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Conversion complete(this time for sure): USS Arizonas pre WWI

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  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Towson MD
Posted by gregbale on Friday, March 15, 2024 4:41 PM

JoeSMG
Another question to the forum: Does anyone know if the insides of the air ventilation stacks were a different color on US ships in the 1910s? Several nations chose to paint them differently from the rest of the superstructure. And as they are a prominent feature of Arizona in this period, I'd really like that color to be accurate.

I don't qualify as an expert, but based on 60 yrs or so of studying photos, I think any of that went out after the Spanish-American War and the 'Great White Fleet' era.

Greg

George Lewis:

"Every time you correct me on my grammar I love you a little fewer."
 
  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by JoeSMG on Friday, March 15, 2024 4:20 PM

More great pictures CapnMac, I had much the same thought that most photos had been adjusted to bring out whatever the photo processor thought important. My shot of the Arizona in the Panama Canal for instance, the jungle is likely too dark. After adjusting the brightness and contrast to give it a more likely shade, Arizona's shade of gray became lighter and much closer to what #5 should look like. But the turrets sure did get awfully light too!

 

Thanks Dave for the date confirmation.

 

Another question to the forum: Does anyone know if the insides of the air ventilation stacks were a different color on US ships in the 1910s? Several nations chose to paint them differently from the rest of the superstructure. And as they are a prominent feature of Arizona in this period, I'd really like that color to be accurate.

 

- Joe the SMG

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Thursday, March 14, 2024 7:38 PM

Joe, around the time of her commission which was Oct 17 1916, before the US entered the war.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Thursday, March 14, 2024 7:16 PM

JoeSMG
This one again makes me ask what color are her turrets? I'm sure you are right about all the rest of her, that could easily be Standard Navy Gray #5 though it seems a little dark.

We run into the ever-present problem from period photos--they were taken and printed so as to render the best visual contrast the camera, filme, lighting, and the photographer could manage.  Which was further "cranked upon" when the negative was "exposed" to print the photo.

Now, poking an eyball on the Canal photo, a couple of reference items pop out.  Those would be the bloomers on the guns and the shade tarp over the forecastle.  Those appear to be an unpainted 'raw' canvas, which is going to be a very pale whitish gray.

That gives a place to start comparing the turret color.

This time frame encompasses when "Range Clocks" and "Formation firing" were still common doctrine.  So, there is the possibility that the "off side" of the turret have vertical stadia stripes on them in #5 or even Black

This is USS California for reference

Now, if those turrets are a lighter color is ajudgement call, that's a somewhat over-exposed photo.
And, here's USS Mississippi

It's odd that the documentation for the paint scheme is so scanty, as it appears to be pretty common, here's USS New York i nthe Canal

With the distinctly pale turrets.

Your Mileage May Vary

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by JoeSMG on Thursday, March 14, 2024 4:55 PM

Dave - That is a great picture, nice and early, pre WW1? Being high res, clear and mostly full profile, it will help me design the older parts.

Ed - I googled "USS Arizona in panama canal" and there are some great pictures.
This one again makes me ask what color are her turrets? I'm sure you are right about all the rest of her, that could easily be Standard Navy Gray #5 though it seems a little dark.
Uss Arizona in Panama Canal

- Joe the SMG

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Thursday, March 14, 2024 1:11 PM

From 1919 when the fleet painted out of wartime color to April-ish, 1941 the Arizona was in Standard Navy Gray #5.    If you go to Archives and you put "Panama Canal + USS Arizona" into the search bar you can find some photos of the Arizona transiting the canal in the early part of the 20th century

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Thursday, March 14, 2024 12:57 PM

they are a work in process so will be a few more years before i get them done. did have links but removed them from the site that they were on due to site issues.

look at this link http://navsource.org/archives/01/039/013962.jpg then compare it to the model you posted as you'll see you have a lot of work to do.

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by JoeSMG on Thursday, March 14, 2024 11:46 AM

Thanks for the tips and links.
Have you completed your Arizona yet? Would love to see some pictures, if you have links please share them.

- Joe the SMG

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Thursday, March 14, 2024 11:42 AM

Revell model has the torpedo bulges but not the proper bulges the real ship has. that ledge on either side of the hull is the tops of the armor belt & torpedo bulges. you do know that you will have to remove the tripods & superstructure deck as not there at that time period as had cagemasts & open the upper hull sides to put in the casemates that was removed later in her life. what plans are you using to do this? i'm using 17 models of Revell's 1/429  scale Arizona as a basis to do all the battleships from the Wyoming class to the Colorado class during ww2.

read this link  if you have not already. http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/39a.htm

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by JoeSMG on Thursday, March 14, 2024 11:35 AM

Dec 1940 Arizona
OK - just looked at a finished version of the kit and compared it to the first pic I posted. I think I see what you mean now by “concave stern”. The Revell model shows an indentation after the last walled up stern casemated position that I don't see in the 1919 pic. Maybe I can print a plug for that, that just fits over? I’m guessing this will be harder than expected. I’ll keep you all posted.

 

- Joe the SMG

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by JoeSMG on Thursday, March 14, 2024 11:14 AM

ddp59

never known it a 1/423 scale when it is actually 1/429 scale & the math proves it. read this link on that scale. http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=286900

are you going to correct her concave stern & how are you going to fix her hull sides once you have removed her torpedo bulges as i have done that?

are you certain it is silver & not light gray?

 

Thanks for correcting my faulty memory on the box scale.
For the non deck hull parts, I'll just be putting the casemated guns back. I don't think the Revell kit has torpedo bulges, if so they aren't obvious like ones on models of Texas I've seen. Really wasn't planning on touching anything below the waterline. Maybe a waterline build is in order! :)

The color sure could be light gay in the pic I posted, though I've seen others where the reflectivity made me think silver. If light gray what would the hull have been? Dark Gray, Sea blue or Navy? Any of those combos would be attractive. Just have little written info to go on for her actual colors during this period.

- Joe the SMG

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Thursday, March 14, 2024 9:42 AM

never known it a 1/423 scale when it is actually 1/429 scale & the math proves it. read this link on that scale. http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=286900

are you going to correct her concave stern & how are you going to fix her hull sides once you have removed her torpedo bulges as i have done that?

are you certain it is silver & not light gray?

 

  • Member since
    January 2021
Conversion complete(this time for sure): USS Arizonas pre WWI
Posted by JoeSMG on Thursday, March 14, 2024 7:44 AM

 

I'm contemplating a conversion of the Revell 1/426 kit, using 3d printed parts to bring her back to her original configuration, and I have it in my head that there was a time when our early dreadnoughts had silver turrets. I even remember painting a version of her with them as a kid - I think the instructions may have lead me down that road as I have no idea what would have inspired me to do such, pre internet and all... Anyway the image of Arizona in her full on steam punk-ish original state, sporting silver turrets and cage masts is very appealing to me, but I do want it to be reasonably accurate.

 

Does anyone know of a source describing such an early paint schema where she had silver painted turrets? I've seen several black and white photo's where they look noticeably lighter than the rest of the ship (as seen below), so I'm reasonably sure it was a thing. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

 


early Uss Arizona pain schema

- Joe the SMG

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