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1/200 Yorktown build

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  • Member since
    August 2022
  • From: Houston, TX
1/200 Yorktown build
Posted by GS45570 on Saturday, September 17, 2022 2:15 PM
Hi folks
Starting a 1/200 Yorktown, to be built as morning of June 4th, from the Trumpeter kit. I already have ideas to resolve the “wrong hull.” (Other ideas welcome… Should there be other relevant threads, please link…)
My dad was age 7 in 1942, and infused his love of Midway to me. Since, I have read almost every Midway book, and have been collecting additional Yorktown-specific books for this project. I don’t propose 100% accuracy… (Despite the “deferred deployment,” for “happy modeler” purposes, I MUST have the whole [as launched] air group on deck…) I hope that "interested folks" may follow (assist)...

Nick

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Monday, September 19, 2022 3:50 PM

That kist comes with, what, 15 aircraft?  So you are around 60 short?

Arm yourself with good plans.  The hull is missing all its docking keels, which ought be pretty prominent.  The openings for the condensers  and their gratings over their seachests may only be in aftermarket offerings.

The open 5"38s could be serious candidates for replacement with 3d printed versions.

It will be your choice on whether to detail the 20mm mounts.  The issue being that they are both very prominnt, and very numerous.  Getting 3d replacement would help with uniformity of appearance, but would be a staggering expense, too.

You will need more 5-S Sea Blue and 5-O Ocean Gray paint.

You need Deck Gray for the hangar deck, but Deck blue for the rest of the exposed decks.

Your pick on portholes--they were menat to be plated over by USN doctrine; photo evidence is contradictory.  And a number of the portholes i nthe flared sides of the hull casting are elongated and not round.

Ben, over at Midwest Model Shop is going to start a video series on Enterprise (which, IIRC, is the same hull moulding)--he's going to waterline his kit.  (Of course, that's after he gets both of his Titanics finished.)

  • Member since
    August 2022
  • From: Houston, TX
Posted by GS45570 on Tuesday, September 20, 2022 10:35 AM

Many thanks for your reply! (My being new here, as a "recidivist offender," LOL!) 

I am most disturbed by the hull shape. I will certainly follow the suggested Midwest Model Shop build. 

But, all in all, I am maybe 60/40 regarding the air group vs. the ship to put them on... Not "new news," but for 50+ years manufacturers gave "short shrift" to the air groups on carrier models. Fortunately, I have found enough for the appropriate "deck spot" (The SBDs were flown from an Australian hobby shop...) With fantastic decals from Micellaneous Miniatures...

Nick

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Tuesday, September 20, 2022 2:14 PM

what is the matter with the hull shape?

  • Member since
    August 2022
  • From: Houston, TX
Posted by GS45570 on Tuesday, September 20, 2022 3:23 PM
Simply speaking, a “defining feature” of the class was the outward curvature of the upper hull. The prototype was vertical from the bilge curve (hope that’s the right terminology) to the waterline, and up a few decks. The hull then curved outboard. The waterline beam was a smidge over 83 feet, five inches in 1/200 scale.
The kit hull has a slight, even, slope. No distinct “flat” or “curve.” It measures 5.25” at the waterline.
While I hope to “right the wrong” of only 15 “afterthought” aircraft included in the kit, the factory hull is not acceptable as “the ship to put them on…”

Nick

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Wednesday, September 21, 2022 4:25 PM

ddp59

what is the matter with the hull shape?

Depends on how "rivet counter" you want to get.

But, they seem to have tried to "average" Enterprise, Yorktown, and Hornet hull forms, so as to make it easier to create the hull moulds.

Primary visual hiccup is the bulbous bow.  Followed closely by the line of the stem.

The Midships profile is askew, as noted above.  The hull was precisely designed to fit the 110' x 1050' x 40' Panama Canal locks, and the 30' "lift" distance along the canal walls.  Every thing else could be flared out and overhang those dimensions

Because the hull mould has curved sides, but the mould press is "abeam" the portholes have either elliptical or obong shaping (but they do have very delicate, to-scale rigoles cast over them).  This becomes an issue if using perfectly round PE porthole covers.

I have seen folk say that the island--a very nice one-piece slide moulding--is actually about 6-8 scale feet too narrow (about twice the error of the Tamiya 1/700 kit).

And, as noted above the underwater hull is utterly devoid of any detail, despite how prominent such detail would be at 1/200 (which may be back to "averaging" hulls to be able to offer more kits).

Now, to the good, there's no over-scale "plating" detail to cope with, and the slate is utterly blank and ready if a person wanted to "oil can" the hull

The deck-edge AA galleris re said to be near-perfect, and the catwalks are near spot-on (PE ought to address the catwalks with mesh floors, and fiddly bits like ordnance disposal chutes and the like).

There's even plating detail on the hangar deck surface, too.

So, there is good there, it's just wildflowers in the weeds.

  • Member since
    February 2018
  • From: North Carolina, USA
Posted by Model Monkey on Thursday, September 22, 2022 8:04 AM

Great subject.  Have popcorn in hand.

  • Member since
    August 2022
  • From: Houston, TX
Posted by GS45570 on Friday, September 23, 2022 4:43 PM
Thanks! I may be more of a “rivet counter” on the air group than the ship. Perhaps “heresy,” I have looked at a dozen launch photos of the bulbous bow on Yorktown, missing from the kit hull. Perhaps “shame on me,” but I don’t care as much as expected, about that. I care more about “above the waterline…”
As far as the ship, I am studying the “Big, obvious things.” Hull shape, and, we have a ton of historical photos of the island. (I have not yet pulled out the kit island for more than an initial cursory observation… But I know what I need to do to Make it Right, for my expectations, if necessary…)
I hope this does not make me “persona non grata” on the Fine Scale Modeler forum, but I am not interested in building an IPMS model of U.S.S. Yorktown. I am wanting to build a model of the Yorktown “I know,” from the many books I have read. A model that represents that. I hope I do not offend, if I appreciate, but do not necessarily follow, some suggestions.

Nick

  • Member since
    August 2022
  • From: Houston, TX
Posted by GS45570 on Monday, September 26, 2022 12:41 PM
I apologize if that came out a bit harsh. By way of explanation, I am, frankly, a bit intimidated here. From my brief exploration, there is an amazing wealth of knowledge here, and many models built to an amazing standard. While I have not seen it here (this site seems to be tightly moderated), I may be a bit “proactively paranoid,” having seen a lot of judgement on other Internet forums.

Nick

  • Member since
    August 2021
Posted by lurch on Monday, September 26, 2022 7:47 PM

GS45570 I believe this is a great site to get your info from. I to am on other sites and think this is the best to get the correct info that you are looking for. I am not a ship guy so I cannot answer your question accuratley. But I believe there are people here more qualified for that.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Thursday, September 29, 2022 3:45 PM

GS45570
I am, frankly, a bit intimidated here

And, yet, we all have feet of clay.

And, to be fair, this kit in many ways does not meet the standards "we" expect of 1/700 or 1/350 ships. 

Ok, sure, they need the kit to be "buildable" out of the box, which introduces certain features to the lit.  And the sheer quantity of repetitive parts becomes its own barrier to overcome--there are 4 dozen 20mm to build as identicaly as possible.  And 8 (IIRC) quad 40 mounts, too.  Plus the 8 open 5"38 mounts.  And both of those latter two are fiddling with lots of "bits" to sort out. 

And, ther eare plenty here who have trod those decks, too--which can make impressions of the ship "personal."

But, just like the "How do you eat a 12' sub sandwich?"  The answer is one bite at a time.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, September 29, 2022 4:24 PM

CapnMac82
But, just like the "How do you eat a 12' sub sandwich?"  The answer is one bite at a time.

If I were to build this kit it would take me ten years.

My 1/350 Hornet is about at year 5. It's pretty much done up to the flight deck and the aircraft are at about 50 % for the Navy and 0 % for the Army.

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Thursday, September 29, 2022 6:50 PM

CapnMac82, that Yorktown CV-5 never had quad 40mm aa guns but instead had quad 1.1" guns.

  • Member since
    August 2019
  • From: Central Oregon
Posted by HooYah Deep Sea on Friday, September 30, 2022 12:03 PM

You know, one would think that when 'they' got to 1/200 scale with a kit, 'they' would have ironed out the wrinkles and corrected the details .  .  .

Oh yeah; I just remembered the 1/200 ARIZONA kit .  .  .   what a mess.

Never mind !!!

"Why do I do this? Because the money's good, the scenery changes and they let me use explosives, okay?"

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Friday, September 30, 2022 12:34 PM

GS45570!

       This is one reason I don't build many "Bird Farms"! They NEVER do credit to either the amount or type of planes flown off them through the years. Even the Newer releases can't get it right. I won't go 1/200 on one anyway. After the Arizona I'm done!

      At least my Card model in 1/200 of the Andrea Doria was accurate!  That Carrier Did Not have Quad forties anyway. Whn I am not satisfied with the below waterline shape. I cut that part off and create "What If ships of all types instead!"

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, September 30, 2022 3:19 PM

After Coral Sea she added a bunch of 20s.

 

Bill

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Saturday, October 1, 2022 11:57 AM

ddp59
CapnMac82, that Yorktown CV-5 never had quad 40mm aa guns but instead had quad 1.1" guns

LoL--my brane was stuck on "essex" Smile

Feet of clay.

And a reflex aversion ot Chicago Pianos Smile

Also, I had just watched Ben's review of the KA add-on set for the 1/200 CV-6:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxbUfkvsHIM

  • Member since
    August 2022
  • From: Houston, TX
Posted by GS45570 on Monday, October 3, 2022 3:56 PM
Thanks for all the replies!
It sounds like I might just be simply “lucky,” in that my expectations of “accuracy” are “selective…”
I do intent to commit a couple of years to this build, to make the Yorktown that “makes me happy.” (While not spending a couple of additional years making it “perfectly historically accurate…”)
No doubt, I look forward to any and all additional input. I love always learning!!! (Just reserving the right to build the “imperfect” model of my dreams…)
As far as progress, I just need to “pull the trigger” on some more supplies before BuAir orders Douglass to begin a prototype SBD.
P.S. I forgot that my username is not my name. I’m Nick

Nick

  • Member since
    August 2022
  • From: Houston, TX
Posted by GS45570 on Monday, October 3, 2022 3:59 PM
I looked at the KA detail set/video. Tempting, but…  
As noted, I am more inclined to accurately modelling the “chicks” vs. the “nest.” The photo etched F4F landing gear got my attention. But, being realistic, I am satisfied with my existing plans to add one wire “V,” and, if possible, doors. I accept that further detail on the bottom of the aircraft may be “invisible overkill…”  However, it did occur to me recently that none of my strike group includes ordnance. The KA set does include really nice ordnance, but I have ordered BuOrd to begin the manufacture of the required ordnance in 1/200 scale. Should that fail, I think I can “make do” with scratchbuilding 1,000 lb bombs and Mk. XIII torpedoes from plastic rod.   
Further, I found a YouTubule on a 1/200 SBD
While nice, the canopy does appear as a bit of a “blob.” At minimum, planes about to launch should have their canopy open. I propose to experiment with vacuforming, but, if unsuccessful, I will at least cut the kit canopies apart. Photoetched rear twin 30’s would be a “wish list” item…

Nick

  • Member since
    August 2022
  • From: Houston, TX
Posted by GS45570 on Thursday, October 13, 2022 12:23 PM
Update, (and question) for interested parties and popcorn eaters LOL! Big Smile
Plans from Floating Drydock arrived yesterday. So, I now have templates for “hull reconstruction.”
I have been inventorying my available decals for the air group. Thank the heavens for Miscellaneous Miniatures! I think I bought out every one of their available “Midway-applicable” decal sets! Their VF-3 decal set has the usual 0-9, but with “23”, the aircraft Thach flew! (The Trumpeter decals fall into the category of “aircraft are only an afterthought on aircraft carrier models…” )
My current conundrum, in hopes of input… That Gallant Ship does include a couple of May 29 pics of VF-3. Obviously new F4F-4s. Outside of the pics of Max Leslie ditching alongside Astoria, pics of VB-3 and VT-3 seem non-existent…
Having lived “in comfort” on Oahu since Saratoga sailed for the states, I imagine VB-3 and VT-3 planes may have been rather “fresh” looking, with “current” national insignia…??? (Much to my dismay… Before buying Yorktown, I was tempted to do Enterprise, largely because the aircraft of Air Group Six may have looked a bit more used and “random.”)
Additional information/resources on VB-3 and VT-3 much appreciated…

 

(One of my favorite, but non-applicable, photos attached…)

 

Nick

  • Member since
    August 2007
  • From: back country of SO-CAL, at the birth place of Naval Aviation
Posted by DUSTER on Thursday, October 13, 2022 9:48 PM

GS45570
 
(One of my favorite, but non-applicable, photos attached…)

 

 The Deck Spotter earned his pay that day.

Steve

Building the perfect model---just not quite yet  Confused

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Friday, October 14, 2022 11:13 AM

DUSTER
The Deck Spotter earned his pay that day.

They had to be good--every inch they saved packingthem in on the bow was another inch to land upon.

Nice photo of a Chicago Piano, too.

  • Member since
    August 2022
  • From: Houston, TX
Posted by GS45570 on Sunday, October 16, 2022 9:34 AM

Sorry for reminding you of 1.1’s, Cap’n. Hope you kept your dinner down LOL!

Nick

  • Member since
    August 2022
  • From: Houston, TX
Posted by GS45570 on Thursday, November 10, 2022 12:43 PM
Small update… Paint for the air group is in hand. 
Received my plans from Floating Drydock, and have scanned and manipulated them into templates to “fix” the hull. About to install “hull spreader/supports,” parts “A-2, 4 and 5,” to provide support before I “whack away” with the Dremel. Then to add many new frames, “plank them,” and add a layer of “body filler.” I hope that my sanding skills, and patience, are up to the task…

Nick

  • Member since
    August 2022
  • From: Houston, TX
Posted by GS45570 on Thursday, November 10, 2022 1:11 PM

 

...more "air group centric worries..." I pulled out my dozen or so books on Midway, to review and verify the "status" of the aircraft, and deck spotting. My first two selections, Pacific Payback and The First Team, are entirely contradicroty on Yourktown launch order. Pacific Payback proposes Yorktown TBDs launched last, based on an article in The Hook in 1990 by VT-3 rear seat survivor Lloyd Childers. Meanwhile, in The First Team Lundstrom cites interviews with numerous officers supporting the "sensible and believeble" launch of the slower/shorter-ranged planes (TBDs) first... 
I have a bunch more books to check, but if there is any input, much appreciated. (The model in the Roger Chesnesu book does have the "traditional" spot of fighters first, but I am leaning the other way...)

Nick

  • Member since
    August 2022
  • From: Houston, TX
Posted by GS45570 on Friday, December 16, 2022 5:18 PM
Update on the progress of my Yorktown model…
I have scanned, re-sized, printed, and cut out (Thank goodness for computers…!!!) “Hull forms” from Yorktown plans. 
Unfortunately, it appears I need one or two more frames at each end to “merge” the “correct midship profile” with the Trumpeter hull before I apply the acetylene torch (Dremel cutoff wheel) and begin planking, in place of the “best efforts” of Trumpeter… 

Nick

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