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Wooden Decks-WHY?

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  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Friday, May 13, 2022 3:42 PM

Hi Bill;

 Oh, you are so right again. Douglas Fir because of flexibility. They absorbed both the hard weight of a plane landing and the ship flexing in weather!

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, May 13, 2022 1:56 PM

WW2 USN carrier decks were Douglas Fir I'm remembering.

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Friday, May 13, 2022 10:30 AM

Personally, I like wood decks. Let's face it, most paint jobs I have seen are thicker than wood, distributed unevenly, and the paint tends to run up onto bulkheads. A well done wood deck looks better to me than many mediocre paint jobs.

That said, well done paint jobs look great as well.  I sincerely don't believe either  to be truly in scale. But, I am a career submariner; we don't have wood decks . . .

Bill

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Thursday, May 12, 2022 11:23 AM

Missileman 2000;

      I will admit, in the back of the old grey cells I had thought in the beginning, when I first saw them and heard about folks using them. I haven't heard of anyone having trouble with the Swastikas on the Bismark, Tirpitz or any other W.W.2 German ship with wood decks. Clearcoating Might serve here. But then the question is, would it be smooth enough?

      I do know that the decals didn't stick with the deck markings on My U.S.S. Hornet model with the wood .The Deck is even stained Blue and then Semi-Gloss Clearcoated, It didn't make a difference even after another coat and rubbing with a cloth .They have stuck about a year and now they are coming loose.I wasn't sure about putting a clearcoat over the decals. I have been burnt by this method on more than one occassion.

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Thursday, May 12, 2022 11:14 AM

Hey Ben!

 Kool, Couldn't tell!

  • Member since
    March 2022
  • From: Twin cities, MN
Posted by missileman2000 on Thursday, May 12, 2022 9:09 AM

I just discovered something about wooden decks.  Decals will not stick very well to them.  Maybe if I masked off the stripes and just glossed those areas, will the decals stick?

But if I take the trouble to mask the stripes, I can just drybrush those markings.  Trying to decide.

 

  • Member since
    June 2018
  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Sunday, May 8, 2022 6:20 PM

I am agreeing with you TB about those out of scale decks. I just wanted to also point out that there are some good manufacturers out there too. As for the HMS Roberts, the main deck is painted but it has a small wood deck aft the superstructure.

Ben / DRUMS01

"Everyones the normal until you get to know them" (Unknown)

PROJECTS:

1/350 Tamiya Yamato WIP 

 

 

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Sunday, May 8, 2022 3:35 PM

Now, Drums01: 

      Those ships look good to me. What I was referring to is this. I saw an ArtWox deck for a W.W.11 Carrier. Fuggedaboudit! Number one the planking was to my eye, Out of Scale and for a not Blue stained deck to burned looking a color. I know the real carrier Deck was made of Oak, But C'Mon now!

       Okay, The H.M.S. Roberts is a great looking model. Does it have a wooden deck? See, on that one I couldn't tell.  

  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: West Virginia, USA
Posted by mfsob on Sunday, May 8, 2022 11:12 AM

This is one advantage to building mostly auxiliaries - if they have any wooden deck area, it's usually pretty small. I usually use an appropriate shade of Tamiya acrylic and call it done.

And as others have said, it's a hobby, and it's YOUR hobby. My current build is a 1/600 USS Missouri in her Korean War scheme. The main deck and 01 decks are unpainted wood. I looked at that longggggggg area of main deck, knew I could never get a decent finish brush painting it a deck tan ... so it's deck grey. A portion of the 01 deck ended up Tamiya buff, and it looks fine to me. It breaks up the grey, and that small area yielded an acceptable finish.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Saturday, May 7, 2022 12:29 PM

As TB points ut, decks are a funny thing.

As you walk them, they are mere feet away, and quite distinct.

At 1/350 an average person is going to be about 4mm off the deck as modeled.  That's a tad closer than most of us can get to our models.

At distance, things blur, too.  Here's an example:

That 20B Deck blue not helping any, either.

Here's the Whiskey, in the 80s:

There's a classic Life Magazine article from around 1940 with color photos showing one of the battleships firing off her main guns--the deck is wet down, and is a uniform amber sort of color, about where light golden maple syurp might render.

The joints between the planks are virtually indiscernable.

There are YT videos with folk using 1mm tape to mask out "planks" on models.  Which gives me an itch of sorts.  At 1/350 scale, that 1mm is 350mm wide, a hair over a foot in scale.  Artistically, I understand the notion, even as it nags at me. 

Much as my time as DivO/Dept Head/XO "tells" me that shipboard things are repaired in batches and patches.  That decks were not repaired one plank at a time, but fiddly bits that fit upon the metal sleepers under them.

  • Member since
    June 2018
  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Friday, May 6, 2022 6:52 PM

I would note that there are differences from one deck manufacturer to another. Almost anything I see from China is bright; the panel lines are indeed out of scale, and the real 1:1 wood grain will sort of ruin the effect unless you tint, stain, or color the deck. 

A company in the USA named "Scale Decks" offers a far more superior deck with a much thinner vineer, the lines are hard to see with the naked eye, and they use a special process to provide real variations for each deck board. They are almost paper thin but still strong. They are not self adheasive and will need a glue to fix them in place. While they are 3 to 6 times the price of the overseas product, they are definately much better, or at least authentic. 

In the end, the model is a hobby to enjoy. It is up to the builder to make something he is satisfied with. I have seen both painted plastic kit decks and vineer ones that are fantastic and also ones which are questionable (IMHO). I say get what you want and build it to your own satisfaction. After all, thats what makes the hobby world go round.

Ben / DRUMS01

"Everyones the normal until you get to know them" (Unknown)

PROJECTS:

1/350 Tamiya Yamato WIP 

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2015
Posted by Silly_me on Friday, May 6, 2022 4:39 PM

Tojo72

I used one once on my 1/350 Graf Spee,I liked the way it looked no further explanation needed.Just my [2cnts

And definitely no offense taken or felt toward other persons 2 cents

 

Same, I used one on a Yamato build and really liked the look (not even soot stained :D ).

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Friday, May 6, 2022 8:44 AM

Hey Surfsup; 

   I know there was not any criticism. The thing is I just wanted to make a point that you got. We build to suit ourselves. I just wish the people we have to buy from would get with the program.

  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: brisbane australia
Posted by surfsup on Thursday, May 5, 2022 10:03 PM

Tanker-Builder

Surfsup:

        I wasn't criticising anyone for building the way they want. That will never change. I just wish the Companies that supply us with that stuff would get it right! Think about it for a minute, They DO look good, But they look to good. I remember a friend telling me he would NEVER build a modern ship (1940s and up) with wood decks. When I asked why he simply stated,"They always look like they were "Just Built" and that's a No-No".

        He said and I quote again."When will they ever make stuff that looks Used"? "It all looks like it just came out of the Yard!"

 

Mate I never took you comments as a Criticsm. I just wanted to put some context into that all Modellers build their Kits in their own way using what they wish to . We all use different Materials and Techniques to make cleaner and quicker work in some area of our Modelling.

If i was your wife, i'd poison your tea! If Iwas your husband, I would drink it! WINSTON CHURCHILL

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Thursday, May 5, 2022 5:20 PM

Hi Tojo;

     Oh, I will admit to using them or a fascimile of them(Contact Paper) on sailing ships! I just couldn't find a good paint match. Then I discovered "Humbrol" " Deck Bleached teak" Whatta difference! But, that particular brand and color is no longer available. I have tried Acrylics but I haven't hit the right amount of white in the mix I guess, and all the tans are too yellow!

     I may try one though even after saying what I have, On the U.S.S.Kearsarge in W.W. 2. With the "Deck Blue " Wash I've come up, with It might change my mind.

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Thursday, May 5, 2022 5:14 PM

Surfsup:

        I wasn't criticising anyone for building the way they want. That will never change. I just wish the Companies that supply us with that stuff would get it right! Think about it for a minute, They DO look good, But they look to good. I remember a friend telling me he would NEVER build a modern ship (1940s and up) with wood decks. When I asked why he simply stated,"They always look like they were "Just Built" and that's a No-No".

        He said and I quote again."When will they ever make stuff that looks Used"? "It all looks like it just came out of the Yard!"

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Thursday, May 5, 2022 5:08 PM

Thanks,Gregbale!

   That's one aspect i didn't cover. I plumb forgot about that.. For instance My retired Coast Guard cutter had wood decks in the bridge area. It was an almost white/grey.

   I do digress, I did forget in the writing, about the Artistic part. There was a time I NEVER weathered anything.Now after spending so much of my life at Sea( nearly twenty eight years,) That some do like the newer look that an Artwox or other company's deck product can give a ship!

  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: brisbane australia
Posted by surfsup on Thursday, May 5, 2022 4:50 PM

I use them quite regularly and enjoy using them. You could say it would be like Aircraft modellers using Canopy Masks. You can mask and Paint them and you wanted to . The choice is up to the Modeller how they wish to build their Model their way.....Cheers mark

If i was your wife, i'd poison your tea! If Iwas your husband, I would drink it! WINSTON CHURCHILL

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Thursday, May 5, 2022 4:21 PM

I used one once on my 1/350 Graf Spee,I liked the way it looked no further explanation needed.Just my [2cnts

And definitely no offense taken or felt toward other persons 2 cents

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Towson MD
Posted by gregbale on Thursday, May 5, 2022 9:37 AM

While I agree with all your comments as to making a scale facsimile...the fact is, what many modelers (consciously or unconsciously) are going for is more of an 'artistic representation' -- something that catches the eye, rather than merely trying to replicate a sometimes rather drab reality.

That's largely the impetus for stuff like panel lines that look like tic-tac-toe grids, and 'weathering' that looks more like sand-blasting.

I've got no problem either way. It's your hobby and your free time, so do whatever gives you a sense of satisfaction at the end of the day.Big Smile

To which I will add -- and this one's a point I think TB might appreciate -- my beef with wood decks on models isn't so much planking or grain, but color. Far more of the wooden decks that I've seen on real ships...warships or commercial vessels...are some shade of grey, rather than the tan and brown tones one usually sees on models.

Just my 2 centsWink

Greg

George Lewis:

"Every time you correct me on my grammar I love you a little fewer."
 
  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Northeast WA State
Posted by armornut on Thursday, May 5, 2022 9:23 AM

  Nail on the proverbial head TB. Well put good sir. And thanks for keeping it "in perspective".Big Smile

we're modelers it's what we do

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Wooden Decks-WHY?
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Thursday, May 5, 2022 9:14 AM

Okay;

       I am ready, Blast away at me. Why? Because as a modeler of long standing I firmly believe that a Wooden Deck addition to any ship Model below 1/96 is a waste of time and money! Now, to Explain in a way that the Rivet Counters among us can understand. If you get a wooden deck kit for say the 1/200 U.S.S. Missouri does that deck make it Authentic? In my opinion NO!

       Why? Well, as a Purist (Another form of Rivet Counting, By the way) I believe if you could pull a " Honey, I shrunk Myself" situation to 1/200 scale you would suddenly find that the false wooden deck you put on that model requires a One Step Stool for me to walk up onto! So, That is by no means real! 

       Now, here's my real gripe about those things. Think about this carefully. When you Paint a plastic planked deck (Straight from the Box) Carefully and Artfully,(No bright colors that don't belong) At the distance of Three feet you cannot differentiate between the Planks, no matter where they go! As Modelers of a generation that had to rely on the uniquiness of a model and it's maker, We learned to scoff at raised line planks and in some cases engraved line planks. Why? True, they made the ship look Busier. That doesn't equate to a scale look!

       Besides, like Lindberg's and Revell's weld lines and plank lines No real ship would've had them. Yes, they would have been discernable up close and personal, but, in the various Box scales everyone came up with It would be impossible to deal with them. Yes, Thinking of scale people, think of 1/350, a Popular scale and looks great on some well built models, But those folks would fall down in the Gaps called Plank Lines if they could move around!

     It's just like the old "Rivet" thing. I never hear much about this at the Rail Museum, but I have heard folks talk about the Absolute authenticity of say an "N" Scale Pullman Car from the Thirties, "Oh, Yes, and it has all the rivets in the right place too, and that Flat car has great wood graining on it's deck". "Really? in that scale you shouldn't even be able to see those things!

      Now, I believe that this line of thought, should translate in our minds to ALL models. The day of Plank Lines in overscale and Rivets everywhere should come to an end. Why? Cause it just ain't in scale, Plain and Simple! I have owned three planes in my life and if you reduced them to 1/72 or 1/48 the rivets in certain panels would be almost or actually invisible! I leave this with a question. Those who use calculators should have fun with this. An Aircraft Rivet that stands proud in REAL LIFE should stick out how far on a 1/48 model? Now on wood grain (Ships Decks) As we look at a 1/350 or 1/450 ship, how clear should the wood grain really be? Remember, we are talking Teak now, a hard, fine grained wood. Sometimes Oak or Cedar. The grain difference between lumber isn't that great in that use.

     Go ahead and do this and get back to me. Meanwhile I will just continue sanding off Plank lines or Filling them and removing that mess of rivets from my 1/72 airplanes and " N " scale rivets and planks too!

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