went with a black wash to make it look aged a little bit. Here are some comparison pictures...

Untitled by Matthew Brumage, on Flickr

Untitled by Matthew Brumage, on Flickr

Untitled by Matthew Brumage, on Flickr

Untitled by Matthew Brumage, on Flickr

BBorBust

So you are saying that I should paint the deck, when clear coat it, and then add my wash on top of it?

Well, back i nthe 80s building 1/700 Rodney in pre-war guise, I used Humbrol Unbleached linen as the base.  Then, applied the washes to get the color where I wanted it, and the grain detail just to obvious.  There was some blending of the ocher and umber--on purpose.  That then sat a week to fully cure (deck was not assembled to hull).

It got a coat of clear flat lacquer to seal it all in.  Which also made it easier to pick out the details on deck, as uh-ohs wiped up while still wet.

Now, it was a bit of a pain to have to use CA glue to get the superstructure to stick to the deck, but, I installed it as a whole sub-assembly, painted up during assembly.

Had photo-etch exisited back then, I probably would have used that, too.

Tanker-Builder

Are you insuating that we are ancient?

Was more of a blatant assertion

wasn't affected by the alchohol used to thin the ink. The ink was the same used by Architects back then!

Yeah, I had Fine and Extra Fine India ink in Black, Blue-Black, and even Sepia (which Bill may remember, as sepia diazio used to be common in architecture).

Finding a clear coat that didn't dissolve the alcohol thinning the india ink was an issue. 

Back in the day, most "clear" coats were lacquer-based, so they either used alcohol as a solvent or as a carrier.

I remember that stuff.  Tried it about fifty years ago, worked okay but I have changed to other washes easier to find.

Tanker-Builder

Hi;

   Believe it or not, Hobby Lobby has a very nice pair of flush cutters in their Jewelry section. They aren't expensive, but as long as you keep the cuts to the joins between the sprue and the part they are great. I modified the tips of mine, by grinding them quite thin from the top so that I could get in tight spaces. Now that means doing it carefully and DON'T let the Cutters get hot!

 

Those were the ones I use.  Have had it for over a year and love it.  And it was about a third of the price I have seen other good cutters go for. 

Hi;

   Believe it or not, Hobby Lobby has a very nice pair of flush cutters in their Jewelry section. They aren't expensive, but as long as you keep the cuts to the joins between the sprue and the part they are great. I modified the tips of mine, by grinding them quite thin from the top so that I could get in tight spaces. Now that means doing it carefully and DON'T let the Cutters get hot!

Capn Mac;

         Are you insuating that we are ancient? Just because I used Diluted india ink for washes don't mean I was raised in a cave. Oh! wait a minute! That's right I blew a mouthful of soot and water at my hand in that cave didn't I ? LOL.LOL.

         Yes, I used diluted india ink back then. My neighbor was a high School art teacher and she showed me that this mix over testors paint ( The only choice then) wasn't affected by the alchohol used to thin the ink. The ink was the same used by Architects back then! 

Hi;

 I went to the link and I do believe that on that one You would need to use White till it was almost a light creme colour. Then just one drop of black in 2 ounces of paint. Mix well and lighten accordingly

 When you lighten do so with The original tan, one drop in at a time

BBorBust

So you are saying that I should paint the deck, when clear coat it, and then add my wash on top of it?

Yes, diffrent types of paints react diffrently to each other. Acrylics, enamels, laqures,acrylic laquers on and on each may or may not react to the other. If you paint enamel, then brush a lacqure over it, the enamel will disolve but not visa versa. I will SPRAY a laquer clear coat over a completed paint job prior to a wash. The wash won't adhear to the surface as well thus leaving the wash in the cracks when you wipe it off. Without a clear coat (gloss) the wash will bite into the paint, especially flats, and it is almost impossable to remove, leaving you paint job smeared. On ships, I paint, clear coat, weather the hull and first application to the deck. then spray another clear coat to protect them during the rest of the build. The build is sprayed with a flat or simi gloss after.

I've heard India Ink works well but I have never tried it. I just oils, almost exclusivly for weathering and details, but that's me.

Not to hi-jack your thread but just for an example. Both kits are still in progress.

The North Carolina hull before the wood deck.

The Prince of Wales.

CapnMac82

 

BBorBust

If you make your own, what is your process?

 

 

Well, back in the Dark Ages when Tanker an I were "young," there were no pre-packaged washes.  I remember when model-specific water-base acrylics first started showing up in LHS.  (And, that was largely PolyS for the railroaders, to start.) 

You have to alternate paint chemistries, and/or use artis oils thinned with turps or odorless spirits.

Oils were very much like modle paint, much higher thinner to paint volumes.

We did things now considered obsqure and odd.  Like use actylics to paint a model, then heavily-thinned enamels to wash details in.  Or vice versa. 

You did not want to use the same thinner for your wash as for the model paint, lest if lift both.

It's now canon to used clear coats between finish paint and washes, not so much back then.  Which probably reflected the quality/thin-thickness of clear coats "back then."

So, really, there's no "formula" per se, so much as there's just practicing.  Which is what cheap kits are for.

 

So you are saying that I should paint the deck, when clear coat it, and then add my wash on top of it?

Dilute India ink.

BBorBust

If you make your own, what is your process?

Well, back in the Dark Ages when Tanker an I were "young," there were no pre-packaged washes.  I remember when model-specific water-base acrylics first started showing up in LHS.  (And, that was largely PolyS for the railroaders, to start.) 

You have to alternate paint chemistries, and/or use artis oils thinned with turps or odorless spirits.

Oils were very much like modle paint, much higher thinner to paint volumes.

We did things now considered obsqure and odd.  Like use actylics to paint a model, then heavily-thinned enamels to wash details in.  Or vice versa. 

You did not want to use the same thinner for your wash as for the model paint, lest if lift both.

It's now canon to used clear coats between finish paint and washes, not so much back then.  Which probably reflected the quality/thin-thickness of clear coats "back then."

So, really, there's no "formula" per se, so much as there's just practicing.  Which is what cheap kits are for.

I can't respond to your question about washes — I'm still trying to figure those out for myself! I did think of one thing to add about the GodHand sprue cutters: They are designed to remove parts from sprues, NOT to actually cut the thicker parts of the sprue, just as a surgeon uses a scalpel to make an incision, but would choose a bone saw for an amputation. What I especially like about the GodHand sprue cutter is that it so small that it easily fits into tight spaces on the sprue.

Bob

I do have some cutters i have used for electrical work and other things before. I will give them a shot. Still waiting on my paint to ship from scalehobbyist, hopefully shipping out today. My model will be here tomorrow and Im going to start doing some little things. Like drilling out the windows. May also run to the the local hobby shop to look for a few small things.

I have been following one guy on youtube that has done some incredible model ships. He uses a similiar deck paint that i bought, and once it dries uses a brown wash to bring out the details. This made a huge difference in the decking and is what i want to do accomplish.

So my next question is, I have seen people make their own washes with things like alcohol and other things. Then I see that you can buy washes too. Do you guys make your own washes, or buy them?

If you make your own, what is your process?

Well it better be great for that price. I have a pair of toenail clippers with straight blades that serve me well.