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Glue Questions

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  • Member since
    September 2021
Glue Questions
Posted by NervusTwitch on Monday, June 6, 2022 4:29 PM

I have some questions about glues and using those glues.

For the past 25 years Ive have done nothing but cars. Now as a kid in the 80's I put together many military aircraft, mostly modern jets and back then all I used was the Testors tube glue. With the autos I used that and a bottle of Ambroid Weld that is now gone.

I got a couple types recently of Mr. Cement.Testors Liquid and I have a bottle of Plast-I-Weld. Hopefully these work well.

Now for the question.

Ive been watching some vids of some building modern fighter jetts since Im currently about to start on the Tamiya F-16CJ kit. Ive noticed that with glue they are using are the types that look simialr to the Mr. Cement  stuff that they are also running beads along the outside joints.

EX: Where the wings meets the fuselage,stabilizers,upper and lower fuselage halves are joined.

My previous experience when trying planes as a kid, you never wanted to get any glue touching the outside that shows since it just melts into the plastic.

So how does builders use these liquid glues on the outer parts without it melting plastic or looking like a glue bomb?

What exact type of glue are they using?

Does the glue not melt, and go "invisible after drying?

Im kind of confused to how Im seeing it done vs. what I have always known and learned to be a "Dont DO"?

So any info,advise just anything on the subject would be great. I dont want to mess up my kit. Plus Ive been away from modeling for the last 6-7 yrs and alot seems to changed in supplies availability.

Thanks and sorry if its a long rambling post.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, June 6, 2022 4:52 PM

These are all good questions.

 

As a warm up, I suggest you pick up some cheap old kits, like Tamiya armor, and practice with glues and application. The models you see in this mag/ site are the tip of the iceberg of a lot of previous efforts and experience gained, usually the last round of several builds of the same kit.

You can do that too, just give yourself time to get a feel for it.

The Plasti-weld I am familiar with is designed to glue PVC together. It's right for things like Plastruct and plumbing, but not styrene. 

Testors liquid cement is good, as is Tamiya Thin and Extra Thin, Tenax and several others.

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2021
Posted by NervusTwitch on Monday, June 6, 2022 5:51 PM

Yea I used the plasti-weld since I did alot of scratch building with plastistruct in the past..

I did purchase a couple of cheap kits from hobby lobby a couple weeks or so back since they were %40 off. 

They were 1/72 Academy kits I paid about $10 each for. The f-16a and a-10a. Personally I was not impressed with the f-16 kit at all. A10 looked a lil better but no clue how well it fits. But these are my warmup kits since the last aircraft kit I built was a 1/48 p-47 early to mid 90's.

 

Is the Mr Cement stuff good, similar to the tamiya you suggested? Most supplies I have to order since we only have hobby lobby which isn't great.

Do these mentioned cements melt like the old testers tube stuff or more gentle on plastic?

I only recently learned there is no more Model Masters paint which is what I primarily used. Hopefully all the stuff I ordered for military aircraft colors are good, never used Tamiya and Ammo paints but I did order alot of them.

Thanks.

  • Member since
    April 2020
Posted by Eaglecash867 on Monday, June 6, 2022 6:17 PM

In the videos where they're applying the liquid cement to the outside of a joint, they're probably using Tamiya Extra Thin or something similar.  It does melt plastic, which is what makes that technique so effective.  What I do with Tamiya Extra Thin is to put the two pieces I want to join together first, and then open the joint just a tiny bit so there is a gap between them that is no wider than the thickness of a piece of paper.  This provides an area for the Tamiya Extra Thin to go, and it keeps it from evaporating instantly which gives it time to work on the plastic.  You don't really want to "run a bead" though, you just lightly touch the brush to the joint and you'll see the cement get drawn along the joint by capillary action.  I usually do an inch or two at a time.  With each tap of the brush on the tiny gap between the pieces, I then wait about 20 seconds before firmly pressing the pieces together.  You'll see a tiny bead of melted plastic get pushed up from the joint as the two pieces are welded together by the solvents in the cement.  At the same time, you want to check the alignment of your two pieces to make sure you get panel lines aligned, and also check the up and down alignment of the joint so the two sides are flush with each other and you don't have a step.  You can make adjustments to the alignment before the plastic solidifies again.  24 hours after gluing the pieces together, I use MicroMesh sanding sticks, starting with 1500 grit, and gently sand away the bead of melted plastic, which leaves the pieces welded together, with virtually no visible seam between them.

"You can have my illegal fireworks when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers...which are...over there somewhere."

  • Member since
    September 2021
Posted by NervusTwitch on Monday, June 6, 2022 6:24 PM

Eaglecash867

In the videos where they're applying the liquid cement to the outside of a joint, they're probably using Tamiya Extra Thin or something similar.  It does melt plastic, which is what makes that technique so effective.  What I do with Tamiya Extra Thin is to put the two pieces I want to join together first, and then open the joint just a tiny bit so there is a gap between them that is no wider than the thickness of a piece of paper.  This provides an area for the Tamiya Extra Thin to go, and it keeps it from evaporating instantly which gives it time to work on the plastic.  You don't really want to "run a bead" though, you just lightly touch the brush to the joint and you'll see the cement get drawn along the joint by capillary action.  I usually do an inch or two at a time.  With each tap of the brush on the tiny gap between the pieces, I then wait about 20 seconds before firmly pressing the pieces together.  You'll see a tiny bead of melted plastic get pushed up from the joint as the two pieces are welded together by the solvents in the cement.  At the same time, you want to check the alignment of your two pieces to make sure you get panel lines aligned, and also check the up and down alignment of the joint so the two sides are flush with each other and you don't have a step.  You can make adjustments to the alignment before the plastic solidifies again.  24 hours after gluing the pieces together, I use MicroMesh sanding sticks, starting with 1500 grit, and gently sand away the bead of melted plastic, which leaves the pieces welded together, with virtually no visible seam between them.

 

 

That answered some of my concerns right there.It's what I was sort of picturing in my head but wast sure since Ive mostly built with thick glues and rarely thin liquids and when I did it was usually on Plastistruct for scratch building.

Thank you for the detailed explanation.

I still welcome any info,tips, and tricks.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, June 6, 2022 7:27 PM

Thin liquid cement will happily run uner your finger tip and make a finger print. Don't ask...

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2021
Posted by NervusTwitch on Monday, June 6, 2022 11:29 PM

GMorrison

Thin liquid cement will happily run uner your finger tip and make a finger print. Don't ask...

 

Bill

 

 

No need to ask.

I was bad about this when I first started building kits at age 8 in early 80's...lol.

My dad worked as a truck driver for a toy store and a box of models was damaged. So they wrote it off and told him to do whatever he wanted with the kits. None of the kit were actually damaged is what my dad told me.

Turns out the box was full of various Kenworth and Peterbuilt kits and even a box and tanker trailer. Thanks to that he let me have one then I ended up with the entire case of kits that I happily built and been a hobby off/on since.

  • Member since
    April 2020
Posted by Eaglecash867 on Tuesday, June 7, 2022 6:03 AM

NervusTwitch
That answered some of my concerns right there.It's what I was sort of picturing in my head but wast sure since Ive mostly built with thick glues and rarely thin liquids and when I did it was usually on Plastistruct for scratch building. Thank you for the detailed explanation. I still welcome any info,tips, and tricks.

There used to be an excellent video tutorial on this that changed everything for me, which is where I learned the technique from.  Tried it for the first time, and it was like finding the Holy Grail.  I looked around on YouTube to see if I could find a similar video (since that one is no longer there), but no such luck.  All of the tutorials on there now for using Tamiya Extra Thin are showing the "conventional wisdom" method, which has become simply the wrong way to do it IMHO.  Seen lots of guys in those videos brushing it on just like you saw...YIKES!  Then there are the guys who tap it on, but don't give it time to work before they immediately mash the parts together and clamp them.

"You can have my illegal fireworks when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers...which are...over there somewhere."

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Towson MD
Posted by gregbale on Tuesday, June 7, 2022 8:14 AM

I use Tamiya Extra Thin quite often for attaching/assembling small parts...but for long seam runs like assembling wings and fuselages, I prefer what used to be called Tenax 7R -- now 'StyreneTack-It II' (and Micro-Mark has an excellent version called 'Same Stuff'). It's a super low viscosity styrene adhesive, all you need to do is touch it to a seam and it spreads along through capillary action. It chemically welds the two surfaces together (as pretty much any styrene-specific adhesive does), and sets almost immediately.

I apply mine with a prong-type draftsman's ruling pen. I just find it faster and easier to use for long seams than the Tamiya product.

Cheers

Greg

George Lewis:

"Every time you correct me on my grammar I love you a little fewer."
 
  • Member since
    September 2021
Posted by NervusTwitch on Tuesday, June 7, 2022 11:31 AM

Thanks again.

So best to use thin glue,let it pull itself in without needing to brush it on the seams.

Yes those vids with them just brushing it own just doesnt seem right to me and the reason I came here.

 

  • Member since
    April 2020
Posted by Eaglecash867 on Tuesday, June 7, 2022 12:15 PM

Heh...I've even seen videos on YouTube with guys taking the Tamiya Extra Thin, applying it to parts before assembly, and then putting the parts together.  The video moves on before you get to see what they just put together fall apart because the cement had already evaporated in the amount of time it took to put the parts together. 

"You can have my illegal fireworks when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers...which are...over there somewhere."

  • Member since
    September 2021
Posted by NervusTwitch on Tuesday, June 7, 2022 12:58 PM

Eaglecash867

Heh...I've even seen videos on YouTube with guys taking the Tamiya Extra Thin, applying it to parts before assembly, and then putting the parts together.  The video moves on before you get to see what they just put together fall apart because the cement had already evaporated in the amount of time it took to put the parts together. 

 

Im guessing use a thicker/slower drying glue on the inside where it doesnt matter so much and then use thin glue pulled into the seams using the capillary action others mentioned?

Really wanting to get started on a build but HobbyLinc is taking forever to ship my paints since I have no military colors, just automotive colors in my supplies.

  • Member since
    April 2020
Posted by Eaglecash867 on Tuesday, June 7, 2022 1:21 PM

The thicker cement does have its uses, but I mostly stick with the thin stuff.  Interior pieces such as the individual pieces that make up cockpits can usually be secured with the thin cement after putting the two pieces together.  For example, you can usually put a stick, throttle, panel, or console into the bucket and then flip the bucket upside-down to touch just a little bit of the thin cement to the back side of the joint.  If the part is painted already, you just have to make sure to scrape away any paint that might be on either mating surface.  Also, with painted parts and thin cement, remember gravity...make sure to quickly flip the part upright again after touching the cement where you want it, otherwise it will continue following gravity into areas you don't want it to be.

BTW...not sure if your F-16CJ is the 1/32 version, but here's a link to the build I finished a year or two ago.  Might give you some ideas.

https://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/2/t/186959.aspx

 

"You can have my illegal fireworks when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers...which are...over there somewhere."

  • Member since
    September 2021
Posted by NervusTwitch on Tuesday, June 7, 2022 2:34 PM

Very nice build. I'll def refference it. 

I was meaning for the thicker glue to use in places like when mating the upper and lower fuselage in the area of the locater pins to give a bit of working time lining things up. Mainly since it was mentioned that the thin stuff dries fairly quick.

No mine isnt the 1/32, its the smaller version mainly since Ive been away from military models for so long and the room they take up once completed.Plus it was on sale.

Im starting small,get used to military builds again and well building in general since its been 6-7 years since Ive done any building.

I really like details to show and unless is a car build it has to look used.

Ive been looking at available kits but being a car builder for so long Im not too familiar with the military model brands. I know Tamiya is normally a good choice. Not impressed with the Academy practice kits I got.

Wanting to build an F-14,A-10,F-4 and F-15 in the future but so many brands to choose from.

 

  • Member since
    April 2020
Posted by Eaglecash867 on Tuesday, June 7, 2022 5:19 PM

That's the beauty of the thin stuff, with the upper and lower fuselage halves of the F-16, you can get everything lined up before any glue goes on it...then you just touch the brush to the joints.  Tamiya does a really good job with engineering their joints to be where you would normally have a panel line anyway, so you can just get the parts lined up, hold them together, and touch the brush to the joint and let the cement get drawn in.  It helps to have a good magnifier and a bright light so you can see how far the cement is getting drawn along the seam.  Its definitely something that takes practice and experimentation to see what technique works best for you though.

I have built the Tamiya F-14A and it was excellent. Their A-10 is kinda meh...since its still pretty much the same kit that was released in the late 70s.  Their F-4B is amazing...still working on mine and loving every minute of it (been slowly working on it since November, getting every detail as close to perfection as I can manage).  A lot of easter eggs hidden in that kit that aren't even mentioned in the instructions.  I went through the painstaking process of removing the slot from the slotted stabilator because I was making a pre-1968 F-4B...got it painted and plated and everything...and that was when I discovered that Tamiya had already included a non-slotted, pre-1968 stabilator in the kit.  They also have a pre-1968 drag chute door that isn't mentioned in the instructions included in the kit.  Did have to buy pre-1968 Mk. 5 ejection seats from Eduard though, since the kit just has Mk. 7s...as well as an Eduard vertical stab without the ECM gear on the tail cap.  I have been working on their 1/32 F-15E off and on over the years, and it too is excellent, just putting off finishing it because I'm not sure I'll have room to display it when its built.

"You can have my illegal fireworks when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers...which are...over there somewhere."

  • Member since
    September 2021
Posted by NervusTwitch on Tuesday, June 7, 2022 6:55 PM

Thanks for details. 

I didnt realize Tamiya went that much into detail with the aircraft kits. I helped my son many years back build a Tamiya tank kit, seemed to be really nice but armour isnt my strong point. I did do a Tamiya car kit, it was ok. 

Thier aircraft seem to be the way to go. I did see a GHW F-14D kit on a vid being built and it seemed it had a lot of options of way to build. Things like airbrake open/closed,flap positions and such. But never heard of them before.

The bigger scale kits I really do like to build but where to put them when finshed has always been an issue. As a kid I just used fishing line and hung them from the ceiling. I had something like 30+ 1/48 and a couple bigger scale, dont remember scale. 

 

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Wednesday, June 8, 2022 12:59 PM

Hi N.T.!

       First off there is nothing wrong, with any advice you have Gotten. It is true that gluing can be a frightful thing. I do something the rest of the folks would probably disagree with! I do not put ANY model together that has Vertical or Horizontal seams with the locator pins intact!

       That can be scary the first time You try it. But, the benefit? You can superalign the pieces before glue. Then, Put a wee bit on a seam that allows you to touch the brush, Inside the aircraft shell. Capillary action, as mentioned will then do the rest. What I also do is I take good old "Magic Manding Tape" Then when I cannot move the pieces easily tape them together. The glue won't destroy the tape and you will have that wee bead of squish to sand and yer done!

 Glues have their fans, I have used pretty much all of them. I now use Tamiya Green Top(Extra Thin) or The bottled glue from Micro-Mark. Testors has too much of an odor for here. I will use others like KIBRI or Faller Tube stuff, Because it sets quick and that's what you want for very large models or buildings

 I do still use all the rest. It depends on the project and so on. I still use ( Type S )! I have at least one of every tube type and gosh knows how many soft bottle stuff and then the pure liquid. Remember, I have a lot of supplies from when the Studio was open! Some quite old and possible "Iffy".

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Towson MD
Posted by gregbale on Wednesday, June 8, 2022 5:41 PM

Just a small addendum to using any of the 'capillary action' type glues: jaw-type clamps are okay, but if you use tape or rubber bands or similar to keep parts good and snug while the glue dries, be sure to attach them only after that seam-following adhesive has been applied. Otherwise it will follow the tape/rubber bands right up onto the part surface, leaving yet one more messy bit to be sanded off and/or rescribed, etc.

Ask me how I know that....Embarrassed

Greg

George Lewis:

"Every time you correct me on my grammar I love you a little fewer."
 
  • Member since
    March 2015
  • From: Close to Chicago
Posted by JohnnyK on Thursday, June 9, 2022 3:15 PM

I am really old school. Ninety percent of the time I use Testors' red label plastic cement. It's great for sticking large plastic parts together, like the fuselage of my SR-71. Otherwise I use Tamiya Extra Thin. I also use super glue on PE parts.

Your comments and questions are always welcome.

  • Member since
    September 2021
Posted by NervusTwitch on Thursday, June 9, 2022 4:24 PM

JohnnyK

I am really old school. Ninety percent of the time I use Testors' red label plastic cement. It's great for sticking large plastic parts together, like the fuselage of my SR-71. Otherwise I use Tamiya Extra Thin. I also use super glue on PE parts.

 

 

Thats always been me with the red tube. But I really hate how it can easily make a mess.

I remember putting together I think it was either Revell or Monogram SR-71 and F4 Phantom back in the midish to late 80's. My grandpa wanted modeles of them so bad so I built them for him. 12 yr me tried my hardest to make it as clean and perfect build as I could since grandpa was a perfectionist, he hated any dust or finger prints on anything. 

Testors red tube was my worst enemy but I pulled it off without getting glue everywhere. Only mistake I made was glueing the canopy on the SR71, it hazed like crazy.

Well I have some testors red tube,Tamiya extra thin and a thicker liquid cement in those plastic tubes. I'm getting the hang of them on some test pieces.

  • Member since
    March 2015
  • From: Close to Chicago
Posted by JohnnyK on Saturday, June 11, 2022 3:58 PM

This how I apply the Testors glue in the black bottle/red label. First I spread a bead of the glue. Then I use a toothpick to evenly spread the glue and remove any excess glue. This prevents the glue from oozing out of the joint.  Press the two parts together and hold them together with your fingers for a while. 

Sometimes, a few clamps are necessary.

Your comments and questions are always welcome.

  • Member since
    September 2021
Posted by NervusTwitch on Saturday, June 11, 2022 6:08 PM

Yes, this is exactly they way Ive always used the thick tube stuff when building my cars.

Been working on one of the F16 kits I got and why I never tried the Mr Cement or thin liquid stuff I'll never know but I really like this stuff so far. Im not needing to find creative ways to stop ooze out and such. 

For parts I need to dry fairly quick it works great. Im still using the tube stuff so far but only when I need a bit more work time before it sets up.

  • Member since
    January 2021
  • From: Somewhere near Chicago
Posted by Teenage Modeler on Sunday, June 12, 2022 6:49 PM

I would say that the stuff they're using is Extra Thin cement. These things are less viscous than your average poly cement, and they are made to seep into the small gaps where the joints are, that way they can easily have a good join. Normaly, I try not to do that. I would just add glue on the contact area of the model, that way I wouldn't melt the plastic details.

As for the melting of the plastic details, I wouldn't worry about it too much, since the glue doesn't seem to dissolve that much (from my experience). Unless the join area is near a place filled with many details, then I would refrain from doing that.

This is just my 2 cents. Hope it helps.

Why do I keep changing my signature?? 

 

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Friday, June 17, 2022 9:26 AM

Oh Greg! 

         Don't tell me! You made that mistake too? That is awful when you remove said Tape and Rubber bands and find that track all the way across a wing or car body, ain't it? Makes you want to do a Silent primal Scream, Eh Wot?

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Towson MD
Posted by gregbale on Friday, June 17, 2022 6:13 PM

Tanker-Builder
Makes you want to do a Silent primal Scream, Eh Wot?

Silent??? Bah!

Learned long ago that the modeling room should be heavily soundproofed...or at least warnings issued, if there are tender ears nearby to overhear my...musings. Big Smile

 

Greg

George Lewis:

"Every time you correct me on my grammar I love you a little fewer."
 
  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Friday, June 17, 2022 9:08 PM

hear - hear , greg Big Smile

 

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Saturday, June 18, 2022 11:46 AM

AHA ! Greg:

       I am glad someone else admitted it before Me!

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