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Seperate airbrush forum?

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  • Member since
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  • From: Canada / Czech Republic
Seperate airbrush forum?
Posted by upnorth on Thursday, May 8, 2003 11:30 AM
This is just a thought that struck me as I was going throught the Techniques forum.

It seems to me that a lot of the postings there recently are to do with aspects of airbrushing, largely the "Which one should I purchase and why?" sort of question.

There is , to my mind, enough postings about airbrushes and airbrushing to fairly constitiute a new forum subject, sort of in the same way you separated helicopters out of the Aircraft forum.

When it comes to techniques, I like to see more about working with aftermarket materials like resin and photoetch as they are something of an enigma to those uninitiated in using them.

Traditional brush painting techniques , such as washes and drybrushing certainly have their place in the Techniques forum, but airbrushing can be worlds apart from traditional painting techniques.

Theres obviously enough questions about airbrushing to take the lion's share of an existing forum, perhaps its time to give the airbrush its own space.

Just a thought, hope its a good one.
  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, May 8, 2003 2:01 PM
That's an excellent idea, upnorth. I am poised to enter the world of airbrushing myself and am finding a lot of these postings very informative.

Ray
  • Member since
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  • From: East Bethel, MN
Posted by midnightprowler on Thursday, May 8, 2003 4:10 PM
Good idea. I'm for it.
Lee

Hi, I am Lee, I am a plastiholic.

Co. A, 682 Engineers, Ltchfield, MN, 1980-1986

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 1 Corinthians 15:51-54

Ask me about Speedway Decals

  • Member since
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  • From: Canada / Czech Republic
Posted by upnorth on Friday, May 9, 2003 10:03 AM
Thanks for the backup guys.

I've left quite a few internet forums because no one would streamline the subject matter in them and finding what you wanted became more trouble than it was worth, I'd hate to see that happen here
  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, May 18, 2003 8:39 PM
Is it just me or have there been more airbrush questions showing up on the board lately? It seems to me that there does seem to be enough interest in this specific topic to warrant separating it out on its own.

Just thought I'd bring up the topic again and see if there was any more feedback.

Ray
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Canada / Czech Republic
Posted by upnorth on Monday, May 19, 2003 1:35 PM
Yeah, there is a load more airbrush questions popping up in the "Techniques" forum, what I notice is that they seem to be quickly burying the non airbrush related issues.

ALL techniques are important and should get their fair time before they get relegated to page two or three.

Airbrushing NEEDS its own forum desperately and soon before modelers who have other technique issues start to think their questions take a back seat to airbrushes.

I see the occaisional airbrush question coming up in other forums and plain old technique questions surfacing in other forums as well.

Airbrushing is obviously enough of an enigma to enough modelers that it should have its own spot.

I hope the powers that be will share that sentiment and accomodate another spliting of one forum into two.
  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 8:13 AM
I think there is enough intrest/equipment: Badger, Aztek, Paasche, Richpen, Iwata, etc. (thats just some brushes-not compressors, regulaters, water traps/dessicants,) for a seperate forum.
  • Member since
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Posted by FreedomEagle1953 on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 10:34 AM
GOOD IDEA ! ... Smile [:)]

I agree ... a seperate airbrush forum would be useful. I hope it is something that can be done soon. Wink [;)]

FreedomEagle1953

Chicago, IL area

"keep on building 'em ... but don't glue your fingers together"

  • Member since
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  • From: Canada / Czech Republic
Posted by upnorth on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 12:11 PM
Ah, good! We're gaining a bit of momentum here :-)

Thanks for the support so far, keep the comments coming
  • Member since
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Posted by johnn on Monday, May 26, 2003 4:34 PM
I'm all for it!!

After being away from modeling for about 20 years- questions about these new fangled airbrushes is one of the things that brought me to finescale.com.
  • Member since
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  • From: Lewisburg , Tenn
Posted by fuzzy on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 12:00 AM
Upnorth
Sounds good to me. You've got my vote.
Fuzzy
  • Member since
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  • From: Pominville, NY
Posted by BlackWolf3945 on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 2:14 AM
Absolutely. I say do it.

But then if things happened when I said "do it" there would have been different outcomes to four Superbowl games in the early 90's, no "NO GOAL", Jeremy Brett would still be alive and making more Sherlock Holmes stories, the X-Files wouldn't have sucked in it's last two seasons, Band of Brothers would have 100 episodes instead of 10, Ashley Judd would be single and have no aversion to the idea of marrying a bum from Buffalo, everone would win the lottery, I'd have an original GT-40 in my driveway and a P-40 (first production variant) at my very own personal airstrip in Lancaster, NY.

"Do it". Didn't work again! Grrrrrr....

Fade to Black...
  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 10:18 AM
I agree--an airbrushing forum seems in order. When we started the forums, we decided to begin with a small number of broad topic areas and add new forums based on the most popular specific interest areas. This sure looks like one of them....

I have access to *some* site admin functions, but I don't know if the mythical "they" have given me that much power. I do know Dave does. Wink [;)] While we're at it, we can add that dioramas forum that a number of people have asked for.
  • Member since
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  • From: Canada / Czech Republic
Posted by upnorth on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 11:58 AM
Sounds good, Thanks!
  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 4:34 PM
Excellent!! Thank you very much Lawrence and David.

Ray
  • Member since
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  • From: Pominville, NY
Posted by BlackWolf3945 on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 4:38 PM
YIPPEE!

Fade to Black...
  • Member since
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  • From: Sunny Florida
Posted by renarts on Friday, May 30, 2003 6:12 PM
Hey guys, I like the idea of an airbrush forum.

Any one mind if I play devil's advocate though?

Mike
Mike "Imagination is the dye that colors our lives" Marcus Aurellius A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, May 30, 2003 9:16 PM
Go ahead, Mike. What are ya thinkin??

Ray
  • Member since
    January 2003
Posted by shermanfreak on Friday, May 30, 2003 10:53 PM
I'll throw my 2 cents into this one too.
Instead of just an airbrush forum, why not make it either a paint forum or maybe even a tools forum.
Personally in regards to the dio forum, I'd like to see dios stay in their respective forums.
Happy Modelling and God Bless Robert
  • Member since
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  • From: Sunny Florida
Posted by renarts on Saturday, May 31, 2003 1:03 AM
Thanks,
I wanted to ask first. I will preface this with, it is not my intent to torpedoe the idea nor to start an argument. Just to put forth something for thought. Sort of like a grad student argues his thesis.

The idea of the airbrush forum is seemingly sound one but is there really enough activity to warrant pulling it out of techniques? Though it seems like alot, in the bigger picture it isn't. It, like many other subjects and or threads in the forum, is cyclical. Much of what has been discussed has been repeated and in only a few cases revealed new information.

The activity of discussion along the subject of airbrushing has really been well within the range of a technique and less active than painting. (It is a tool of painting). Just for kicks, I put in a search of airbrushing/airbrush in the topic line and came up with 4 pages of results. Conversely, when I entered Paint/painting I came up with 8. Does specificaly airbrushing warrant that much more attention that it could sustain its own catagory more so than painting?

There is a simplicity to the FSM site now that makes it enjoyable to navigate. It is easy to quickly scan the catagories and to find information. There is sufficient argument for many of topics we have discussed in the past, that under the same criteria you are presenting for the creation of the new topic, to also create one for kits, tools, dioramas, civilian, military, post-WWII, pre-WWII, para-WWII, jet aircraft, propaircraft, kit reviews, etc. This will make for a very confusing site and one that its partcipants will spend an inordinate amount of time waiting for refresh rates and screen loads. I would submit you to Major Ron's web link for Armorama. A very large site chock full of good info and catagories. There are more than a few just for figures alone. While definately enough information to keep everyone happy, and catagories for the die hard specialist, there is little crossreferencing and in some cases it seems overly specific. Meaning that as I scan through FSM I am exposed to several styles of modeling, the result is I was tempted to try an aircraft as a result. When a die hard armor guy like me can try an airplane, think of what it will expose them to and make others want to try. I guess the point I'm trying to make here, is that you unlock Pandora's box and set the stage for something slower, subcatagorized and more complex than it needs to be or is warranted. The K.I.S.S. thereom works.


Dioramas are a visual thing for the most part. THere has been very little photo activity in this forum. Maybe because of the tech to do it or that people just don't care or are self concious (sp?)of their work. The community build project is a great example of this. I thought for sure that because everyone was working on this the idea was to show off their finished projects to make comparisons. This has not been overly successful. Am I wrong? Was that not the intent? Much of the information regarding dio's can be gleaned from the respective catagories, with info specific to its genre and subject matter.

Again, I do not wish to make it sound like I'm against the idea. I will adapt to any changes made in this forum and website and look forward to seeing what you guys have to offer and to help out where I can. But I do want to present another side of the coin so that any or all doubts can be presented and that the site remains an effective one. I apologize for the length of this post and I hope that I have not caused offense by my questions. I also thank you for the ability and respect to express my concerns and questions.

Regards,
Mike
Mike "Imagination is the dye that colors our lives" Marcus Aurellius A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
  • Member since
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Posted by shermanfreak on Saturday, May 31, 2003 2:15 PM
Well put Mike and very valid points.
Happy Modelling and God Bless Robert
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Pominville, NY
Posted by BlackWolf3945 on Saturday, May 31, 2003 3:00 PM
I too agree with the idea of KISS. But though there is relatively little activity regarding airbrushing as compared to the rest, every time I turn around there does seem to be another fella (or in the last case I recall, gal) asking about airbrushes.

Whether it be a question regarding which is the one to buy, how do you use them, how do you get better results or whatever, it's a general topic that has been and continues to be prevelant in the hobby.

There's alotta folks out there who are just plain hesitant to pick up an airbrush simply because they've never used one. It's a perrenial topic in the rag itself, and there's always going to be those who are going to want to know "What's up with airbrushes?".

I see the FSM website and forum as an extension of the rag itself. And I've always considered FSM to be a magazine that caters to all levels of the hobby. Whether you've been building for a couple of decades or have just started, there's usually something in almost every issue for both the veteran and the newb. The website and, more specifically, the forum would do well to continue this tradition.

A separate airbrushing forum would be very useful. It may not recieve the number of hits that the other categories will, (Lookit the Space forum!) but it undoubtedly will make things more simple for the individual who comes to this forum looking specifically for airbrushing tips.

As it stands now, if you want info about airbrushing you have to 1) ask or 2) search the forums. Now, the second option is somewhat impractical because of the sheer number of threads. (Despite the relatively young forum!) Option #1 is the only viable route to take, which is not a bad one. But often times someone may have a problem which they would like to solve NOW. Tongue [:P]

Everyone is different, and not all folks are going to reply to every airbrushing thread. Matter of fact, some (myself included) may become weary of all the airbrushing questions, or questions about this or that or whatever. If I see too much of a subject I will sometimes simply skip it. Not all here are like this, many of the folks here will jump at the opportunity to help everyone and anyone.

But are all of these helper types online all the time? No, they aren't. So I think that it would be a good idea to make a separate airbrushing forum so that folks can come here to look and see if there's already an answer to their question.

Often times, if someone has a problem, they may not even bother to ask for help. If it's not already there for them to read, they may look elsewhere. Some would rather spend time searching the net on their own instead of waiting for a reply. (I sometimes fall under this category myself!)

Once again, given all these variables, I believe the idea of a separate forum for airbrushing is a good one.

And, similarly, a separate diorama forum would be equally useful. There are aspects of diorama making that do not apply to any other part of modeling, and the above arguments are valid as regards this topic, as well.

I DO agree that splitting things up along the lines of eras and pre and post war, or whatever, is NOT a good idea for this forum. Such categorization may be found elswhere. And alotta other forums or sites do not necessarily cater to all skill levels. Matter of fact, some I've run across are downright loathsome to the newb. Sad...

Fade to Black...
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, May 31, 2003 4:18 PM
Some great points here, guys.

I have to agree with blackwolfscd on the airbrush forum. When you consider that airbrushing accounts for 50% of the whole 'painting' genre, I would have to say that would warrant a separate forum. It definitely is a subject that keeps coming around and if people have a separate forum to go to that will quickly answer their questions, instead of searching through several other forums, I think that will definitely be beneficial to all. There may not be a whole lot of activity in it, but just having all that information in one place will make things a lot easier, especially for the 'newbies'.

As for the diorama forum, I would have to go with renarts on this one. I think that keeping the diorama questions in the respective forums would generate some interest and maybe convince more people to start designing dioramas. Kind of along the lines of renarts deciding to build a plane. I think if you separate the dioramas into their own forum that would really relegate it to the 'back of the closet' so to speak. Having the odd question mixed in with the 'regular' forums would generate more interest, IMHO.

Ray
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Sunny Florida
Posted by renarts on Sunday, June 1, 2003 4:07 PM
Well put, Blackwolf.
But, the nature of each catagory has the same pitfalls that you include in your position. Currently those that are interested only in WWII aircraft have to navigate through all of the threads that deal with Modern aircraft. Same can be said for Armor, etc. Much like your opposition to having to navigate through the airbrush threads in the technique forum. I too become weary of "Honk if your Aztek sucks" threads so I avoid it and move on. But after a while I also become weary of witty banter between guys that has nothing to do with the subject at hand that show up as new posts in each thread. While entertaining at times it is one more thing in the way of someone looking for answers to questions. Much the same can be said of the way threads tend to take rather circuitous routes as they develop. It is the nature of this medium. With wheat comes chaff.

The tools to search and to catagorize the threads do make it easy enough to look through topics. There will always be cross threading in the forums and techniques wil come up in each catagory that will help but will never make it to the airbrush forum. By simply using either the word in topic or word in text function, all mentions of the point in question will come up from all threads. This can be further fine tuned with the other search fuctions. Then it is a quick run through to see if there is any helpful info to the individual's question. Just like book research, you glean more info in the read through than if you were looking for a particular point. As you search for why the spatters show up in your airbrush you may come across why it clogs etc. It is the whole book that becomes helpful rather than the chapter.

You yourself had a wonderful thread on painting spinners for your ME's, would you have put that in airbrushing or left it in aircraft where the subject came up and did the most good? Only because I put a search in for ME's did I find it. Along with many other authorative and helpful techniques you impart in the same thread. Something that I would not have done had it remained compartmentalized. As a result I consider you one of the knowledgeable authorities of this site. Conversely when I put in "spinners" the same thing came up, as it did in airbrushing. Again, the book was more valuble than the chapter.

In most cases re: this topic you make very good and sound points and I agree with you but I think in order for this hobby to benefit the most and the educational value of the site to continue, there needs to be some reason to go through the topics and to learn more than the point in question. In other discussion threads it has been stated that the hobby is suffering because there is no patience in youth, and the desire for immediate gratification as well as the right answer for the particular question to come immediately. No time is spent researching or trying to overcome a difficulty encountered. The learning process become point oriented.

Ray,
I would say then that there is more of a warrant for creating a painting forum than specificaly an airbrush forum. And then the two (brush and airbrush) would more logicly fit in there. The comparative discussions would no doubt be very helpful in showing the differences between the two as well as the advantages in each case of the particular tools. This could include finishing, paint brands, paint characteristics, techniques. (?!)

Mike
Mike "Imagination is the dye that colors our lives" Marcus Aurellius A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
  • Member since
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  • From: Canada / Czech Republic
Posted by upnorth on Sunday, June 1, 2003 4:32 PM
Good points all around.

I wouldn't object to a generalized painting forum as opposed to a specific airbrush one, some folks want to figure out the ins and outs of proper spray can painting too.

On the matter of repetition of threads, I think splitting the airbrush or painting in general into its own would reduce repetition, that way people could go straight there and see what's already been asked and perhaps avoid creating a new and perhaps redundant thread for something we've already tackled.

I suppose if the issue is specific enough, for example: "What's the best way to airbrush Eastern Front winter camoflage onto my ME-109?" then It could, and should, end up in the aviation forum as its main focus is a specific aircraft, not the finishing tool itself.

On the other hand, a totally general question like: "How do I apply Future correctly with an airbrush?" or "What are good reference books for airbrushing techniques?" Should have their own spot as they do not gravitate towards a specific model and maintain their focus on the tool and technical aspects of it.

I find repetition a bit tiresome and to go from forum to forum and see repeated threads about how to best apply Future onto whatever is a bit wearying. Future is Future, regardles of what you're spraying or brushing it onto. If we had a seperate forum for painting and finishing, we could tackle all the specifics of Future in a single thread and be done with it and have it in a place that would be easy to find.

I like things streamlined and sometimes you have to rearrange the parts a bit to get the best all around flow of things.
  • Member since
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  • From: Sunny Florida
Posted by renarts on Sunday, June 1, 2003 4:42 PM
I agree, but the repetative threads are the result of people not using the tools of the forum, not subject matter. You'll have the same thing regarding antenae wire, bogies, tracks, snow, f-16's, hobbyshops etc.

Mike
Mike "Imagination is the dye that colors our lives" Marcus Aurellius A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
  • Member since
    January 2003
Posted by shermanfreak on Sunday, June 1, 2003 4:58 PM
Just a quick browse through the forums, and I do mean quick yielded some interesting results. A quick look at the General Modelling Discussion and the Techniques forums yielded the following results.

G.M.D. - 0 posts on airbrushing, 3 posts on painting

Techniques - 2 posts on airbrushing, 11 posts on painting

Now I know that there are times where these numbers will vary but I think it still supports the theory of combining all painting issues (not just airbrushing) into one forum.

I agree with Upnorth's assessment on specialized painting questions that should be entered into their respective forums be it armour, aircraft or whatever.
Happy Modelling and God Bless Robert
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, June 1, 2003 5:24 PM
I could definitely go with a general painting forum that included brush and airbrush techniques, etc. If you look at the whole model-building process there is a lot more time spent on painting than in actual physical construction. So from that perspective there would definitely be a call for a separate painting forum. You'll get no objection from me on that one.

On kind of a side note, regarding the repetition in forums, one idea I have that may alleviate that is...If this volunteer moderator idea gets off the ground, I think it may help if there are one or two (or more) moderators that are kind of 'assigned' to new members and just help 'guide' them around. To most of us forums such as this are 'old hat' but there are a lot of people out there who still are not used to sites like this and maybe don't know how to search or maybe more appropriately, don't always know how to search properly or effectively. If they had someone to 'guide' them around it may cut down on some of that repetition. Just an idea I had kickin around in this empty melon of mine.

Anyway, great discussion. Let's keep the ideas coming.

Ray
  • Member since
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  • From: Sunny Florida
Posted by renarts on Sunday, June 1, 2003 8:38 PM
A guideline of operation or procedures could work very well rather than have to rely on "mentors" to the site. This could be handled as part of the registration process to become a member of the forum.
Facilitated by an automatic e-mail that is a "Guide to the Forum" so to speak. When new members sign up they are sent this introductory guide to the forum and its atributes, guidelines, etiquettes, etc.

Or after registration, they have to pass through a use agreement. Included in this is a set of guidelines. They register, click to this page, then click into the forum after reading. It only has to be an introductory page.

Mike
Mike "Imagination is the dye that colors our lives" Marcus Aurellius A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 4, 2003 1:13 PM
We've done it! Yes, indeed, at last, we have a spanking new, separate "Painting and Airbrushing" forum: http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=18

We've moved some of the recent airbrushing/painting threads from "Techniques" to the new forum, so if you're checking back on a discussion that you've been following, it might have moved there.
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