Kinda sad tonight...

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, September 25, 2004 1:09 AM

I was in the Army, so I don't really know. I went through my training at Ft Benning in those old wood frame fire-traps built in WW2, and they were torn down in the late 80's but I don't think it's exactly the same. I had friends who were in units which had ceased to exist in the Table of Organization (like the 501 and 503 Inf Regts, now restored, I understand, but they had been disbanded), but I don't think that's exactly the same thing either.

John Keegan, in The Price of Admiralty, says when speaking of the HMS Victory, that there's something special about a fighting ship, and the weight of history it carries, like it's the ship, not the area of ocean that the battle took place in, that is the actual battlefield. And when a ship is preserved it's like the battlefield is preserved in the actual condition as the time of the battle.

People have been lamenting the fate of great and storied ships going to the breaker's yard for at least 200 years. There's a well known painting by (I think) William Turner, called The Fighting Temereraire, showing that famous ship headed for the breakers. How close was the Constitution, and even the Victory, to being broken up at one time or another? Thank goodness we've saved as much as we have.

Al

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, September 25, 2004 5:44 AM

"Doc",

Is that the USS GUAM? Didn't know they took her out that way. I can't sympathize with you (the ships I floated on are still on Active Duty) but to me it doesn't seem the way for a warship to go (as target practice). Angry [:(!]

I know a lot of the ships my Dad served on were either sold to foreign navies, scrapped, or turned into museums (USS MIDWAY). I'm sorry about that Doc. She'll always be on float as long as you have memories of her.

Semper Fi!

Carl

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Saturday, September 25, 2004 6:32 AM

Thanks Al, I think you are right.. the ship really was an entity of her own when we were out..

Carl, yeah that was the Guam.. some new anti shipping weapon they were working on... Thinking about this morning, maybe that is a better way for a warship to go than rotting in mothballs waiting to be sold for scrap...

Kinda sad they didn't use any of the LPH's as museums... not quiet the attraction as aircraft carriers and such... and it's understandable... there really wasn't anything to them without the air wing and marine detachment on board...

Thanks yall for letting an old sailor cry in his beer like that... I feel better now...

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, September 25, 2004 7:01 AM

I could be wrong, but I think LPH-11, USS NEW ORLEANS still survived. She was supposed to become a museum down on the New Orleans riverfront. All isn't lost yet. Smile [:)]

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grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Saturday, September 25, 2004 2:02 PM

It is always sad to see an "old friend" go. Although I was in the Army, I felt the same thing the first time I saw a HUEY used for target practice, we served in them and they became our "friends". Sad to see them go, wish they could be preserved. But they still remain in our(and others) memories.
John
Helicopters don't fly, they beat the air into submission

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, September 25, 2004 4:17 PM

Here...Here....John. Sign - Ditto [#ditto]

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Saturday, September 25, 2004 6:04 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by Dragonfire

I could be wrong, but I think LPH-11, USS NEW ORLEANS still survived. She was supposed to become a museum down on the New Orleans riverfront. All isn't lost yet.

Really? cool! I'll have to check in and make sure that is the same hull design as the Guam and see if I can find anything... it would be nice to go back and take those pics you never got to take, smell the smell of JP-5 again (although I know it won't be there) Walk through the areas I used to spend my time in...

thanks!

--Tom--

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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therriman

Member since
January 2003
From: Central MI

Posted by therriman on Saturday, September 25, 2004 6:44 PM

I know your pain. I served on the USS Guadalcanal (LPH-7) for 3 years (81 to 84). The Intrepid museum wanted to buy her and put her there, but funding fell short.
And one day I was one one of my Referance sites ( www.navsource.org ) and found photo's of my last ship USS Caron (DD-970) (the one I was on during Desert Storm no less) going down. Here is one of the photo's:

Tim H. "If your alone and you meet a Zero, run like hell. Your outnumbered" Capt Joe Foss, Guadalcanal 1942 Real Trucks have 18 wheels. Anything less is just a Toy! I am in shape. Hey, Round is a shape! Reality is a concept not yet proven.

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Sunday, September 26, 2004 9:01 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by therriman

I know your pain. I served on the USS Guadalcanal (LPH-7) for 3 years (81 to 84). The Intrepid museum wanted to buy her and put her there, but funding fell short.
And one day I was one one of my Referance sites ( www.navsource.org ) and found photo's of my last ship USS Caron (DD-970) (the one I was on during Desert Storm no less) going down. Here is one of the photo's:

another survivor of a gator frieghter!!!

I saw that pic of the Caron.... that's sad... at least the Guam went quickly... The Guadalcanal, Inchon and New Orleans are the only survivors of them all according to that navsource link you sent me.

for those of you who haven't been on a ship, it really is like seing a person die in a wierd way, when it was "your" ship at least... the ship really is the men and stories attached to it.. there is a literal attachment to the ship and your "home" In a sense the ship is "alive" and we spoke of her like a person or a living thing... our brothers in green like Grandadjohn hit it right when he said about the Huey's.. "They were our friends"

here's therriman's photo 'snatched' from their website, I guess they don't allow linking...

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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Jeff Herne

Member since
January 2003

Posted by Jeff Herne on Sunday, September 26, 2004 10:34 AM

It certainly makes you depressed...although I'm not former Navy, at this point in my life, ships are a passion...I wonder now what my reasoning for wanting tanks over ships was so many years ago.

There's a long list of ships that we as a society should have saved, not because we miss them today, but because they were historically significant back then, and we knew it...but the anxiety of war, and the desire to wipe away the images of those years of conflict, destined many to the scrapper's torch. Just off the top of my head:

USS Enterprise CV-6
USS Saratoga CV-3
USS San Francisco
USS Fletcher
any one of the Civil War Monitors
HMS Dreadnought
HMS Sheffield

I read over on Steelnavy that the Chinese have actually built a 1:1 scale model of one of their early pre-dreadnought battleships...the name escapes me at present, but this ship is beautiful...and was launched amidst much fanfare and celebration. For us, we can't even take care of the historic ships we have now (USS Olympia is rotting away). We're so concerned with everyone else's financial woes in the world that we neglect our own historical preservation...when you think about all the foriegn aid we provide to the world, why can't 50 million be put aside every couple of years and divided amongst our museum ships, battleground sites, and other historical places?

Sorry for the rant...

Jeff

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Sunday, September 26, 2004 1:13 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jeff_Herne

There's a long list of ships that we as a society should have saved, not because we miss them today, but because they were historically significant back then, and we knew it...but the anxiety of war, and the desire to wipe away the images of those years of conflict, destined many to the scrapper's torch. Just off the top of my head:

USS Enterprise CV-6
USS Saratoga CV-3
USS San Francisco
USS Fletcher
any one of the Civil War Monitors
HMS Dreadnought
HMS Sheffield

I agree wholeheartedly... the only reason the Lexington survived is because enough aviators went across her decks when she was a trainer to make a "voice" to save her be heard... there's not enough of us to save em... sadly enough... the NEw Orleans was supposed to be bought by the city of New Orleans to have as a museum... that fell through... then Long Beach wanted her, they were going to put her right next to the Queen Elizabeth... no dice there, they couldn't dish up the money the governement wanted and preserve her as well... so where is she now??? waiting to be towed off shore to be used as target practice...

As a side note... at least (through a private foundation) the CSS Hunley is getting the respect it deserves... they are moving into the preservation phase soon I understand... it would be neat one day to go see the worlds first reported sub used in combat...

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 26, 2004 3:31 PM

Starting a rant...I thought they should have signed the Surrender (VJ Day) on the USS ENTERPRISE (CV-6) rather than the Might Mo'. That carrier was in more campaigns during Pacific Theater action than any other ship. I'm off now. Big Smile [:D]

Sad to hear the NEW ORLEANS is now MIA after two cities couldn't get her. The rest of the "Sprucans" are on their way out of the Navy also. Literally only a handful left.

At least we can point to a good news story...the USS CONSTITUTION is still afloat and on Active Duty. Smile [:)]

What other country can say that they have an original warship from the 18th Century still afloat on active register? HMS VICTORY comes close, but she is on display in drydock in Portsmouth, England.

Semper Fi to all those who sailed the seas in these mighty ships and to those who flew the skies in those man-made Angels of Mercy.

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grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Sunday, September 26, 2004 4:56 PM

I don't mean to rant.
Though there was some effort to save the USS Enterprise (CV-6), at least in a since she still serve's. Her steel went into USS Enterprise (CVN-65). My son served on her and I did get a chance to see her.
John
Helicopter's don't fly, they beat the air into submission

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 27, 2004 1:46 AM

Found a couple of good quotes inspired by RN's 1838 decision to have the Temeraire broken up. Forgive the length of the second, but I think it's reallly well said..

"We ought not, in common gratitude, to sacrifice these noble old champions of ours, but we should have somewhere a museum of their skeletons, which our children might visit, and think of the brave deeds that were done in them. The bones of the Agammemnon and the Captain, the Vanguard, the Culloden, and the Victory ought to be sacred relics...Think of them when alive, and braving the battle and the breeze..."
William Makepeace Thackery

"No ruin was ever so affecting as the gliding of this vessel to her grave. A ruin cannot be. For whatever memories may be connected with it, and whatever witness it may have borne to the courage or glory of men, it never seems to have offered itself to their danger, and associated itself with their acts, as a ship of battle can...
And this particular vessel, crowned in the Trafalgar hour of trial with chief victory prevailing over the fatal vessel that had given Nelson death, surely, if anything without a soul deserved honour or affection, we owed them here...
...surely for these some sacred care might have been left in our thoughts, some quiet space amidst the lapse of English waters? Nay, not so.
We have stern keepers, to trust her glory to the fire and the worm. Never more shall sunset lay golden robe on her, nor starlight tremble on the waves that part at her gliding. Perhaps, where the low gate opens to some cottage garden, the tired traveller may ask, idly, why the moss grows so green on its rugged wood; and even the sailor's child may not answer, nor know, that the night-dew lies deep in the war-wounds of the wood of the old Temeraire."
John Ruskin.

Al

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Jeff Herne

Member since
January 2003

Posted by Jeff Herne on Monday, September 27, 2004 6:48 AM

Well put...

Jeff

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scottrc

Member since
December 2003
From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W

Posted by scottrc on Monday, September 27, 2004 7:37 AM

I feel for you as well. I go to Haze Grey a lot to visit the old Ranger from time to time and remember what she looked like when I reported to her. She just came out of a SLEP and was in her Sunday Best with all new paint. Now that ship is all grey and rust, and looks like a body at a funeral wake, all pale, shallow, and void of life. Its funny, my wife and people who never experienced life aboad a ship will never fathom why we have such a fondness for our ships. Well, my ship was my first home away from home, a place where I went from boyhood to manhood, a place where I met many different people from many different places, a place where I experienced pain, fear, and happiness, a place where I found adventure, and learned what compete boredom really felt like. Kinda like that old Dodge I had where I experienced my first "encounter" with the opposite sex. I will never forget the ships I served on and will feel a loss when I hear and see their demise.

I am working with members from the Oriskany at present, and they are gripping with the future sinking of that ship. However, it is getting a lot of press and fanfare, and will have a much better end than the Bennington. They cut a hole in her flightdeck, pushed the island into the hole, and sent the ship to India where it was cut up like a deer being slaughtered by a pack of wolves.

That is one ending that I really hate to see. One of our navel ships being bought by a foreign country and exploited for cheap labor and to dodge environmental regulations. I read about the Bunker Hill and when it was sold to Japan for its scrap metal. How ironic, the same country that killed so many of her crew, and could not sink her in war, was able to cut her apart and profit from her steel; and scrap steel was a comodity that Japan went to war with us over.

I'm done now SoapBox [soapbox]

Scott

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Winnie

Member since
February 2004

Posted by Winnie on Monday, September 27, 2004 8:59 AM

They killed my Caron?[:0] Disapprove [V]

I crossdecked for a week on her when she was in Norway in 1995. I still have my hat, but it will be cherished much more now. This makes me sad...

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Monday, September 27, 2004 8:08 PM

wow... this has been the most interesting thread I have posted on so far... First finding out there are so many sailors that felt the same way about their ships... (said proudly THEIR ships! as in ownership) But this has really raised my awareness over what is happening wholesale to the history of the US Navy... for all they speak of heritage there is none... In fact the only right I see done in the transferrence of ONE ship I researched was when they sold an LST to Spain and she is now docked at Rota... where she spent many a day in her life... and still may be gazed upon by the sailors who sailed her...

thanks Alenam for the qoutes, I have saved both and am planning some sort of something for my wall with one or the other... now If I can find a sillouette of the Guam in black...

scott, you put it better than I could... the experiences we had on the ship can never be replaced... I can still see the California bar in Haifa in my head... and remember the night we stayed at the Mt. Carmel (5 star hotel) and found out the next morning that the fridge of liqour we opened the night before was gonna cost us $300.00... then they looked both ways and said because we were sailors they would write it off...

or the hooker in a bar in Rota I just knew had a ragin case of bronchitis... so I talked to one of the doctors and he looked the other way while I pilfered some meds from the pharmacy (I was a Corpsman, medic for the non Navy types, and went on to become a Respiratory Therapist.. just so the story makes more sense to yall haha)... that next day she was waiting with her family by the ship and her family took me all over southern Spain showing me around... they appreciated I not only didn't further her business (i.e. didn't take her up on her offer) which they didn't like (her business)... but I helped her out knowing what she was...

I remember the medevacs I flew off her... the one Marine all of 18 yrs old who picked up a wierd bacterial pneumonia in Turkey... and finding out in-air refueling in a CH-53 is not all it's cracked up to be.. and also finding out from the crew chief that the hydraulic fluid leaking onto me was normal... and if it stopped would I please let him know because it meant something was wrong... we had to fly about 100ft above sealevel from Turkey to Sigonella... he'd turn blue every time we got higher that that... then there was a 3 hour plane ride to Rhine Mein and another hour by bus to Weisbaden... the doctor I flew with spent 17 yrs at the embassy in Berlin as a doctor for the Marines there and had frined in the country.. after 20+ hours with no sleep, doused in hydraulic fluid and hungry as anything... we got to this huys house and he broke out the scotch.... still can't drink the stuff today!!!!

anyway I could go on all night... but I guess this has all been good for me.. not that I was really that sad... just reflective I guess... and it was good in the fact that I went back through each memory to make sure I didn't miss even one... because the only other thing to remind me of them is gone now, well that and my ships hat...

and if nothing else I got to do what sailors do best... stand by the scuttlebutt and jack my jaws about how the grass was always greener at my last command.. Wink [;)]

Thanks to my shipmates! And my friends in green as well! And most definitely to the ones who didn't serve as well... As we used to say... I'd serve with you anytime...

The modeller formerly known as 'Doc'

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Monday, September 27, 2004 8:16 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by Dragonfire

At least we can point to a good news story...the USS CONSTITUTION is still afloat and on Active Duty. What other country can say that they have an original warship from the 18th Century still afloat on active register? HMS VICTORY comes close, but she is on display in drydock in Portsmouth, England.

Semper Fi to all those who sailed the seas in these mighty ships and to those who flew the skies in those man-made Angels of Mercy.

also it's not widely known, but the Constellation is also afloat... in Baltimore Harbor.... the last all sail ship used by the Navy... in fact she was still in service until 1945 as the relief flagship of LANTFLT. Built in 1853

---Tom---

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Monday, September 27, 2004 8:28 PM

speaking of that... I just remembered I have a link to a guy who does ship prints... he draws them himself the reproduces them.. they look pretty good and it looks like he has quite a few vessel classes... he can put your name and rank at time of serving on her, any qoutes etc you might want added... you can read about it on his website: they look pretty nice

http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/woodblox/myhomepage/index.htm?mtbrand=AOL_US

oh yeah Tim and Winnie... they have the Caron too...

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 1:08 AM

Doc!

That is an awesome website you found! Thanks for sharing. My Dad had seven different ships during his career and every single one of them has been decommed. One survived to be a museum.

Semper Fi!

Carl

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 6:08 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by Dragonfire

Doc!

That is an awesome website you found! Thanks for sharing. My Dad had seven different ships during his career and every single one of them has been decommed. One survived to be a museum.

Semper Fi!

Carl

Thanks Carl... I would love to get one for my dad but he was with Amphibious Landing Craft squadrons most of his career and I didn't see any LCM's or LST's on that sight haha... he's retired now and in the Coast Guard Auxillary maybe I'll look up any of the cutters stationed near here...

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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styrene

Member since
May 2003
From: The flat lands of the Southeast

Posted by styrene on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 11:27 AM

Interestingly, the USS North Carolina would also be lying on the bottom of the sea had it not been for all the dimes collected by students in the public schools around 1960-61. Turns out there was a big "save the North Carolina" fund in the works. Thanks in part to that effort, we can enjoy a great historical exhibit in Wilmington, NC. It was fun being part of that effort.

Gip Winecoff

1882: "God is dead"--F. Nietzsche

1900: "Nietzsche is dead"--God

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MackP

Member since
December 2002
From: USA

Posted by MackP on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 9:54 PM

I left my destroyer (USS O'BRIEN DD 725) in 1961. In the 80s I learned she'd been "expended as a target" in 1972. This year I found pictures of her sinking on a website < destroyersonline.com >. The final shot shows her broken in half and the bow and stern both pointed skyward. Yes, it's choked me up. She was my home for awhile and her crews were my brothers. She was blooded by a German shore battery right after the D-Day invasion in 1944; rebuilt and hit by a KamiKaze at Okinawa in 1945: rebuilt and served in Korea; modernized and served in Vietnam. I'm glad she was put to rest by friends: the men of the Seals and UDT. She earned the right of that honor.
I wish someone marketed a model of a Sumner class tincan of the 1950s, before the Fram modernization, in 1:350.

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cplchilly

Member since
January 2004
From: SO CAL

Posted by cplchilly on Thursday, September 30, 2004 12:06 AM

Although I served as a Marine I did 2 WESPACS one on the Tuscaloosa (if I remember correctly) and another that that I cant remember offhand. We had some great times on board, sometimes nothing more than sitting up on deck playing spades and watching the seasick heave over the sides. We met some great people on board and got to see a lot of the world so to all you fellas that served on board ships thank you.

[img]http://members.fcc.net/ice9/badge.jpg

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therriman

Member since
January 2003
From: Central MI

Posted by therriman on Thursday, September 30, 2004 10:31 AM

I just seen on the navsource website that of the 4 ship's I was on, the only one still in commission (the USS Stump DD-978) is due to be decommed on Oct 19, 2004 Sad [:(]

I guess I'm getting old.

Tim H. "If your alone and you meet a Zero, run like hell. Your outnumbered" Capt Joe Foss, Guadalcanal 1942 Real Trucks have 18 wheels. Anything less is just a Toy! I am in shape. Hey, Round is a shape! Reality is a concept not yet proven.

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Thursday, September 30, 2004 8:46 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by cplchilly

Although I served as a Marine I did 2 WESPACS one on the Tuscaloosa (if I remember correctly) and another that that I cant remember offhand. We had some great times on board, sometimes nothing more than sitting up on deck playing spades and watching the seasick heave over the sides. We met some great people on board and got to see a lot of the world so to all you fellas that served on board ships thank you.

Chilly... do you know to this day I can't stand the sight, nor the sound of the word "Spades" or even "Hearts" to a lesser degree Wink [;)]

I think my two deployments combined I played a total of 3,297.5 hands of the two combined... the .5 is the night I had to cut out early because the next day I had watcht... cirbbage I never got into but that was mentioned as much...

In 1986/7 during my first cruise I saw "Ferris Beullers Day Off" 1,924 times thanks to Weapons Platoon with 24th MAU who the team I was with bunked with.... every night at 20:00 a collective groan came out of us squid minded guys... the platoon leader immediately stood up and wanted to know who the h@ll did that hahha.. it was his tape and his VCR and he'd fight anyone who wanted to change the movie...

During my second deployment I berthed with Battalion Recon, 2/6 Battalion, 26th MEU(SOC)... I watched "I Love Lucy" re-runs along with a sniper (that was HIS tape and you watch it or face his wrath! (pretty buff guy)) till I dreamed *I* was Ricky Ricardo and Lucy was my b.... well you get the picture..

haha but I loved being out with yall... I don't think I would have wanted it any other way... my dad is a former marine and so was his dad etc.. etc.. etc.. about 5 generations back... one of the nice things about being a Doc... when we were on liberty we didn't have to worry about getting in fights with Navy people (cause of you Marines), the locals were no prob(cause of yall)... and a Marine would never touch a Doc... and best of all a Marine would go up against Goliath himself (or even another Marine) to help out Doc... (poor old drunk Doc, I should say haha)

Semper Fi to all my little green sea sick Marine friends... and to my shipmates, I say fair winds and a following sea! And to my Army buddies (I had the chance to serve at Ft. Sam going to Respiratory Therapy School at AMMED for over a year, honorary member of the Army Medical Battalion or something like that, lost the certificate) You're my little green friends too... I gained a lot of respect for the Army during that time... but they needed to teach yall better rank and recognition in basic! Everytime I went to the PX about 50 Privates up to PFC's would be standing outside the PX with an Ice Cream cone in their hands saluting me because I had birds on my collar! (wearing my Eisenhower) haha (the NCO rank badges have an eagle over the chevrons) they probably thought I was the youngest colonel known to the US Navy!

Thanks to all of yall for replying to this post, military, and non-miltary types as well!!!! It was kind of cathartic for me, and it was nice to see others felt similar about losing a icon of your life... whether it was a Huey, a model of a ship, or your home, your love, your entire town for years...

Wow... I think I might have hit on something... when we were out to sea, except for liberty.. we were a self enclosed community... I guess it would be like going back to the city where you lived as a kid and find it has been totally destroyed... I guess that would help explain it to someone who hasnt been underway, or like Granddad said "lost a friend" BTW I like that Grandad... it explains a lot... these things were real.. not made out of metal.. but made of the love for them of the people who were on them... Huey, Ship, Tank, etc...

---Tom---

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Thursday, September 30, 2004 8:56 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by therriman

I just seen on the navsource website that of the 4 ship's I was on, the only one still in commission (the USS Stump DD-978) is due to be decommed on Oct 19, 2004

I guess I'm getting old.

We're both getting old Tim... the Guam was commisioned the year before I was born... the Austin 2 yrs before I was born... both ships were or are over 40.. (Austin is still in commision, it was built on the lines of the Mt. Whitney so can be used as a command and control ship... (LCC) the others are all decom as far as I know)

My dad was already a SGT, USMC when they were commisioned... I was but a very far off twinkle in his eye...

Of course until 1992 or so the Lexington was still flying sailors off its' decks every day... 1943 to 1992ish... but she was an icon of a different time, WWII.... the two I was on were icons of Viet Nam... that could account for some... plus the fact that by 1992 the aviators who trained on her decks post Nam were now CAPT and perhaps above may have helped her survival...

---Tom---

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, October 1, 2004 12:31 AM

Tom,

There a a lot of the LPHs still around both East and West Coast. Like mentioned earlier, the AUSTIN is still pumping. Here are a couple of West Coast active duty LPHs with Vietnam ribbons on the bridge wings:

USS DULUTH
USS DUBUQUE
USS DENVER
USS AUSTIN
USS JUNEAU

Semper Fi!

Carl

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, October 1, 2004 12:35 AM

A note on the USS DENVER...General Jones (former Commandant of the Marine Corps, now EUCOM and Supreme Allied Command Europe) deployed on the DENVER back when he was a 2ndLt during Vietnam. Before the BELLEAU WOOD ARG deployed in 2002, he came to San Diego to visit his son (a new 2ndLt) who was also deploying on the DENVER with 11th MEU(SOC). Talk about history.

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Friday, October 1, 2004 6:22 AM

cool Carl, I didn't look into it but the Austin was the only one I knew about... interesting they moved her to the west coast... she used to be at Little Creek, VA.

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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therriman

Member since
January 2003
From: Central MI

Posted by therriman on Friday, October 1, 2004 6:26 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by Dragonfire

Tom,

There a a lot of the LPHs still around both East and West Coast. Like mentioned earlier, the AUSTIN is still pumping. Here are a couple of West Coast active duty LPHs with Vietnam ribbons on the bridge wings:

USS DULUTH
USS DUBUQUE
USS DENVER
USS AUSTIN
USS JUNEAU

Semper Fi!

Carl

Actually these are LPD's

Tim H. "If your alone and you meet a Zero, run like hell. Your outnumbered" Capt Joe Foss, Guadalcanal 1942 Real Trucks have 18 wheels. Anything less is just a Toy! I am in shape. Hey, Round is a shape! Reality is a concept not yet proven.

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Friday, October 1, 2004 8:13 AM

oh yeah! I didn't even notice that... I just saw all the ship names and thought LPD... yeah the LPH's are the Guam, Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima etc... there are a few non standard (for the class) names... the Boxer, the New Orleans etc which were converted Essex class CV's and CVE's

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, October 1, 2004 12:33 PM

Therriman,

You're right...I had a brainfart on that one. Big Smile [:D]

Tom,

The AUSTIN is still based off the East Coast. Below is a link showing all active duty LPDs and homeports.

http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/factfile/ships/ship-lpd.html

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Saturday, October 2, 2004 8:57 AM

the new LPD's look kinda neat, that would make a good kit too... no one likes the gator freighters tho... not as impressive as a battleship or carrier to most...

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

Reply

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, October 2, 2004 1:22 PM

Maybe it's up to us "Gator Sailors and Marines" to push the issue to get the "Gator Navy" built in plastic Smile [:)]

. I'm betting that Dragon will build the SAN ANTONIO Class soon after their commissioning or first couple deployments. New ship, new model.

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Saturday, October 2, 2004 5:48 PM

especially with them having a bit of that 'stealth' look to them... hmm I am forming an idea... maybe we need to all start mailing them... it probably won't mean a hill of beans to them... but it wouldn't hurt!

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

Reply

grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Saturday, October 2, 2004 7:24 PM

Some listen, contact them at
www.dragon-models.com
by the way Tom, I know the difference between an eagle and a crow.
Thanks for your comments. they were a lot more the hunks of metal.
John
Helicopters don't fly, they beat the air into submission

Reply

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, October 3, 2004 12:36 AM

Ah, Little Creek... spent a week or so there in 86. Why anyone sent an Army battalion to Amphibious Warfare school, I'll never know. We had fun though. It was cool being waited on in the mess hall on shore (I was an E-4 at the time). I had no trouble with the Navy ranks, but trying to make sense of the ratings was another matter, BM3 and EW2 was just so much WTFO to me.
We spent a couple of nights on the Harlan County, anybody know what kind of ship that was? It was meant to carry Marines and it had a well deck, but I don't really remember much about it. We were clueless. We thought the life raft pods were depth charges, couldn't be counted on to salute in proper sequence when coming aboard or going ashore...They made us go over the sides on cargo nets into flat-bottom LCUs (or whatever those things were called)--one real bad casualty on that, an RTO in another company slipped off and landed on his radio, broken back--and we also got rides in those L(more alphabet soup)-7 tracks.
All the E-7s wished they'd joined the Navy (on account of the way the Navy treats the Chiefs).
What I remember most is my platoon being tasked to play OPFOR against the battalion in the final exercise. 33 guys against over 400 and we lazed the heck out of them. Then in the after-action review the Marine instructors said "Don't blame your OPFOR, they did a really good job, If this had been real, you would have taken a lot of casualties. BUT you achieved the mission objective and you took less than 60 percent casualties, which in the Marines we consider an acceptable level for an opposed landing." Holy Cow, 60 percent casualties is a reality that Marines live with. That gave me something to think about.
Al

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Sunday, October 3, 2004 7:51 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by grandadjohn

Some listen, contact them at
www.dragon-models.com
by the way Tom, I know the difference between an eagle and a crow.
Thanks for your comments. they were a lot more the hunks of metal.
John
Helicopters don't fly, they beat the air into submission

haha yeah mostly SP4 and up had no probs, these kids were mostly just out of basic though and were going by the adage "when in doubt salute" I think we all went through that at one point or another...

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

Reply

tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Sunday, October 3, 2004 8:09 AM

yeah now you know how I felt being stationed at an Army post Al, it's a whole different world when you cross over into each others worlds... I loved Ft. Sam... the interesting thing is we did a neonatal ICU clinical at Wilford Hall AF Hosptal in San Antonio... the first time through the chow line was unbelievable... it was like a Lubies on steroids! Those AF guys were pampered... on Thursdays they had live entrertainment and matching cuisine to boot... one time it was Mexican food and they had a mariachi band serenading us, the next time it was some French dish and it was a jazz band etc... I woulda crossed over just for the food!

Sometimes it got a little confusing for us too... the rating thing... what was really confusing in the medical field is we had the MOS type numbering for our specialties (NEC's) ... we were all corpsman, but I was a 8451, but a 8541 was a Nuclear Med Tech I think, etc.. etc..

Most of them were easy MM (Machinist's Mate) EW (Electronic Warfare specialist) it was when they added letters to the thing... I can't remember anything specific but it would be like thakin a Gunner's Mate GM, and then you suddenyl come upon a GMGS (I made that up) or something, and you have to figure out the rest of the rating...

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

Reply

tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Sunday, October 3, 2004 8:18 AM

oh yeah Al, I almost forgot... USS Harlan County was LST 1196, she's been decommed but is serving with the Spanish Navy... as L-42 Pizarro

here's a link to a page on her: http://navysite.de/lst/lst1196.htm

we used to feel sorry for those guys on the LST's, it's like crossing the atlantic in an aluminum jon-boat. The waves tossed those things around like rubber duckies... one minute you see them, the next they are gone... then they would come bursting up from under a wave only to do it again... (we're talking 20+ foot waves)

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

Reply

tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Sunday, October 3, 2004 8:25 AM

I'd like to interject another comment, and I feel kind of bad for starting this in the ships forum because it is a bit off topic, somewhat on topic as it deals with ships, and a lot of ship data has been presented in it... but we stray now and then and stroll down military memory lane..

no one's expressed offense so I guess they either ignore it or join in... I just felt if anyone understood what I was feeling, someone in here would... and maybe it's shown some model ship builder some more of what the real ships were constructed of.. and Hueys etc.. etc.. etc.. it seems no matter what military branch, our tools are our life... and we come to love them. Not as tools of destruction, or bringers of death, but as well maintained, almost living things that become part of us, part of our unit... or maybe it is us that becomes part of them...

of course there are those that never felt the way we do that served, and thier opinion is thiers and I respect that... but so far it is eye opening to see the similarity in all of what we worked with, served on etc...

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Sunday, October 3, 2004 9:50 AM

Don't feel bad. I think what you started was needed and it has been an eye opener for me too.

I think that we all had similar feelings about our ship's or aircraft. They were all that you said and I might add each had its own personality. A trip down memory lane? Maybe. But this is also part of our hobby, to help preserve history, be it a ship, or aircraft or tank. This is for our childern and our grandchildern. Since we can't preserve them all, models take their place. Having fun trying to teach my grandson to say "HUEY" and " big iron bird" when an airplane flies over and listening to my granddaughter saying "this will be the horse we ride" from WE Were Soldiers clips on TV when the HUEY flew by the hanger.

I have enjoyed reading this topic and have found that regardless of which branch we served (I have had friends that served in all branchs) in our feelings are the same.

From Shakespere:
"From this day to the ending of the world,
But we it it shall be rememer'd;
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he today sheds his blood with me shall be my brother."

John
Helicopters don't fly, they beat the air into submission

P.S. try
www.trumpeter-china.com
they seem to listen to what we want

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Sunday, October 3, 2004 11:01 AM

Well said grandad... not to associate us with that TV show... but we are all a band of brothers... for all the competitiveness while in service we are all one now... (.ie.e the names we had for each other like squid, puddle pirate (USCG), jar head etc...)

It would be hard for someone else to understand the feelings I get when I see a CH-46 fly over, or I am sure you get when you see a Huey... it's almost like seeing a best friend you haven't had contact with in years... but they were always inside you...

Thanks for your feedback, it feels good to be part of this....

History is more than what it did, where it went and what FS color it was painted... it is about the men who flew her, served on her, loved her...

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

Reply

tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Friday, October 8, 2004 9:21 PM

ok.. all of us squids, jarheads, and dogfaces that remember what it feels like to love a piece of metal... and even those who just like ships period... lets go to the trumpeter site and say something.. ok we're only 10 or so people but let's make a stand... nothing will happen I am sure.. but let's at least say something for a class of icons, our ships... that we served on.. loved, or felt the same about another craft (Huey etc..) about and understand...

Ask for an LPH or an LPD... 1/400 or better...

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, October 9, 2004 12:10 AM

Doc...which department did you send your email to? Was it the U.S. Sales Dept...Stevens Int'l?

Carl

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Saturday, October 9, 2004 8:59 AM

no I sent it to this one Carl...

88wxl@trumpeter-china.com

thats the design and technology dept. I guess one to marketing wouldnt hurt either... I got it off here: http://www.gzysd.com/war513/resume/en_callme.asp

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Saturday, October 9, 2004 9:07 PM

Roger that, Doc
1/350 sound's good
Never called a Doc a name
Out
John

Helicopter's don't fly, they beat the air into submission

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, October 10, 2004 1:46 AM

Doc,

Email has been launched.

Carl

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Sunday, October 10, 2004 7:42 AM

They already emailed back!! wow wasn't expecting that... of course he thnks 1/700 is big enough... (grumble grumble...'tiny little things'...grumble)
He wants specs though so I guess I have to start digging... I'll have to call his bluff and actually produce some plans or something...

here it is:

Dear Sir

Thank you very much for your suggestion for the ships. Yes, we have a
possibility to release the kits but first we must research much more
data and i think 1/700 would be fine, any questions please advise!

Do you have any data for them?

Best regards
Jackson

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Sunday, October 10, 2004 7:43 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by grandadjohn

Never called a Doc a name

At least not a bad one John.. Wink [;)]

---Tom---

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Sunday, October 10, 2004 9:42 AM

E-mail has been sent, asked for 1-350 scale, couldn't get it out last night, so I sent it today. Hope it helps.

Always called them Doc or by their name
John
Helicopters don't fly, they beat hte air into submission

Reply

tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Sunday, October 10, 2004 6:59 PM

yeah, with the blue side they always called me by my name... with the green machine they mostly called me doc except some of the Sgt and up... if we knew each other and hung out together they called me Tom... but called me Doc on duty...

I appreciate y'alls help John and Carl... It is actually kind of exciting to think of a styrene version of an LPH coming out. I just found out Aurora did a 1/600 version some time back (prior to my modelling years.. even the early ones when I was a teen I am afraid) And if I remember it was mentioned that it was rather uncommon to rare to find one... maybe I can find some info on it..

The hard part is I am not having luck on finding plans for the Guam... at least yet. I am contacting this company in MD and see if they have any or could get them from the Nat'l Register or something... I am sure they will cost a decent amount but who knows? just for deck and superstructure plans might not be TOO much!

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Sunday, October 10, 2004 10:40 PM

Doc
I was surfing thru
www.navy.mil
on one of the heading's i found "frequently asked questions" and clicked on it and found a listing for ship plans. They do sell them, but thought you might want to check it out. Hope my directions will help you find the site. If not let me know and I'll try to be more specific.
John
Helicopters don't fly, they beat the air into submission

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Monday, October 11, 2004 6:04 AM

Thanks John!

That is definitely I was looking for! Gonne zip them off a letter tonight...

For anyone else looking for plans for a scratchbuild or something like I am doing, here is the link:

http://history.navy.mil/faqs/faq26-1.htm

they also have a list of commerical sources for plans there too...

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

Reply

grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Monday, October 11, 2004 6:03 PM

Doc
Glad the link helped. Hoped it would. Got an answer to my e-mail today, same respond you got, but it will show them people are interested. I incourage all others to e-mail them also, the more the merrier.
John
Helicopter's don't fly, they beat the air intp submission

Reply

tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Monday, October 11, 2004 8:47 PM

wow... this has been an eventful night... just found smeone who has the 1/600 model of the USS Guadalcanal (same class as the Guam, different radar) only prob is it is 150.00 but I am still thinking of buying it... I guess it will be my Christmas present from my wife (already told her that's what I want)

I am going to still press Trumpeter for a 1/400 or better build... hopefully the nameless who see this thread might ask for a model of an amphibious assault ship as well. Landing Platform, Helicopter to be exact... (LPH) ... I might buy the old skool Auroroa kit from the 60's just the same.. even though it is not accurate according to the forum I read... it still expresses the shape and size (i.e. massive) of the LPH they said...

again, thaks to Carl and John and whoever else is helping in this quest to get an entire class of ships recognized... the only amphibs I know of are the LHD class and they are kind of boring to me... untried except in Somalia and there was no competiion there... sure they look good and carry the LCAC's but that's it... no history... no war wounds...

1/700 = about 4 inches in the LPD class, about 5 inches in the LPH class... thats sad...

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Monday, October 11, 2004 9:09 PM

ok!!!! (teletype sound, circa Saturday Night Live "The Evening News") just got an email back from Jackson... if that IS his name...

Tom:

Well! That sounds a good idea you would send me the data.
Anyway we would consider to do it as large scale as possible, as you
know
we are doing very well in large scale even the ships.

Thank you very much for your attention at this!!

Best regards
Jackson Xiao

ok sounds like a buncha crap but lets see!! yall email him you are looking for the prints too.,.. (I will get them if they are public domain now, should be as it is stricken from the Naval Register) just to keep the pressure up hahah... I didnt say anything about scale so obviously you all's emails got to him too... if it is a "he" and not a generic mailbox name... we should go for a 1/24 model of the Guam haha... (thiking if my neighbors would mind me taking up their lawns...) of course I do live on the lake so if I sealed it I could register it as a boat here...

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

Reply

grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Monday, October 11, 2004 9:34 PM

will do, Doc
agree Jackson is a wierd name for someone from China.
Again I urge all others to e-mail Jackson using the link above
John
Helicopters don't fly, the beat the air into submission

Reply

tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 3:06 PM

Thanks again John... when I get the response back from the Navy and if I can find a microfilm reader (hopefully my library still has theirs) I can print out the plans and mail them... hopefully the Navy will sell them to me!

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

Reply

therriman

Member since
January 2003
From: Central MI

Posted by therriman on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 5:04 PM

This Jackson guy is the one who helped me get a replacement cowling for my Trumpeter 1/32 F4F-4. He was very helpful and got me taken care of. But he's only one guy in the whole company. I'm sure there's only so much he can do.

Tim H. "If your alone and you meet a Zero, run like hell. Your outnumbered" Capt Joe Foss, Guadalcanal 1942 Real Trucks have 18 wheels. Anything less is just a Toy! I am in shape. Hey, Round is a shape! Reality is a concept not yet proven.

Reply

Jeff Herne

Member since
January 2003

Posted by Jeff Herne on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 6:13 PM

Guys,

Don't get your hopes up...this is coming from someone who's given them alot of intel on WW2 ship subjects, plans, books photos, etc., some of which have been produced, most of which have not.

In the end, it'll all come down to money...how much money will an LPH make for them, instead of yet another carrier or a battleship? Probably not as much. I don't want to shatter anyone's hopes or efforts, but if I can't get a 1/350 Gearing or Sumner, or Atlanta CL, or even Graf Spee, I seriously doubt they'll consider doing an LPH.

By the way, Taubman's Plan Service carries a set of LPH drawings, LPH2-12, plan number 52X, for $8.00.

I hope you guys can get through to them...all I know is, they're not listening to those of us who gave them most of their latest subjects, the Essex Class CVs, the Liberty Ship, Nimitz, etc. Maybe you can get through to them.

Best,

Jeff Herne

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 7:17 PM

Thanks Jeff, it's worth a try... the only thing that might save this is there is one, possibly two styrene molds done already for the LPH... if they happen to be in posession of one or be inclined to get them it might work...

By the way... does anyone know who bought out Aurora? or did it just close? they have one of the old kits in question...

the only reason I am asking for 1/350 is to maybe get it in at over 1/700 scale... even 1/600 is a start...

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

Reply

grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 8:55 PM

Doc
Monogram bougth out Aurora, but the mold question is not so easy to answer. During shipment there was a train wreck and some molds where distroyed, some were lost over time and some were junked due to damage while in storage, and they have released a few kits from those molds. What remains Revell-Monogram won't disclose although from time to time something pops up.
Best bet is to watch at swap meets and vender tables at shows. Sometimes estate sales will bring stuff out.
Let's not give up yet, since some kits were made so there has to be some interset. The fact the we got some response from Trumpeter is better then most model companies give.
Remembered that Revell had a kit out years ago, might watch for that, may have also been re-released by Revell-Germany.
John
Helicopter don't fly, they beat the air into submission

Reply

tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 9:25 PM

I just remembered that when Jeff replied too John.. Revell at some part of the 70's had a model of the Guadalcanal... which with a little fitting for the different radars on the two could become the Guam for me...

Yeah and thought I don't totally trust Jackson (sneaky snake that he is haha) he might be our only way to get it moving... if not now then later with enough people asking about it... I still keep contact with some buddies from different amphibs... Saipan, Iwo Jima etc... and even though they aren't modellers I bet I can get them to email... especially if they are drunk when I call them hahaha

Again, thanks to all I appreciate the positive responses!!!

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

Reply

grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 9:29 PM

Have them give it a try, can't hurt, I'll work on my "snipe" son.
John

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 9:37 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by grandadjohn

Have them give it a try, can't hurt, I'll work on my "snipe" son.
John

::rolling eyes:: not a SNIPE!!! haha I havent heard that term for many a year... I remember in Corps school the warning not to go near "snipes castle" in Great Lakes... ends up we made friends with a few of thm at the bowling alley one night and the other "snipes" didnt like it when we came to get them to go back partying with us... something about we were supposed to be natural enemies or something haha...

oh well...

Thanks!!!!

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

Reply

grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 6:13 PM

Never heard that from my son, know he worked with Doc's when there was a medical emergency. He served on the Prize(DC3 on the fire department). Had a couple called on him following some asthma attacks caused by exposure during a hazmat spill. Said they treated him good, of course Army Doc's treated me good too after I was hurt.
John
Helicopters don't fly, they beat the air into submission

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 6:57 PM

yeah that was only in school... after we got out of our basic schools (HM, HT, EW etc... ) we all forgot about that... My dad was a HTC when he was in... so I come from Snipe blood...

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, October 17, 2004 3:47 PM

I too have "snipe blood"...my Dad was an EM1. Big Smile [:D]

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Sunday, October 17, 2004 4:31 PM

so we're both tainted I guess haha... I dont know.. my dad did 9 yrs in the Corps before crossing over to Navy so I'm not sure what blood I have Wink [;)]

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

Reply

grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Sunday, October 17, 2004 9:37 PM

Never been to sea, sometimes I wonder what I missed, talked with my son some about it. My dad was an Army cook(no joke) WW II, my ex's mother was a WAVE (WW II), me Army(only service that would give me a choice back then), my son's wife was a grape ape on the Teddy. Wonder what my grandkids will be(hope the world will be a safer place then.) Maybe Navy rotorheads? They say that blood is mainly saltwater.
The snipe said he would e-mail "Jackson".
John
Helicopter's don't fly, they beat the air into submission

Reply

tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Monday, October 18, 2004 3:33 PM

Thanks again John... you've been more than helpful.. and as far as the grandchildrens lineage and future in the military, that's a wide spread so don't be surprised when they go Air Force or something!

As far as being at sea... It was both miserable and wonderful at once... 12 to 24 hour work days, 6 days a week... 8 to 24 on Sun depending if you had watch or not. Bad food if you were unlucky and got assigned to the wrong ship. (Lost 40 lbs eating fruit and salad only, 3 times a day on the Austin) We bunked stacked 4 high both times I was deployed, if you got the top rack it could be a rough ride in heavy seas... and you could only hope youdidnt fall.. it was a long way down..

The flip side was visiting all the different ports.. meeting a lot of really great people all over the world. (I kept in touch with some for yrs after I came back stateside) At night you saw more stars than you could comprehend... you can actually see the depth of the star field out there too.. as in you can tell some stars are further away from you than others. Not just that they look smaller but they are 3 dimentionally farther away... If you lay on the deck and looked at them it could make you dizzy, almost felt like you were falling UP! You could see more satellites than you could shake a stick at!

---Tom---

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, October 18, 2004 9:11 PM

I agree, see my dad's been talken about me, sent an e-mail for you
the snipe
John

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 7:51 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by desertrat65

I agree, see my dad's been talken about me, sent an e-mail for you
the snipe
John

I appreciate the help John! thanks a lot!

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

Reply

grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 9:24 PM

Doc
Guess all services have their good and bad points. Food seems to be a universal though, best food I had was when a friend(he was in the Air Force) picked me up at Ft. Lewis when I was headed for Korea and took me to McCord AFB right next door. Got there at midnight and ate in his messhall(3 choices for dinner). Spent the night in his room(2 person), remember this was 1968. Techincally I was awol but I never left military property.
Also would have hated to have been the mess sgt in Germany the night after the Bn CO ate dinner(unannouced) in the mess hall we used. BADD!! meal. Within two months it was up for best mess in Europe.
Got the impression, correct me if I'm wrong, you spent some time playing with the Misguided Childern. Two hours sleep on a rocky hillside wrapped in a poncho, soaking wet with temps near freezing when we had to play infantry wasn't my idea of fun.
Long hours went with the job though when needed. Spent my share.
My son said the same about the stars at sea though, he had a spot he would go when he had free time at night and no flight ops. Said there was no way to really describe it.
"Air Force life, now that's the lfe for me, said Banicile Bill the sailor" the other service I told my son to join. Eleven year until the oldest is old enogh. Like I said, hope it's a safer world.
My son hasn't modeled much since he got out of the Navy, between work, school and the 3 kids, he doen't have much time, but he has expressed an interset in getting back into it, thinking about ships, he did cars mainly some planes and even a chopper or two.
John
Helicopets don't fly, they beat the air into submission

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 10:15 PM

Ironic John (Sr.) I was thinking about you and came back to post this and you had your reply.

My great uncle who I never met (he died in 1962) was a tail gunner on the B-26 in WWII and I found a site tonite describing the feelings of the marauder men as they learned their 'chariots' were being burned at the end of the ETO war...

http://www.billsb-26marauder.org/epilogue.htm

about food... yes I did my time in the desert.... sleeping the best I could... freeze dried MRE's (the chicken ala king was best in my book) waking up in the morning with a goat sniffing your nether regions... actually had a Marine almost court martialed over shooting a goat.. it quickly escalated to international incident scale... (seriously) the Turkish feel strongly about their goats evidently...

sometimes we didn't have time to throw up our hooches (rapid deployment my a$$) and just dug a depression in the sand and their we layed... sand fleas and all...

no mistake.. in retrospect I loved every single second of it... especially since I was in the unique position to sample several branches... while remaining in my own... I loved my time in the field.. and I love the USMC... they are definitely a 'band of brothers' ... they take care of their own even after discharge... (job lines, charity orgs etc..) and they always took care of doc...

the USAF was great, not because of the food, but because it was funny walking down the street and saluting an officer the "right way" (I had spent time with the corps already, my roomate and travelling partner was 101st airborne) and have them thank us because no one has saluted them like that before.. haha...

The army was great not only for the experience, but a different way of life, my classmates and I... including the whole Navy detachment learned a lot during that 1 1/2 yr school... mostly respect and friendship... including the corporal that told me (as an E-5) to do pushups for walking on the grass.. (my second day on post) (LOL!) his first seargent explained the situation to him and actually after that we kinda became friends...

This has really been cathartic John... talking with you and all the other vets and non-vets... thanks so much! I have the webmaster where I work working on a fiting tribute to the Guam... including either your shakespeare qoute from Henry V, or Alenam's qoute from trafalgar... I will post the result when I am done... this guy is great at what he does and it will be a befitting tribute for my office wall... whether or not trumpeter does (which I doubt) release any scale kit...

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 12:20 AM

Doc,

Your mention of the destruction of the Marauders reminded me of a great movie, made in 1946, if I remember right, called The Best Years of Our Lives. In my opinion the best movie about returning home from war ever made. I don't want to spoil it for you if you haven't seen it (and believe me, you should see it). It focuses on three returning veterans, a sailor who has lost both hands, a bank manager who became an infantry sergeant, and a guy who was a loser in civillian life who became a B-17 bombardier. If you see the movie you'll see why I'm bringing it up.

Al

PS The Chicken ala King??? I wouldn't feed that to a dog I hated. But then people thought I was crazy cause I liked the dehydrated beef patty. My fave though was the franks. Actually, most of the guys in my unit used to hump out an extra ten pounds or so of "pogey bait" like cans of chili, ramen noodles, snack pack pudding (when it still came in cans). Then there were the guys who somehow derived all their nutrition from cigarettes and coffee.

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 6:06 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by alenam

PS The Chicken ala King??? I wouldn't feed that to a dog I hated. But then people thought I was crazy cause I liked the dehydrated beef patty. My fave though was the franks. Actually, most of the guys in my unit used to hump out an extra ten pounds or so of "pogey bait" like cans of chili, ramen noodles, snack pack pudding (when it still came in cans). Then there were the guys who somehow derived all their nutrition from cigarettes and coffee.

LOL! that reminds me of another Marine story... we were up in the Black Sea doing amphib ops near Izmir and we got a call about an incoming casualty... long story short the guy was hungry, decided he couldn't wait to rehydrate and warm the beef patty so he ate it like a candy bar... couple this with strenuous excercise on an op and not drinking enough water... you get the pic... that thing was like a sponge... his belly was like a basketball by the time we got him on a chopper back to ship...
I've included a reenactment here...
Burger [BG]

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 9:09 PM

God, I bet his stomach hurt. Guess he never did that again.
Missed MRE's, they came after I left, we made due with C-rat's, some weren't to bad especially if we had some beer to wash them down with.
Read your story on the Marauder's, sad but true no thougth of the future, Navy did the same with the PT boats at the end of the war, beached them, then burned them. Still I got to see the nose of "Flak Bait" at the National Air and Space. Visited there with my son when he was stationed at Norfolk. It had always been on our list of things to do.
Seen the movie Al recommended, if you haven't seen it try to sometime.
Would like to see your tribute when it's done.
I have also liked this post.
Still hope you get your model and will do what I can to help.
John
Helicopters don't fly, they beat the air into submission

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 9:15 PM

Doc,

You're Dad was a Marine and then became a "snipe", so you became a sailor hanging out with Marines.

My Grandfather was a Marine (WWI, yes One not Two) and Dad was a sailor. So I end up being a Marine with my last duty station being a Navy Command.

See it all works out in the end. Big Smile [:D]

Semper Gumby! (Always Flexible)

Carl

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Thursday, October 21, 2004 6:30 PM

Well with so many Marines in the family I originally wanted to join the MArines, but was worried about my flat feet getting in the way. Talking with my dad he told me about hospital corpsmen and how THEY also go with the Marines... beng I liked science and had already took 2 yrs of anatomy and physiolgy in HS I thought this might be the way to go... so I did it! Didn't go straight FMF though, I ended up getting assigned to a rapid deplyment team instead that was the best of both worlds.

Oh and as far as we knew, the guy who ate the dehydrated beef patty got a medical discharge from the Corps... go figure, if I would have only known it was that easy! (not easy, he lost some of his stomach in the process)

I'll have to see if I can locate that movie John... I am not sure if I have seen it or not, sounds familiar but I don't remember any details.. but definitely going to give it a try!

LAter yall! gotta go feed the dogs and myself...

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Friday, October 22, 2004 8:56 PM

What they say is true "once a Marine, always a Marine, I've had several friends who were Marine's, all good people. Marine History in WWI is little known, which is a shame, again another high point in their long history. And they do take care of their own.
Doc, no wonder those KGB cruise ship guy's where eyeing you, almost knocking on their side door.
All for now, it's been a long week and it's not over for me yet, have to be up early for work tomorrow.
John
Helicopters don't fly, they beat the air into submission

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Saturday, October 23, 2004 6:21 PM

yeah, in Palma Mallorca Spain was usually 3 to 4 Soviet cruise ships in port everytime we go there.... somehow one time we were pierside in between two of them... lot's of folks with binoculars... it was obvious on the smaller cruise ship in front of us, I dont think we saw one woman topside the two days it was there...

the wierdest thing to happen was when a roll on/roll off cargo ship(not sure who it was registered to but everyone was saying it was soviet) ignored warnings and horn signals and came right in between us and the oiler we were underway refueling with... had to do an emergency breakaway and a bunch of people got pretty hurt either by flying hoses or JP-5 spraying all over on them...

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Saturday, October 23, 2004 9:12 PM

Heard they played rough at sea, have to ask my son about any re-in's he had, but the Soviets weren't as active then. Only problems he ever talked about were all the small boats that liked to cut in front of them when they were leaving port. the Capt. had to use the PA and told them to move since it was easier for them then it was for him.
We had a North Korean Mig-17 buzz our airfield once(we were the northern most airfield in Korea). He didn't stay long, headed north before our fighters could respond.
Some unlucky ADA Bn CO lost his job for not shooting it down.
John
Helicopters don't fly, they beat the air into submission

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Sunday, October 24, 2004 8:50 PM

yeah it was kinda scary sometimeswhen we were out.. one time we had a AH-1W hovering a few feet above the deck of a soviet "fishing trawler" that had more antenna on it than the entire state of Rhode Island..pointing that 20mm at anything that dared move across the deck... they wouldn't back off and were getting within our perimeter...... another time it was the F-14's up there "playing" with the Migs... cut to a scene fromTop Gun.. but the agressors in this shot were wearing the REAL red stars... you could tell when it was getting hot, a plane would hit afterburners and roll out hard and down... we kept waiting for something to go wrong...

once they (USSR) lifted their leg and marked us, we went through the rest of the op un-harrassed... (like a dog pee'ing on a tree almost... had to harrass us then they let us be) thing was we were just the amphib fleet... but 100nm or so behind us was a carrier battlegroup... AEGIS cruisers and destroyers well within range of anything we were up against...

One of the most awesome sights I ever saw was the Iowa or Missouri (depends on who you asked) out with us.. way out on the horizon... but it was BIG... and looked mean.. I think Reagan was right... the sight of that ship off your coast was a big deterrent.. especially when it started hurling Volkswagen sized shells with a 3 meter accuracy at you! second most awesome was a Bear... flying over taking pics I assume... an awesome looking plane...

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Thursday, October 28, 2004 10:00 PM

Remember seeing a photo of a Bear taken by us, someone was holding something up in one of the waist blisters, when blown up it showed one of the crew waving a Pepsi bottle. Wondered for years why no one did it in 1/72nd scale, finally Trumpeter did. Good looking model, goes good with BUFF's and BONE's.
Ships are an impressive sight to see, my son took me along the piers at Norfolk and Little Creek and we tried to get into San Deigo but security was tight. Actually got on the Prise in Newport News(in the yard then). Wish I could have seen a battleship, they had to be impressive also. Reagon was right about them, still think we made a mistake by retiring them. Thought they should have kept at least two in commission.
My son hasn't heard anything from "Jackson", but we will keep trying.
John
Helicopters don't fly, they beat the air into submission
P.S. Anyone else reading this thread, please e-mail Trumpeter for us and ask for a 1/350 USS Guam, Thanks

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, October 29, 2004 1:16 AM

Doc,

Don't think it could have been the Missouri you saw. I seem to remember that the only two battleships we had at the time were the Iowa and the New Jersey (though someone may correct me on this). I remember that New Jersey was at least temporarily attached to 6 Fleet around the 82-83 period, in support of the peacekeeping mission in Lebanon (and some folk in the Shuf Mtns were the recipients of some of those VWs).

Al

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grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Saturday, October 30, 2004 10:37 PM

Al
Thought they re-commissioned all 4 of the Iowa class during that time period, but I don't remember for sure. Still would have been a sight to see.
John
helicopters don't fly they beat the air into submission

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Sunday, October 31, 2004 8:31 PM

I'm trying to remember.. it seems like it has been a millenium since I was in...

I'll have to check up on it.. for some reason I remember at one point there was a PLAN to activate all 4... can't remember if it ever happened though.... I'll ask my dad he'll know for sure (was still serving as an HT then...) He had orders to the New Jersey immediately after the Beirut bombing but he and the group deploying to her were met in the airport by a liason telling them to stand down... (the New Jersey was sailing short on HT and MM crew and had to activate some shoreside sailors)

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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Daprophet

Member since
July 2003
From: Charlotte

Posted by Daprophet on Thursday, November 4, 2004 10:15 AM

The picure of the Caron on here really bothered me much more than I would have thought. I served on the USS Obrien DD-975 from 90-94. I have found out the Obrien was decomissioned in Sept of this year. I have searched the web for more info but cant find anything. Anyone know where I may be able to find something about her fate?

David

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grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Thursday, November 4, 2004 5:24 PM

David
Might try
www.navy.mil
but chances are she is in the yard either being stripped of usable gear or getting ready to be put into the reserve fleet or sale to a friendly power. Other then that web searching is the only other thing I can think of.
John
helicopters don't fly, they beat the air into submission

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Thursday, November 4, 2004 6:53 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by Daprophet

The picure of the Caron on here really bothered me much more than I would have thought. I served on the USS Obrien DD-975 from 90-94. I have found out the Obrien was decomissioned in Sept of this year. I have searched the web for more info but cant find anything. Anyone know where I may be able to find something about her fate?

yeah that's how I felt when I saw the Guam... like a hollow feeling.. I found a site of one of the guys on the escort cruiser that stood by while the sub sank her, that has pics of the entire sinking of the Guam... it's almost like watching someone die...

Here's a link to some info on the Obrien, apparently she hasn't been sunk yet...

http://navysite.de/dd/dd975.htm

here's another:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2004/05/mil-040503-nns01a.htm

evidently she just made it back in May to the states, probably gonna sit in the yards for awhile while they dismantle of all usable parts... then???

go on google and do a search with: uss obrien 975 thats what I used and came up wit a lot of sites on her...

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Thursday, November 4, 2004 7:03 PM

Not the most detailed pics... but a few of her going down.. (Guam)

sorry to all you on dialup.... they had the whole series including some shots by a missile as it came close then penetrated near the superstructure, some shots from a helicopter etc... almost like the Romans in the colliseum...

Actually it gives me an idea for a diorama... with the 1/700 resin LPH from JAG. one of her sinking modelled from these pics... with the qoute I got from Alenam I believe about the sinking of Nelsons ship...

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Thursday, November 4, 2004 9:38 PM

Doc
Reminds me of the picture's I saw in an avaition magizine in the mid-70's of a Huey.
First one showed a Huey attached to platform engine running, blade's turning, missle approaching the engine from the rear(shoulder fired SAM), second picture missle exploding, thrid picture engine gone not much left of the blades and tail boom falling away. Sad to watch and scary too, was still flying then and knew what it would have done to the crew.
I had watched a demo firing of the old Redeye system in Germany in 1970, six shots, six hits. I don't like SAM's, no chance in a helo to escape from them.
Every find out about the Iowa class?
If you do a diorama post the picture's, would like to see.
John
Helicopters don't fly, they beat the air into submission

PS Have the FS numbers for lime green and flamingo pink, sounds like a good camo job for my next Huey build(laugh the enemy into submission)

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Friday, November 5, 2004 6:19 AM

I think I saw the same video John... it was kinda scary... no I haven't talked to my dad yet (re: BB's)... been kinda busy lately and going to bed early. This daylight savings thing is hard to get used to haha...

I'll let yall know if I do the diorama thing.. it sounds like I might enjoy the build...

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

Reply

grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Friday, November 5, 2004 3:25 PM

Understand about being busy, time change can be a pain to. We don't change here, but every six months have to recalulate the changes. We do business in all 50 states and D.C. My parents always have trouble keeping it straight and knowing the difference half the year between me and my sister. We both live in the mountain zone.
John
helicopters don't fly, the beat the air into submission

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Friday, November 5, 2004 8:17 PM

yeah thats right! I forgot yall dont do DST... I used to think that was cool.. but I guess it would be hard to coordinate your day around other places if you worked in the business world... almost like an international business.. but instead you would have clocks on the wall with the letters "Chicago" and "Los Angeles" instead of Moscow and London haha

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Sunday, November 7, 2004 11:18 AM

It can be a pain, especially when we can only call-back during specific hours, our work comes to us via internet and phone. Job was M-F 8-5. now is 24/7/365, my part of banking has really changed. We do have the clocks on the wall read eastern, central, etc.
John
helicopters don't fly, they beat the air into submisssion

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Sunday, November 7, 2004 9:25 PM

haha john, no disrespect... but I imagining that as a Saturday Night Live sketch.... Chevy Chase sitting there having to refer to the clocks as he spouts the evening news... (that dates me... the Chevy Chase thing...)

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Sunday, November 7, 2004 9:31 PM

P.S. it was funny today, had a boot sailor sitting next to me at thelocal seafood restaraunt telling his parents ALL about the Navy.. I remember the same convo I had with my parents back in 84... Talking about so and so that ended up going to captains MASS (mast) article 80 something for the army guys, I forget, 82 I think...

He was so young, dumb and full of c%m it was funny... But it was a trip to the past for me.,.. thinking about when I was that young.....

Especially when I had the chance to congradulate him on graduation and told him I was a Corpsman for 12 yrs... his parents asked him what a corspman was and he sat there for a sec and then answered "I think he was Army mom"

Just wait till his skinny white b^tt gets on ship... he'll know "Doc" intimately... Evil [}:)]

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Sunday, November 7, 2004 9:57 PM

Yea, i remember Chevy Chase too, that was back in the days when SNL was at it's best.
Pity that poor boot when he get's to his ship, he will get a rude awakening. Me has a poor Army dogface knew better than call a Navy Corpman a medic.
Ever notice how young they look now when use see a new service person, were we every that young? Think we were a little wiser though.
John
helicopters don't fly, they beat the air into submission

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 7, 2004 10:24 PM

Maybe he'll be lucky enough to go through "Wog Day" or "Blue Nose". Big Smile [:D]

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Tuesday, November 9, 2004 9:19 PM

haha well he was heading for the Carl Vinson.. it was entertaining to hear the BS he was feeding his family... maybe I was lucky having a chief as a father... I couldnt put anything past him...

of course he put one past me... I owned a 69 Chevelle SS396 in High School... the envy of many a person... my dad talked me into selling it, as "as soon as you are out of your medic school you will be on a ship and you dont want it sitting in a parking lot for 6 months rusting.."

5 yrs later I actually SAW a ship...

which brings to mind another story for later... never sell anything to a biker who's nick name is "Satan"

My dad had to deal with that one himself... sold the car to the guy, next thing he is threatening my life... (literally) luckily my dad was 9 yrs Marine Corps including Viet Nam and his 5'6" (SFC) frame towered over that 6'3" private from Viet Nam that had issues with my car...

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Sunday, November 14, 2004 11:23 AM

Doc
His BS will stop the first time an "old" chief gets hold of him. I have hear the same thing from other sevice people(all branch's), think they know it all after basic. They find out different when they get onto the real world.
Knew better myself when I went in and thought my son to. He grew up that summer he went to boot. I had to bring him home on emergency leave after a week of boot, due some surgery I had to have. Spent his first three months in the Navy assigned to the Navy and Marine Corps Reserve center here in Phoenix and the chief there got him ready.
He bought his first car at Norfolk, but drove it home before his Med cruise.
Glad to hear that you got the plans for your ship, hope Trumpeter will use them to make your kit, but save a set for yourself just in case.
Also glad to hear your employer did something for Vet's Day, first year my company did to.
John
helicopters don't fly, they beat the air into submission

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Sunday, November 14, 2004 6:53 PM

yeah it all comes in time... my dad warned me that about Marines... he said when you go on liberty and there's a LCpl in your face wanting to kick your $#%, don't worry... it's Sgt all quiet in the corner... that's the one to worry about...

I'll keep ya posted on what I find about the Trumpeter thing... I haven't sent em off yet but will soon... in the meantime I plan to build the 1/700 as it actually isn't too small for the dio I talked about of her sinking...

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Monday, November 15, 2004 7:59 PM

Good luck, hope Trumpeter does it for you. Like to see your dio when it's done to.
John
helicopters don't fly, they beat the air into submission

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scottrc

Member since
December 2003
From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W

Posted by scottrc on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 12:41 PM

NO!!!!! This was the only can I served aboard. I didn't think they'd kill her off so fast. She was a clean and fast ship. Sunk for Canadian target practice.

http://www.news.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=18894
http://www.news.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=18892
Scott

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grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 6:45 PM

There has to be a better way.
John
heicopters don't fly, they beat the air into submission

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therriman

Member since
January 2003
From: Central MI

Posted by therriman on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 8:38 PM

All our beloved "Spru-cans" are being sunk as fodder. Disapprove [V]

Tim H. "If your alone and you meet a Zero, run like hell. Your outnumbered" Capt Joe Foss, Guadalcanal 1942 Real Trucks have 18 wheels. Anything less is just a Toy! I am in shape. Hey, Round is a shape! Reality is a concept not yet proven.

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 8:55 PM

I never was on a destroyer, except touring a WWII escort class... but I feel for ya.. like we said in previous posts an entire genreation of history is being sunk as we speak...

the good thing for yall is the spruance class is molded...

the odd thing is I noticed it in 1/700... it must be 2" long... I would hate to have to try that build... it's in 1/350 as well...

we're getting old... I imagine after WWII there were quite a few feeling as we do....

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Thursday, November 25, 2004 7:39 AM

They did it again. Woke up this morning and switched on the news. Watched them sink another ship(didn't catch the name). Said it was a joint AF/Navy exercise using a B-52 and I believe a JDAM to sink it somewhere off Hawaii. Sad to see another one go.
John
Helicopters don't fly, they beat the air into submission

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Friday, November 26, 2004 8:26 AM

There was talk of one of the remaining LPH's going down soon... but they wouldn't tow it all the way over there... I think it was the New Orleans....

I'll have to see if I can find out which ship it was... gonna make me a "wall" for these ships... sunk by our own hands...

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Friday, November 26, 2004 3:47 PM

Didn't look like a carrier-type ship superstructure was mid-line on ship, but other then that I don't know
John
helicopters don't fly, they beat the air into submission

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mkeatingss

Member since
November 2004
From: Chandler,AZ

Posted by mkeatingss on Saturday, November 27, 2004 9:01 AM

I apologize for comming in so late, to your discussion. But, I've got some info, for you.
There are plans for USS Gaum (LPH-9) at this web site: <<http://www.floatingdrydock.com/>>
Goto the Warships section, click on the "G" series and page down. There's a set of Guam drawings, 1:192 scale, for $30 (circa Sept 85). It might be what you're looking for. The part # is G-LPH9. If you have questions, call Tom. He listes his phone number and is a great guy to work with.
As far as this trip down memory lane, I know what you're talking about. I served on ten ships, during my career. The last one was commissioned in the early 70s. She retired from the Navy the day before I retired, '97. She, and one other, are up in Washington state, awaiting disposal. The sail of another is a Submarine memorial in Brazil. All the others have long since become razorblades.
A truely sad ending for some truely great ladies.
Mike

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grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Saturday, November 27, 2004 10:07 AM

Went to
www.navy.mil
this morning and found out the ship sunk was the USS Schenectady. I don't know why they hace to keep doing this Gen, Mitchell provided you could sink a ship with a bomb back in the 20's and he used a dumb one.
Welcome to the forum Mike
John
helicopters don't fly, they beat the air into submission

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Saturday, November 27, 2004 10:30 AM

thanks for the info Mike! 1985 is fine, I was on her in 89 on so it would probably look just like her...

John, I think it boils down to it's cheaper to sink them than keep the forever... if n one has the ready cash, or no salvage yard jumps for it... it's a lot easier I think... of course occasionally I would see a need to test weapon effectiveness etc.. sometimes I get the suspicion some congressman or such is at that periscope clapping his hands together like a little kid when the FT launches that missle...

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

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grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Sunday, November 28, 2004 8:32 PM

Tom
Sorry to see that you were sick over the weekend, glad to hear you are better.
I agree that weapons do need to be tested. The ship's are being sunk to make artifical reef's for the fish. They need to be inspected to make sure all pollution sources have been removed from the ship, so I don't know about it being cheaper. Know the same fate is planned for the USS Oriskany, if it hasn't been done already. Story was in our paper here in Phoenix, they were going to give former crewmembers a chance to visit her before they sunk her. The ship was the last one a former naval pilot and current US Senator from our state served on before he was shot down over North Vietnam.
Navy also deep six'ed some A-6 airframes off of the Florida coast for the same reason(fish reef's.) This was after the decided to retire them. My son's Med cruise in 96 was the last for the Intruders. Saw them down at D-M AFB in Tuscon in the boneyard a few months later.
If you ever get over that way visit Pima Air and Space Museum.
John
helicopters don't fly, they beat the air into submission

Reply

tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Sunday, November 28, 2004 8:50 PM

thanks John! yeah I've looked into the Pima museum... definitely gonna have to check it out! we have the lone star flight musuem down here that is growing.. the main thing with it is that about 90% or more of the aircraft are operational and participate in fly overs and air shows through the year!

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

Reply

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 9, 2005 2:27 PM

Ran across this thread and let me asure you, most of the folks who serve out on the open water form the same attachments to their ships as you did. I served aboard the Knox class frigate USS Fanning (FF-1076) and the New Orleans (LPH-11) . New Orleans is being held in reserve for eventual disposition as a museum. I'd heard the city of New Orleans was interested. As for the Fanning, when the Navy dumped the Knoxes in 93 she was "leased" to Turkey, and eventualy sold outright to them on 2000. In 2001 they decommissioned her and sent her off to be cut up for scrap. It is though I was informed of the death of a friend I hadn;t seen in many years. There are still nights (I got off the ship in 1976) when I dream of walking her decks, feeling the roll of the hull in the flat calm of the Indian Ocean, the midnight moon reflecting off the still waters. She was much more than steel and aluminum to me, she was a home, a sheltering presence, and the backdrop against which I grew up. I read a comment from a USS Ramsey (FFG-2) crewmember on the occasion of her sinking as a target during RIMPAC exercises, "it was like watching someone go out and shoot your old dog". We lost so much when the Navy downsized after WWII, The Enterprise, Saratoga, all the old dreadnaught battleships that survived Pearl Harbor. More recently they let go to the torch the Henry B. Wilson and the Harold Holt that pulled the steamer Mayaguez back from Cambodia. While I fully appreciate that we can't preserve everything it seems to me that we are all too willing to shread significant momentos of our past. When nothing is left of that past it is all too easy to forget......and perhaps repeat. One of the saddest photos I can remember is the last page of the Squadron book on Essex aircraft carriers. It shows the USS Bunker Hill, the last unconverted Essex, being towed out of San Diego on the way to the scrappers, past the Rosecrans National Cemetery. That was in 1973. Wish we'd had the foresight to save her. What a monument to the airmen and sailors of WWII she would have made. Rest well old friends, you are not forgotten.

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Edit

grapeape

Member since
February 2003

Posted by grapeape on Sunday, January 9, 2005 10:39 PM

Hey! New to this forum thing. Was checking this thread out and talk about old memories flowing. Yes, for whatever reasons, MY ol' girl "Connie" CV-64 will always be a big part of me. She was decommished 2004. I was unable to attend the ceremony and I'm still and wil be kicking myself in the butt for years to come for not seeing her and saying good-bye for the last time. Sob,Sob Anyway, I was a grapeape and served below-decks(and I mean just about everywhere below-decks, even on that BIG boat). Even did some flight deck duty. There were lots of so-called bad times. But as the years go by, they are turning more into good if not great times. Last I heard was that they might sink her for artifical reef or something like that. That news hit me hard.
As a kid, I said I would be on a aircraft carrier someday(sailor or civilian). And I've always wanted a totally detailed, museum quality model of one. My skills will never reach that level. But am enjoying the hobby anyway. The ultimate model is one that will handle a full or almost full airwing of 1/72 aircraft. This kind of model is one where a whole room must be added to the house just for it. I have a dream!! someday... someday... Anyway, sorry for the rambing on. This thread just struck a cord with me. Thanks for the memories grapeape

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 12:12 PM

tears are welling in my eyes everytime i hear or see apiece of history get destroyed or scrapped just a month ago i saw wwII T-2 tanker get hauled out to sea for the last time
so i pulled over my bigrig over along the river got out and paid silent omage as it passed on its way to forever i wish i had a camera that day but it will live in my memory
forever . remember those who don't save and remember history today , are doomed to repeat it tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Edit

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 1:52 PM

I have the same feelings when I see pics of the USS Long Beach. What's lef t of her is up in Washington with the rest of the nuke cruisers waiting for final disposition. It really hurts when you spend some of the best years of your life and have to see what others do to it.

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grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Monday, March 14, 2005 8:22 PM

Read in the paper that the US Navy plans to tow the USS America(CV-66) out of the Philly Yard and sink her somewhere east of Norfolk during a weapons test in late April or early May.
Since they have never sunk a super carrier, they want to see what it takes to do so and how the ship will sink.
This is just a note for those interested

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tho9900

Member since
July 2004
From: SETX. USA

Posted by tho9900 on Sunday, May 14, 2006 11:25 AM

Wow didn't realize there was still activity here... I totally dropped the ball on getting the Guam plans to trumpeter but someones question in the odds and ends reminded me of it. I came back to get the email address of the guy I was talking to and had to read through the whole thing again.

Glad to see some of the new crowd come aboard!

---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!

Reply

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 8:03 AM

I just heard they are going to sink the Oriskany as an artificial reef this week. I saw this post a couple of days ago and meant to post that reminded me. Then I saw where grape ape mentioned the same fate for the Connie IMHO that Sucks The Connie deserves better but I guess it's the way of the world. I was with VF-154 on board the Connie from 87' til she went into SLEP. She was in better shape going into SLEP than her replacement was coming out. Had many good times because of her and I still miss her She's a grand lady.

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Hippy-Ed

Member since
December 2004
From: Stockton,Ca

Posted by Hippy-Ed on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 1:39 PM

I remember as a kid back in 70 walking the Flt Deck of the USS Hancock CVA-19 during open house at NAS Alameda back when my uncle Ernie served aboard as a crewman. I was in awe of the aircraft aboard & in Aug or Sept of 1977 while in Long Beach visiting my great uncle Bob who worked on an oil rig supply boat across from the Hanna when they were crapping her. Man, that broke my heart Boohoo [BH]

somewhere I have a pic of it.

If you lose your sense of humor, you've lost everything

Reply

grandadjohn

Member since
February 2003
From: phoenix

Posted by grandadjohn on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 2:24 PM

While the USS Oriskay met her fate this morning about 200 miles south of Penscloa Beach in 200 feet of water to make an artifical reef. Former crew members watched from chartered boats. 500 Pounds of explosives were used to sink her

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Duke Maddog

Member since
June 2003
From: Rowland Heights, California

Posted by Duke Maddog on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 4:20 PM

*Bows Head and offers a moment of silence in salute.*

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m1garand

Member since
November 2005
From: Somewhere over the rainbow

Posted by m1garand on Thursday, May 18, 2006 8:20 AM

I used to live in Jacksonville Florida and frequently saw corsairs and crusaders being chopped up and dumped into the water. about 10 years ago, I dove coast of NJ and there were M60 tanks and subway cars under water. It was sad to see how these mighty machines end up like that, but I can't imagine what was going through the minds of people who served on those big ships when they were sinking into the water.

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