Food Dehydrator for paint drying

Greg

Which reminds, keep forgetting to ask. Will a dryer/dehydrator speed up regular plastic cement drying time? I would think no, since the joins are internal (well, mostly)

Seems like it might shorten the time a little bit.  I would think the higher temperature would accelerate the evaporation of the solvents.  Whether that would be a good thing or a bad thing, however, is another story.  It might serve to weaken a cement weld by not giving it enough time to work.

missileman2000

I found another modeling use for my paint dryer.  I created a base and modelled some ground cover using celluclay.  I make it fairly wet, so it dries slow.  Putting it in my paint dryer sure speeds things up!

 

 

That's a great tip, Don.

Which reminds, keep forgetting to ask. Will a dryer/dehydrator speed up regular plastic cement drying time? I would think no, since the joins are internal (well, mostly)

I found another modeling use for my paint dryer.  I created a base and modelled some ground cover using celluclay.  I make it fairly wet, so it dries slow.  Putting it in my paint dryer sure speeds things up!

oldermodelguy

Hah ! I NEVER STOP TESTING as it's a hobby in itself for me, seriously !

Interesting you mention that. As I've been messing with paints and techniques and the new dehydrator and lots of plastic spoons the past couple weeks, it occurred to me that I think I enjoy fiddling and testing as much, if not maybe more, than building.

I must say that even that process is more fun with the dehydrator, because of getting to see results faster. I've even taken a liking to square bottle Testors enamel again.

Thanks for your thoughts, always interesting.

Greg

 

 

PhoenixG

Thank you Greg for asking this question!

 

You're welcome.

Just a heads-up, not sure you should ever expect a rock-hard finish with Vallejo, even with a dehydrator. But perhaps. I'm starting to question myself if I've been failing to mix thoroughly and I think I already said I have tended to lay it down way too thick. Neither would lead to a nice hard finish.

11 yrs later and I'm still testing. Never said I was the fastest learner.

 

Hah ! I NEVER STOP TESTING as it's a hobby in itself for me, seriously !

But a casual observation much as your own, say I spray a plastic canvas roof with Stynylrez and top coat with MA, then dehydrate ( I have done this). That roof is then likely to sit a week before I get back to this piece. But I notice it feels truly cured, it's really dry. That just confirms what you already stated in another post. I just do fingernail scatch tests personally and never would do that straight out of the dehydrator but rather after cooling and probably the next day. Vallejo MA passes a solid moderate scratching at that point. Within a few days it just feels all the more dry and hard shell. This beats what you have said about room temp air drying by quite a margin. And I've only ever shot Vallejo over Stynylrez ( also dehydrated but only 30 minutes) so I can't speak for it's ability to stick to bare plastic at all.

I'm an advocate of dehydrators or those paint dryer cabinets,some of which are not priced bad at all imo.. Even the home made one mentioned within this thread ( if they employ moving air with something like a computer fan just to keep the air fresh and some form of temp control). Even to lift the box an inch and use a box fan to pass air by the dehydrator might be sufficien to change air supply inside the box continually.

By the way, I believe craft paints benefit from similar treatment. I've found them to be quite hard shelled and durable in my tests when heat set in the dehydrator. I have no qualms about using craft paints in my builds as long as things are primed and I dehydrate them. The same can be said for Goldens High flow artist paints and Liquitex Soft Body, even Liquitex Basics line acrylic artist paints can be thinned and airbrushed. These all airbrush great when mixed right.Golden High Flow and Liquitex Soft are both rated for either brush or airbrushing anyway. They even make an airbrush medium for them, though that tends to addsheen to the paints so I don't always use it.. Nuff said today lol.

PhoenixG

I'll probabaly try something like what Don did and cobble something together with a lightbulb as a heater for testing.

Great idea.

PhoenixG

I've mixed the snot out of this stuff and put it on nice and thin and still had it peel right off.

You probably know this, but although I think Vallejo adheres pretty well (for an acrylic, that is .......if allowed to cure), I always use a good primer under it. Tamiya, Stynylrez, Mr Surfacer, etc. I've never had great luck with Vallejo surface primer.

I still use Vallejo because it self-levels like no other acrylic I've used, and the good color selection. (not to mention that I went goofy buying the stuff back in '13 when I got back into the hobby).

Hope you let us know how the dehydrator/dryer experiments work out.

Greg

Just a heads-up, not sure you should ever expect a rock-hard finish with Vallejo, even with a dehydrator.

Appreciate the words of caution.

I like the results I get with Vallejo paint but the durability has been it's achilles heel  Even a slight increase in durability will be a win. 

I've mixed the snot out of this stuff and put it on nice and thin and still had it peel right off.  I won't itemize the lengths I go through to help improve adhesion and durability, but it can be a pain.

I'll probabaly try something like what Don did and cobble something together with a lightbulb as a heater for testing. 

PhoenixG

Thank you Greg for asking this question!

You're welcome.

Just a heads-up, not sure you should ever expect a rock-hard finish with Vallejo, even with a dehydrator. But perhaps. I'm starting to question myself if I've been failing to mix thoroughly and I think I already said I have tended to lay it down way too thick. Neither would lead to a nice hard finish.

11 yrs later and I'm still testing. Never said I was the fastest learner.

I've experienced all the issues shared with Vallejo paints.  I still like using them but when they came off it can be like peeling latex paint.  if curing them with a dehydrator creates the hardness/chip resistance suggested then it's completely worth the investment.

Absolute next item on my tool list is to get/build a dehydrator/drying box.

Thank you Greg for asking this question!

Thanks, OMG.

Appreciate your Vallejo-specific comments, Brandon.

BTW, I just got done stripping a part and it's in the dehydrator drying off so I can start over. Thanks again for the tip.

I use alot of Vallejo paint. It's a pretty delicate paint and scratches or rubs off easily. Since I started drying with my dehydrator I have had nearly no issues with it like I had before. I'm sure some of that is the dehydrator curing the paint fully, but also my learning to handle those paint jobs with more care. I will never go back to air drying any of my work now that I've seen how much better dehydrators make painting.

BK

Greg

 

Sure is interesting that you've never used Vallejo without using a dryer/dehydrator.

 

Not that I recall Greg. I started using Vallejo MA though 4-5-6 years ago and more recently added the MC to the list.All my acrylic adventures in fact have been tons of experiments and also actual paint jobs using acrylic on some of them for about 8 years or so. And the dehydrator drying came in about the same time the Valljo MA came into my life. But prior to 8 years ago all the way back to around 1960 I shot all solvent based paints. So ya, Vallejo is fairly new to me, especially MC and the dehydrator in place at the same time. So I never questioned it, into the dehydrator it went and still does to this day.

Course I use other paints too including solvent based.

Thanks for your additional thoughts, and additional info on your 2 posts up.

Back to the Vallejo for a sec, I've never, ever had a situation where unprimed Vallejo Model Air has passed an aggressive scratch test, and I almost fell over when I did it on the one that had been in the dehydrator.

Important disclaimer: that wasn't after just 2 hrs in the dehydrator, though. It was, as I said, as 'hard' as VMA gets, but it didn't pass a very aggressive scratch test. I surely did pass a regular scratch test, and after 2 hrs, that surprised me.

It is now 5 days later, and it's been sitting inside the dehydrator cycling with everything else all week, 5 days later that I can hardly get the Vallejo to scratch off. It's nuts.

Sure is interesting that you've never used Vallejo without using a dryer/dehydrator.

Greg

Thanks for taking the time to share specifically some of your routines, OMG, very helpful.

Any particular reason for 108 (vs 113) on the lacquers? And also lower on the acrylics?

Speaking of airflow, I've been pretty routinely drying stuff in moving air for quite some time. But the heat and also increased airflow in the new machine sure makes a big difference.

My most notable test result so far has been Vallejo Model Air on 2 spoons, one in paint booth with fan on (so it has had airflow about half of the time), other in the dehydrator at about 110 degrees.

Vallejo is interesting to me cuz I use it all the time, it remains 'rubbery' for up to 3 weeks, depending on how heavily it's sprayed, and never cures rock hard like some paints.

The test spoon Vallejo was definitely handle-able in an hour, in two it 'felt' fully cured, even though I doubt it was, not quite. Now 5 days later, the air/fan dry control is approaching almost fully cured. Even more interesting, the dehydrator one is almost impervious to scratching off. The other one, not so much. (no primer, right on the spoon).

 

Lacquer just doesn't need much heat, my kits range in age from modern plastics to really old original Entex and Minicraft and such. If I don't really need the extra heat I don't use it.

Vallejo for me gets an hour. It doesn't feel sticky and as you say ( and actually you bring up an awesome point I hadn't thought too hard on) it's more hard shell finish with some heat. I've done acrylics at 108 and 110, pretty much the same result which makes sense. it my craft paints that I use quite a bit of that I just don't feel matters how hot so much. I've even done those at 100 from time to time. But that is about the lower limit where I use retarder in my thinners and if I want accelorated long term dry without airing a couple of days.

So back to that point though of the harder finish. I've had no issues with Vallejo scratching overly easy but always have used both primer and the dehydrator. Now I'm wondering if the heat setting up of Vallejo is the difference in what we are getting from the product and those whom we hear complaints from on the same product ? Could be, which makes sense because those folks get to making me scratch my head lol.I just don't have that issue.

On another note I added an edit to my previous post.

Thanks for taking the time to share specifically some of your routines, OMG, very helpful.

Any particular reason for 108 (vs 113) on the lacquers? And also lower on the acrylics?

Speaking of airflow, I've been pretty routinely drying stuff in moving air for quite some time. But the heat and also increased airflow in the new machine sure makes a big difference.

My most notable test result so far has been Vallejo Model Air on 2 spoons, one in paint booth with fan on (so it has had airflow about half of the time), other in the dehydrator at about 110 degrees.

Vallejo is interesting to me cuz I use it all the time, it remains 'rubbery' for up to 3 weeks, depending on how heavily it's sprayed, and never cures rock hard like some paints.

The test spoon Vallejo was definitely handle-able in an hour, in two it 'felt' fully cured, even though I doubt it was, not quite. Now 5 days later, the air/fan dry control is approaching almost fully cured. Even more interesting, the dehydrator one is almost impervious to scratching off. The other one, not so much. (no primer, right on the spoon).

TB,

Your input is always fun to read. Thanks.

I actually use an air fryer that has the dehydrator mode and use heat setting from 105-112f. It works great. I dry enamels at about 112f for 4 hours if I just want to handle the parts and let air drying do the rest over time. That 4 hours does shorten up the overall time to full cure. But full cure in the dehydrator is 6-8 hours or basically just leave it overnight. I'll give lacquers 10-15 minutes at around the 108 setting. Acrylics tends to be around 30 min to an hour depending on brand. But all my acrylics tend to have retarder in them. Acrylic get anywhere from 105-110, it's not a specific plan the just actually need the airflow and warm is faster than cold. You can actually flash off manycrylics with air from your airbrush between coats or use a hair dryer. But full when using retarder takes longer. I've seen Tamiya acrylic with retarder take three days to be fuller cure if not using the dehydrator.

Edit: I seem to notice with Tamiya acrylics in gloss, addition gloss when drying with heat between that 105-108 setting, going to 110 doesn't really change that much. Could be my wild imagination but it's something worth observing and see what you all think for yourselves.

Like you guys are saying with RMP lacquer, Tamiya LP in the bottles don't really need the dehydrator even with Mr Leveling thinner which has some retarder in it. But my disclaimer there is it depends on your environments drying conditions, dew point etc. The dehydrator levels that playing field a lot. These are nice paints and my local hobby store stocks them.

Oho!

       I do get asked by folks if I eat a lot of Pudding, Because they see spoons everywhere! Yes, even on Brush painting the Spoon is the go to. Why? Well, you certainly tell if the coverage is what you want or if the paint product is too thin for brushing ,Yada,Yada,Yada!. Like others I now buy them buy the 100 count. The change in paint brands has me back to Old Methods with Testors,mainly Mixing their enamels for the Color I need .The acrylics are okay but, you have to many steps to Brush. I don't have the time to add,Retarder,Thinner and so on.

       Yeah, Mixing takes time. But, when I get the shade and temperature I need then I can create a larger than normal batch for my projects. remember Models of ships and Stuff are NOT the only models I build for folks. I have at least Twelve colors for Brick Red and Brick Yellow. I have at least two you might be puzzled about.Aged ,burn't Brick and Industrial Aged Brick. Did you know the bricks used on Buildings in steel Mills used to turn Black ,Blackish and very dark Burnt Black red! So for some folks who cannot handle modeling buildings, I help them out.They are members of the Club and Museum after all.

missileman2000

Why the "ha ha?"

Oh, I don't know, Don. I guess at the time I must have found it funny that my fancy new dehydrator was full of plastic spoons. It really doesn't make sense on re-read.

Yes, I go through so many plastic spoons for testing that I happen to have a new box on my grocery list right now.

I've often wondered if spoons are really a good test substrate seeing as I don't know if they are polystyrene or not, and they are so slippery smooth. I'm taking your endorsement as a last-word "yes" on that question, and thanks for that.

Greg

 

 

stikpusher

One tidbit of advice from a secondhand source. Don't forget about your model in the food dehydrator. One of the guys did from So Cal AMPS did that during our 12 hour GB challenge and accidentally destroyed his model that way.

 

 

 

 

Yikes! I'd sure like to know more details about that, especially at what temperature that happened, but how would you know.

Good tip, Stik, and you've given me an idea. Clear out a some of my test spoons (ha ha) to make room for a test sprue with a nice thin or skinny or both piece and run some tests, for sure.

Thanks!

 

Why the "ha ha?"  A lot of my modeling friends have spoons just for paint testing, and refer to them as their test spoons.  I thoroughly endorse doing experimenting when there is a question about a new technique.  BTW, I consider spoons better than sprue- closer to the shape of model parts.  Drying times do depend on local curvature of surface.

stikpusher

One tidbit of advice from a secondhand source. Don't forget about your model in the food dehydrator. One of the guys did from So Cal AMPS did that during our 12 hour GB challenge and accidentally destroyed his model that way.

 

Yikes! I'd sure like to know more details about that, especially at what temperature that happened, but how would you know.

Good tip, Stik, and you've given me an idea. Clear out a some of my test spoons (ha ha) to make room for a test sprue with a nice thin or skinny or both piece and run some tests, for sure.

Thanks!

One tidbit of advice from a secondhand source. Don't forget about your model in the food dehydrator. One of the guys did from So Cal AMPS did that during our 12 hour GB challenge and accidentally destroyed his model that way.

Eaglecash867

Yup. The Oster I bought is the only toaster oven I know of that can have its temperature adjusted as low as 100 degrees. All of the others are way too hot for plastic.

Ahhh,

Glad you pointed that out, I wasn't aware there were any toaster ovens on the market that went that low.

I stand corrected, and thanks!

Greg

BTW, for any visitors landing here from a search, don't use a toaster oven (which TankerBuilder mentioned, (inadvertantly, I'm sure) instead of a dehydrator or dedicated paint-dryer like Don's above. Lowest adjustable temperature is far to hot and will almost certainly warp styrene of certain shapes.

Yup.  The Oster I bought is the only toaster oven I know of that can have its temperature adjusted as low as 100 degrees.  All of the others are way too hot for plastic.

Tanker-Builder

I have read a lot; And I think I would rather take a break and read than Use a Dehydrator or Toaster oven. Thing is, I have never gotten in any kind of hurry at this phase. I build to my schedule.......

Understood, Doc, and it's neat that you are able to do that.

Wish I could too, but I need to keep some sort of rythem/progress going or I lose interest. Too many delays stack up, and I end up frustrated and on modeling haitus like my last 18 months.

We are all wired differently, and I respect your position and even envy your patience in waiting for paint to dry.

Thanks for joining the discussion.

BTW, for any visitors landing here from a search, don't use a toaster oven (which TankerBuilder mentioned, (inadvertantly, I'm sure) instead of a dehydrator or dedicated paint-dryer like Don's above. Lowest adjustable temperature is far to hot and will almost certainly warp styrene of certain shapes.

I have read a lot;

       And I think I would rather take a break and read than Use a Dehydrator or Toaster oven. Thing is, I have never gotten in any kind of hurry at this phase. I build to my schedule not any Show or Contest schedule. I just simply refuse to. If I don't show the model til the next time so be it! I only show now( Display Only Table), I don't do contests because of the Attitudes of some folks toward newbies and their classical mistakes.This is one thing that will make my blood Boil. Boiling Blood and Temper are not a good mix!

       That and I got in a heated arguments with some judges once where we had to go in a closed room. Why? Well some Nit-Picker said and argued vehemently that My Piping was wrong on a Scratch-Built Tanker, Deck Piping, that happened to be a model of the ship I was Captain of at the time. Even with On deck Photos he was insisting I was wrong and it should be pulled because it wasn't "Up to Snuff!" (His words). I don't put up with that anymore by not competing.

Don,

I was hoping you would chime in. I know you have had good success with your home-made unit but couldn't find specific threads.

The dimmer to control the incandescant bulb is brilliant, I'd wondered how you controlled the temp, which you probably explained but I forgot.

Great to know the temp you use. 110 degrees, got it.

Thanks, Don!

BTW, mine does have a temp control. You made me think it might not be a bad idea to put a thermometer inside to check accuracy, more or less.

Be sure you get a dehydrator that has a temperature setting.  I know people who did get a cheap control-less one and melted their models.  I built a cheapy using a 60 watt incondescent bulb and a light dimmer, and have a spare thermometer in the box.  I run it at about 110 F.

Ah....Darn it!

BTW, Brandon, I forgot to mention that I like your idea of using the dehydrator to dry parts after washing and before painting.....a really good tip.

Greg

Well...... put it in the Oster, then!

LOL!  Wish I could, but it won't fit.