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Tamiya Panel Line Accent - 1st time problems

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  • Member since
    May 2011
Tamiya Panel Line Accent - 1st time problems
Posted by dazzjazz on Sunday, July 21, 2019 2:14 AM

Hi all,

I think I've managed to wreck one of the finest builds I've ever done!
I coated my FW190 in Testors gloss coat, let it dry, and applied Tamiya Panel Line Accent.

I waited a few minutes for it to dry, then use Humbrol enamel thinner on a cotton bud to clean up. 

Well, the thinner seems to have eaten into the gloss coat and it looks awful - it started looking ghostly white.

What have I done wrong? I had researched this well, watching several videos before giving it a go.

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Sunday, July 21, 2019 2:33 AM

Ah man, what a bummer.  I've done this as well.  I've found that Tamiya panel liner is a bit hot.  Also when cleaning up try something milder like turpenoid.  And clear coat with an acrylic seams to help - but I run into these paint/thinner compatiblities a lot as well.  Particulary as enamels are harder to find.  Always best to experiment on a test mule.  Sorry you ran into this on your pride and joy.

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    October 2010
Posted by hypertex on Sunday, July 21, 2019 7:45 AM

Humbrol enamel thinners are quite potent in terms of dissolving power. In fact, I keep many solvents in small, plastic dropper bottles--everything from Humbrol thinners to lacquer thinner. Only the Humbrol will eat through the plastic bottles. So there is something in there that is a bit too strong for some applications. I suspect that is the problem.

I don't use dullcoat or Tamiya panel line accent color, so I don't have any recommendations for those two products. You may have to do some tests on some scraps.

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Sunday, July 21, 2019 9:26 AM

Read the fine print on the side panel of the label:

"Danger, EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE liquid and vapor

Contents Ethyl Benzene, Xylene, Mineral Spirit, and Pigment."

Tamiya panel line is a strong solvent-based product.  As such it will eat through your solvent-based barrier (Gloss Coat).     Instead use a water/acrylic based barrier coat,  such as Future or Pledge w/ Future.   The solvents in the Tamiya will not affect the underlaying paint through the acrylic barrier coat.

Your paint job is screwed.  Strip and start over.

I have used Tamiya Panel Line directly over Vallejo with no ill affects with the exception of some shadowing where the liner pigment gets trapped among the paint pigments.  No problem here since I'm going back and dry brushing to pop the shadows intended by the panel liner.

My rule of thumb is to always mix my media.  If I am painting with enamels with a lacquer (Gloss Coat) sealer, I will wash & detail with a water or alcohol-based material (water paint or ink).   If I have painted with Acrylics I wash & detail with a solvent-based product (oils thinned with Turpenoid).  

  • Member since
    March 2015
  • From: Close to Chicago
Posted by JohnnyK on Sunday, July 21, 2019 1:58 PM

My last build was painted with Tamyia lacquer Italian Red and over coated with Testors' flat lacquer. I used Testors' enamel thinner to clean up the excess Tamyia Panel Line with no problem.The Tamyia Panel Liner is an enamel paint and must be cleaned up with enamel thinner. These are the instructions for using Tamyia Panel Line: https://www.tamiya.com/english/products/87131_133panel_accent/index.htm

Enamel thinner should not damage a lacquer paint, UNLESS you use enamel thinner over Testors' lacquer Metalizer Paints. The enamel thinner will immediatly disolve the Metalizer paint.

Your comments and questions are always welcome.

  • Member since
    February 2016
Posted by lowfly on Sunday, July 21, 2019 2:11 PM

One of my first builds...i did the exact same thing. The enamel thinner is too hot and will eat through almost anything. Try the sequence below...works for me everytime and i got it from the guys and gals on this forum!

1. Acrylic base coat

2. Acrylic Gloss Coat X 2 (I use Future Floor Shine)

3. Let the Gloss coat dry for at least 24 hours (i let it dry for 2 days minimum)

4. Oil paint washes (Windsor and Newton oil paints with odorless turpentine)

5. Clean with the odorless turpentine

 

Works great for both sludge washes and pin washes. i have not had a problem with this sequence since i started using it. Make sure that when doing clean up, you just get the cotton bud DAMP. Don't soak it and than try to clean up with it that wet. Dip the cotton bud into the turpentine, Roll it on paper towel until ALMOST dry than clean up. Good luck and let us know how it goes!

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Monday, July 22, 2019 10:00 AM

JohnnyK

 

Enamel thinner should not damage a lacquer paint, UNLESS you use enamel thinner over Testors' lacquer Metalizer Paints. The enamel thinner will immediatly disolve the Metalizer paint.

 

One problem these days is that the definition of the type of paint is broadening.  We now have acrylic lacquers.  Paints are now being labeled with the pigment, the vehicle, or the solvent.  We have to develop new rules of thumb.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    February 2016
Posted by lowfly on Monday, July 22, 2019 3:12 PM
I totally agree Don.....So i will edit my post by saying that i use Vallejo, Tamiya and Model Master acrylic paints exclusively.
  • Member since
    May 2011
Posted by dazzjazz on Tuesday, July 23, 2019 7:41 PM

Thanks for the advice everyone. Will digest and tread carefully through this minefield.

Nice to be a part of this forum.

Darren

  • Member since
    July 2019
Posted by Robotism on Wednesday, July 24, 2019 2:01 PM

We've all been in the same position where we really liked a kit and then something ate it or we made a mistake that spoiled it. It sounds like you may have learned a lot along the way and your next kit will be even better. Consider every kit you've ruined to be one more mistake you won't make again and soon you will be mistake free (a man can dream).

As a rule of thumb before applying any sort of enamel based washes to plastic I always apply 2 coats of Future floor polish over the surface, making sure there's no where for the wash to sneak into. Some plastics react poorly to enamel washes and will crumble or become brittle and snap when touched. It's best to apply them in small amounts over the gloss and don't let them pool. A lot of the newer enamel washes and effects are designed for adding dirt and grime, they will collect in recesses and start chewing away at it if you over apply. Most panel lines don't hold enough of them for this to be a problem but it's always best to do 2 thin coats than 1 large.

For Tamiya panel liner I found just a dry q tip will take the excess off fine. If it hasn't dried it will be absorbed and unless you're painting a light colour it should clean up perfectly.

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Thursday, August 1, 2019 7:00 AM

To be on the safe side I never use a solvent type wash over a solvent type topcoat. I use an acrylic like Future or Aqua Gloss as a barrier coat. Depending on what type of solvent type used to clean up, it may or may not attack another solvent type surface so why risk it? 

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Longmont, Colorado
Posted by Cadet Chuck on Thursday, August 1, 2019 12:13 PM

I don't like that stuff, for reasons stated previously.  No matter how careful I am when applying it, it does not just stay in the panel lines, as it should.  It always slops over, leaving a big cleanup job, and I end up with an "overweathered" model that just looks dirty all over.

I have had my best luck with Tamiya acrylics, thinned with water.

Gimme a pigfoot, and a bottle of beer...

  • Member since
    June 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Friday, August 2, 2019 12:02 PM

DazzJazz;

    I have found that using drafting ink in Dk.Grey and Black work well . They stay on after you do your lines and then clearcoat them .Then Topcoat .

  • Member since
    January 2014
Posted by Silver on Saturday, August 10, 2019 3:19 PM

The Tamiya product is actually a thin ink.

  • Member since
    August 2019
  • From: Northern Nevada
Posted by HighDesertmodeler on Tuesday, August 20, 2019 10:07 PM

I lay down a coat of acrylic Vallejo Satin Varnish and never had a problem with Tamiya panel liner removing underlying acrylic base. I’m sorry that it happened but you’re not alone we’ve all learned from our mistakes.

  • Member since
    February 2020
Posted by AlexH on Saturday, February 1, 2020 3:13 PM

Hi, I know you replied here 6 months ago- wondering if you can help, or anyone for that matte.

I have always been a Tamiya arcrylic user but I'm trying to improve the detail of panel lines- have been wanting to use the Tamiya enamel panel liner but was wondering if you had any tips as to how to protect the arcrylic layers below? 
is pledge with future appropriate here? As I'm novice- how is it best applied?

or are other detailing media better? If so- how would you advise their use?

regards 

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Tuesday, February 4, 2020 7:09 AM

AlexH

Hi, I know you replied here 6 months ago- wondering if you can help, or anyone for that matte.

I have always been a Tamiya arcrylic user but I'm trying to improve the detail of panel lines- have been wanting to use the Tamiya enamel panel liner but was wondering if you had any tips as to how to protect the arcrylic layers below? 
is pledge with future appropriate here? As I'm novice- how is it best applied?

or are other detailing media better? If so- how would you advise their use?

regards 

 

Even though Tamiya is not a true acrylic, I have NEVER had issues using solvent type washes over it. As a matter of fact, one of the model shows I attended had a weathering class where the instructor used Tamiya clear semigloss as a barrier over Alclad metallic paint he was weathering. He liked the semigloss cause it gave enough bite for the solvent type filters and artist oil paints but could easily be cleaned up.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    December 2019
  • From: Florida, USA
Posted by Niko on Wednesday, February 5, 2020 9:26 PM

I made a similar mistake on a Mk.IV a few months ago with Tamiya panel wash. I can feel your pain.

I totally agree with the pros on here who say to coat with future and then use the panel wash. Future works really well for these products in my experience. 

It's a shame your paint job did not turn out, but it's definitely a learning experience and there is always a second time!

"The farther back you look, the farther forward you are likely to see." - Winston Churchill

IN PRODUCTION:

Trumpeter KV-2 1940 1/72

Tamiya Flakpanzer IV Wirbelwind 1/48

 

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