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C.A. - Superglue - A Discovery

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  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
C.A. - Superglue - A Discovery
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Thursday, May 19, 2022 9:00 AM

Hi Ya'll;

      Last night in a discussion with my son, we talked about The Forums and how many of you have downplayed C.A. as a cement for clear parts. Why? Well, here's the answer and it will surprise you. First off, and most importantly, How and in what pattern do you apply the glue and what type do you use?

      Here's where it gets a wee bit technical. Most everybody knows of Bob Smith industries and their product, which can be found behind Hobby Shop Labels all over the country  Maybe even the world! The base type being their Thin. Then, there's Extra Thin and Extra Thick. Nowadays, in the hobby shops you will also find carded products that are the same, or the Best for Clear which is the Gel types put out by Everybody and their Grandma!

     Okay, we've made that point. Now, you will say, "Is he Crazy? You Cannot use Super Glue on clear parts." Oh, Yes you can!! How many times do all modelers have to be told" Don't use to much glue on a part". I guess that's something, even with the long time builders that didn't sink in with THIS product! Think about it. Do you use a glue applicator like the ones sold by Micro-Mark, Joe Blow, or Whoever? Do you make your own? Makes no difference even if you use the predominent Toothpick that's either Plastic or Wood.

      Do you apply a nice almost invisible bead of the stuff? WRONG!!! Do you put the parts together and let capillary action spread the glue? WRONG!!! Remember, we are talking about CLEAR parts here! First off the liquid C.A. is THE WRONG TYPE to use. I started using the stuff Way back when the only place you could even obtain C.A. was at hardware outlets. Then everyone jumped on the Bandwagon after the T.V. ad with the guy hanging from a fork on a forklift with his hardhat!

      No one does that. Why would we want to glue a human to anything? The Hat! That was the sales gimmick! Now, let's get back to the roots of the missive, Clear Parts, and Super Glue. Here's what I learned in 65 years in the Hobby, Never bet on a sure thing, You will fall off the bridge! Gel Superglue, kinda sad we can't get it in larger containers, but then again what is it's shelf life? I haven't had anyone be able to tell me that. All I get is "Well, If it been opened, I Dunno" See. It's still a mystery.

      Okay, Mystery no more. Those little tubes if closed securely, will last about a month! Here's the way for doing clear parts, Here's the secret. (.......) see those little dots in the parenthesis? That's your clue. Take a canopy, put a gel dot that size on the center front of your one piece canopy and if the plane is a Razorback style put a dot at each corner at the lower rear. If it's a "Bubble" canopy one dot on both sides and on both ends if one piece. DO NOT use accelerator at any point in this step! That stuff makes the C.A. either very angry and HOT or a little known thing, It may neutralize the curing time to way too long. Those three or four dots will insure a good bond. Hold the part in place for about a minute." Bob's Yer Uncle" as the Brits or Aussies say!

      Okay here's my secret exposed for everybody out there. I do not use ANY offbrand C.A. I also don't overapply it. Pressure generates heat. Heat triggers the curing of the super glue between two surfaces. The teensy bit I use does Not fog the clear. Why? Simple, Using the three little beads I have left a gap for the Glue to vent, gently close to it's location. I then come back with Aleens Sticky Glue or Elmers carpenters glue to fill any gaps. Your wee dots should NOT be visible past the Canopy framing anywhere!

      See,? I told you it was easy. Remember most of all, No Off Brands and the Wee Teensy dots! That's your secret! It is Not necessary to use a bead lengthwise anywhere near a clear part anyway. Happy Clearpartin!! You don't even need to use it in Capillary action for anything. One dot, each side of your surface or one in the middle and let set. Return with the thicker liquid STYRENE glue in Capillary action to further bond the pieces.  VERY IMPORTANT--Remember C.A. is a SURFACE adhesive. It does Not affect the material you are building with unless it is a porous Material!         Model On!

        

     

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Towson MD
Posted by gregbale on Thursday, May 19, 2022 11:18 AM

To be honest -- though it's not my adhesive of first choice for clear parts -- I've never had much difficulty using CA to attach canopy parts.

With small amounts of the glue, and reasonably good air circulation, I've rarely had any problems. The few times I've gotten a little 'fogging,' a swipe with a micro-brush and denatured alcohol has wiped it cleanly away.

Just my 2 cents

Greg

George Lewis:

"Every time you correct me on my grammar I love you a little fewer."
 
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Thursday, May 19, 2022 12:44 PM

I finally learned my lessons with CA type glue,the less the better,when too much goes on,it never sets up,like TB says,just small dots.

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Thursday, May 19, 2022 3:16 PM

Tanker-Builder

...many of you have downplayed C.A. as a cement for clear parts. Why? Well, here's the answer and it will surprise you...

You appear to have omitted discussing the reason people choose not to use CA glue for gluing clear parts-that gasses emitted as the glue cures will etch the plastic, creating the fogging effect. Especially if used in a case in which the gasses can't dissipate rapidly enough, such as the closed cockpit or interior of an airplane model.

I'm not sure that is related to the brand or quality, it's just a matter of chemistry.

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    April 2020
Posted by Eaglecash867 on Thursday, May 19, 2022 5:00 PM

No downplaying here.  CA has its uses, and attaching clear parts with it isn't one of them for me.  Like Baron says, its about chemistry, and for many of us it isn't worth the risk.  A tiny bit of epoxy, and the whole job is done in one step, with zero risk of fogging anything no matter what.

"You can have my illegal fireworks when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers...which are...over there somewhere."

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Friday, May 20, 2022 8:15 AM

 Hi Baron-If You Re-read:

 I did mention that many of the C.A. glues are hot. That's why I mentioned the Gel. Three little dots at the Canopy frames (On the edge) WILL do the job without fogging! I have done this for quite some time now. I have Not tried Bondic, But I am thinking about it too! Really, any glue is a nominee for Clear parts. It's just how you use them. Note: There are of course different brands and many are not well known for quality.That's why I said use a name brand!

           Before the dots, I did mention the amount you use. The more glue the more chance of fogging. It stands to reason- If you use to much of any glue on any part you are going to get damage. I used gel on my Monogram trainer way back when Gel first was available. It didn't fog and the Four little dots did their job with no damage. I am not saying Use it for sure, but you MAY if you are very careful with it. If I had a couple of hundred hours building and detailing an aircraft I certainly wouldn't want to ruin it, It took practice!

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Monday, May 23, 2022 9:30 AM

Tanker-Builder

 Hi Baron-If You Re-read:

 I did mention that many of the C.A. glues are hot. That's why I mentioned the Gel. Three little dots at the Canopy frames (On the edge) WILL do the job without fogging! I have done this for quite some time now. I have Not tried Bondic, But I am thinking about it too! Really, any glue is a nominee for Clear parts. It's just how you use them. Note: There are of course different brands and many are not well known for quality.That's why I said use a name brand!

           Before the dots, I did mention the amount you use. The more glue the more chance of fogging. It stands to reason- If you use to much of any glue on any part you are going to get damage. I used gel on my Monogram trainer way back when Gel first was available. It didn't fog and the Four little dots did their job with no damage. I am not saying Use it for sure, but you MAY if you are very careful with it. If I had a couple of hundred hours building and detailing an aircraft I certainly wouldn't want to ruin it, It took practice! 

That's as may be, but I doubt you've convinced anyone who doesn't use CA glue to glue clear parts, to change his mind.

Why the push to get people to use CA glue? Have you recently purchased stock in Bob Smith Industries or something?

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Monday, May 23, 2022 10:37 AM

Hi Baron;

       No, I haven't purchased stock. I was making it known that in a tight it can be used. I go to hobby shops and such, and every time I turn around another Brand is not being carried. The C.A. is always there though! Testors liquid has disappeared from around here and the closest I can by Tamiya is 45 miles in either direction. One way! The Local H.L.has Testors in the tube, but no more liquid.They used to carry Tamiya liquid. No more of that!  Now it's the Mr. Hobby Brand Liquid. My last plane needed it's canopy so the office wouldn't get dusty, C.A.Gel to the rescue, Again!

  • Member since
    April 2020
Posted by Eaglecash867 on Monday, May 23, 2022 11:22 AM

Epoxy is available everywhere, and does a better job with zero risk of fogging...just sayin.

"You can have my illegal fireworks when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers...which are...over there somewhere."

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Tuesday, May 24, 2022 8:53 AM

Eaglecash867:

         I Would and Could use Epoxy except for one thing. I would have to use the stuff outside as there to many allergies to deal with . Mine and the Two ladies. I can't even be around curing Fibreglas Resin anymore!( Never used to Bother me) Not so Now, for sure!

  • Member since
    April 2020
Posted by Eaglecash867 on Wednesday, May 25, 2022 2:56 PM

Tanker-Builder

Eaglecash867:

         I Would and Could use Epoxy except for one thing. I would have to use the stuff outside as there to many allergies to deal with . Mine and the Two ladies. I can't even be around curing Fibreglas Resin anymore!( Never used to Bother me) Not so Now, for sure!

 
Not talking about Polyester resin though.  That's a whole different animal, and its just nasty stuff whether you have allergies or not.  

"You can have my illegal fireworks when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers...which are...over there somewhere."

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Wednesday, May 25, 2022 8:39 PM

Eaglecash867;

      Oh, for sure.You remember way back when those beautiful Bunch of Grape Dining Table decorations came about? Just about the time those toys came out that were two resin balls connected by a string that clacked together? Well,  that Resin is what did me in. WE ( the factory) had a girl make a batch of a thousand of the grapes and she made them too hot! They cooked off in the building and caused the sprinklers to drown out the fire. After that day even the so called oderless resins will bother me.

      Now, I will use C.A. for many fill tasks. But, I will not use the accelerator on it. I have found it's great for smoothing seams on card and thin plastic aircraft parts. The beauty? Using C.A allows me to WET sand paper. All I have to do is isolate it to that surface. One thing is that when I have to do that. I have to use craft spray fixative. It tends to protect the card or paper for the time needed to do the work. Then Step away and let it all dry. Here's a fact. I discovered  something, that if I can, I will make a mold with a Metallic based filler. Once cured, With just a little coating of something non-sticky( read, Cooking Non-Stick here) Rubbed in well, and set aside for a day or two will allow you to make things, Thin Things, with C.A., Of course you  HAVE to do it in very thin layers.

       See? I don't think I will stop experimenting with anything model related. It's just to darned much fun! Even the Mess ups! The Cooking Spray thing works sometimes, and most times it doesn't, Seems to depend on chance, BUT, I never stop trying.

 

 

 

  • Member since
    April 2020
Posted by Eaglecash867 on Thursday, May 26, 2022 6:24 AM

Tanker-Builder
Now, I will use C.A. for many fill tasks. But, I will not use the accelerator on it. I have found it's great for smoothing seams on card and thin plastic aircraft parts.

That's exactly how I use it when filling seams.  Tried using accelerator once to try to speed up the process even more, and I found that it made it much harder and more brittle.  So, I just went back to dabbing a little into the remnants of seams and letting it cure on its own.  Then I use an ultra-fine-point sharpie and scribble the black ink all over the cured CA spots to be my leveling indicator.  Then its just a matter of wet sanding with 1500 and 1800 MicroMesh sticks until all the black is gone.  That leaves a perfectly filled and contoured seam that won't absorb paint and won't crack as I continue to work on the model.  Usually works on the first try, so it eliminates the dreaded putty, sand, repeat dance.  The times that it doesn't, I can just dab a little more CA into the missed spots, right over the primer.  As long as you dab the CA into the primered gaps and let it settle on its own, it will mix with the primer and cure like it normally would.  Don't have to worry about removing primer to get a good bond like you do with solvent-based putties.  The stuff is magical for that, and I use the same method for filling ejector pin marks.

"You can have my illegal fireworks when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers...which are...over there somewhere."

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Thursday, May 26, 2022 8:19 AM

Aha, The dreaded Ejector Pin Mark!!

         You know, when I first started using C.A. on little fill jobs, that's just what I used it for. It took me a while to use it for other fill jobs. Ya know, old habits die hard! The Bob Smith Thick I find works best for this,But, and I have to add this.For those wee holes that pop up sometimes the Gel works great too!

  • Member since
    April 2020
Posted by Eaglecash867 on Thursday, May 26, 2022 10:01 AM

I stopped using the hobby brands like Bob Smith a few years ago because after all these years they still have that crappy tip design that clogs easily.  Switched over to Gorilla Super Glue with the light blue cap and never looked back.  Their tip design never clogs.

"You can have my illegal fireworks when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers...which are...over there somewhere."

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