Unusual Vietnam Hueys

Guys,

  I found this on the 161st website:

What can I say, awesome flying or very good Photoshop work!

   Ray
 

Marko,

  No worries about the name thing.  I have certainly been called worse!  I guess it's about time to put up some pics since this is a modelling forum.  Those M21 Hog pics are great.  Here are a couple of a M16 Hog ship (quad 60's and M200 rocket pods).   This bird is from the 336th AHC.  Note by the way that this is a B model.  I think all of the M21 Hogs were more powerful C models.  If the guns look a little strange, it's because the barrels have been removed.  I don't suppose you have any other pics of this setup?

Ray 

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Reminds me of something from many years ago, when the world was still young. And I was too!!!

You can call me Ray. You can call me Ray J. You can even call me R.J.!! But, you doesn't have to call me Mr. Johnson!!!

Anyway, this IS a very interesting post.

Jon & Ray, Ron & Jay... same stuff. 

Ray, please accept my sincere appologies for the name fluke. It wasn't intentional. No hard feelings?

I do understand what You mean when You say You just pass over the M21 and Hog ships :) Looking forward to seeing Your new pics...

Best wishes,

Marko  

Marko,

  Great pics, as before. I am very impressed with your knowledge of Hueys considering you aren't from these parts. I too have spent hours and hours surfing the web, but must confess I have only recently started looking for unusual Huey stuff.  what occurs to me is that the Unusual in Vietnam is looking more like the norm, but I think that may be because I have my eye out for them and I just pass right over Hog ships and M21 ships these days.  I'll be posting some new pics here pretty soon that i don't think you will find on the web. By the way, while I answer to just about anything, the name's RAY not Ron.  The forum is becoming very international all of a sudden.  reckon we could find a Huey fan in Africa or Anatactica?

     Ray
 

Guys,

I will have to say that you guys have really resurrected the FSM helicopter forum.  Its been pretty dead for a while now but Ray, Andy and now Marko have really made an indelible impression.  You guys rock!  I honestly can't wait to get home every day to see what new stuff has been posted.  This thread is living proof of never saying "it never happened" or "that was never done".  

Marko, yep, I did write the Osprey Cobras in Vietnam book and followed it up with another on the Apache in Afghanistan and Iraq.  Thanks very much for the compliment!  I've taken a break from writing for a bit so I can fly the real thing now.  I do have a few books in pre-planning right now, but nothing concrete just yet.  I'm gonna focus on flying for a bit and see what happens with my civilian career.

Lookin forward to seeing what else we can find!

Jon
 

Marko,

A very big to the forum. You have some great pictures there , i too was born in the wrong place and time to have any direct link to the Vietnam war, but i do my humble best to learn what i can and post what i learn.

This forum (and thread) is great and gets better by the day.

Keep those posts coming

Andy.

Ron, I found the M21 Hog images on the web sites of the aformentioned units and are the result of hundreds of hours of surfing the net and checking thousands of images of Hueys. Intriguingly, there seems to be a pattern concerning the really unusual Vietnam Hueys-usually You will find just one or a couple of images of a particular bird that will, by default, be missing some crucial information (like tail number, or they will show just one side of the bird, etc.)-isn't that frustrating or what!?!... But I guess that's when one's detective and analytical skills come to play, but sometimes it's just pure luck :) As for Your second question-am I a VN vet or a son of a VN vet: that's a double negative Ron. I am too Young to be a VN vet and was born in a wrong part of the world to be a son of one. I live in Slovenia, Europe (where I was also born) and have no ties to the Vietnam war apart from my obvious interest in vietnam-era choppers. So, my only source of VN chopper-related images, manuals, documents, etc. is the ''almighty web'' :)

Jon, I wish You all the best in Your new LZ! Man, it just dawned on me that You wrote the excellent ''US Army AH-1 Cobra Units in Vietnam''. Great book!

 Here are a couple more pics of UH-1Cs with Heavy M21:

First an image of Maverick 33 of the 175th AHC patrolling the Delta in 1968. It carried nose art honoring the french brew that was available across RVN, that is the famous ''Biere 33 Export''. If You look closely, You will notice the flex ammo chute feeding the right-hand minigun. Note that the aircraft is wearing the late-style yellow-tipped tail rotor scheme, but is missing the engine intake filter screen.

Now, this is a very poor resolution image, but both, flex miniguns and 19-shooters are clearly visible in this shot of Cobra VIII, aka. the Liquidator; She was a UH-1C of the 114th AHC gunship platoon at Vinh long in 1967-68 timeframe.

And the last of the M21 Hogs: a left-hand ''Heavy M21'' combo an a Thunderbird UH-1C of the 336th AHC at Soc Trang.

More to come....    

Jon,

  Glad you made it OK.  Too bad you had to leave though.  I will be moving to Auburn in few months, and I plan to take up where you left off at the Museum.  It was great to meet you last month.  I'm really glad I could help get you and Col Rubin together, and at least we got to chat in person before your move.  Best of luck!

     Ray

 LZ is cold, repeat LZ is cold...

Landed here safe and sound last night.  Met with my new neighbor (Chief Snake) briefly and we'll be getting together today.  Just have to finish unloadoing and deal with rent, etc and I should have things pretty squared away.  

If you guys want the Gold Book stuff, PM me your mailing address and I'll burn you a copy of the database disk.  Just a warning, though, there are plenty of errors.  Like as high as 20%.  For example, I've got data on a UH-1D that served with the 121st AHC, have the last 3 of its tail number, but the Goldbook doesn't have it serving with the 121st at all.  There are errors, but still, it is an incredible resource and as Meatloaf says, "two outta three aint bad".  

I may not get to it right away, but I'll make sure you get the disks soon.  Don't worry, Andy, I see ya back there and I'll make sure you get one too!  It helped a lot when I was writing the Cobras book!

Later!

Jon
 

I could give a good home to a copy of those Gold Book files too if you can see me over here at the back of the que

Andy 

Jon,

  I hope you don't land in a hot LZ!  Perhaps you should have sent in a smoke ship first and maybe a couple of Blue Maxx birds to prep the LZ for ya!  All kidding aside, I hope you have a safe trip and get settled in soon.  I would also like those gold book files, by the way, if it isn't too much trouble.

     Thanks,

            Ray
 

Hey guys,

I'm in transit now, but should be at the new LZ by tomorrow evening.  KC, shouldn't be an issue emailing you those files.  Just gimme a little bit to get settled in and I'll get it off to you!

Jon

Marko,

  First, thanks for the pics.  Second, where did you find all those M21 Hog Ships?  I have literally looked through 3-5,000 Vietnam Huey pics and I have never seen a single one!  I was aware that Miniguns were used in the doors of some Hueys, especially VNAF birds, but those are great pics, anyway.  As for the 190th, the unit was only active for a few years and my father has supplied the only pics I have ever seen of them.  I met a doorgunner from the 190th at the 145 CAB reunion last month.  He said he was an amateur photographer and had taken about 1,000 pics while in country, but he was wounded and evacuated.  He never saw his pictures again!  Talk about a major downer.  I am still trying to find other sources of pics of 190th birds, but so far, no luck.  Are you a vet or the son of one like me?  At any rate, keep the great pics coming.  

    Ray

Jon,

Is there any chance of You e-mailing me the Gold Book files? I would realy appreciate it. I can look up some of mine 1/9 photos for a good image of the 1/9 AirCav crossed sabres Huey nose art, if You think it may come handy.

Here's my e-mail:  marko.bajc@yahoo.com

I am glad that You find my info usefull guys; trying to do my best :)

Ron, glad You put some 190th AHC photos on the Vietnam Hueys forum; I don't think there are any elsewhere on the web. Cool!

Marko 

Yeah, 19-shot rocket pods and miniguns were a pretty rare combination, though several units did fly their UH-1Cs with ''Heavy M21'' combo. I saw pictures of M21/M200 combination on birds of the following units: 114th AHC, 135th AHC, 175th AHC, 336th AHC and D troop 3rd Squadron 4th Cavalry. You will notice that most of these units were based in the Delta, where Hueys could lift a lot more than in the Central highlands for example.

 Here's a photo of Taipan 127 ''Miss Judy'' UH-1C 66-15127 of the 135th AHC armed with ''Heavy M21'' at Dong Tam in 1970-71 time frame. This bird was converted to UH-1M standard in theatre, so it is quite possible that it is already in UH-1M standard in this photo.

Here is another photo of a 135th AHC UH-1C/M at Dong Tam with M200 and door mounted minigun. Door mounted minis were quite rare on Army birds.

This is another UH-1C with ''Heavy M21'' in service with D troop 3rd Squadron 4th Cavalry ''Centaurs'' taken in 1968.

 The last photo shows a UH-1B ''Yosemite Sam'' of the 128th AHC in 1969/70 armed with M200s and door mounted minis. Quite a weight for an UH-1B :)

Enjoy the pics guys!

Marko 

Marko,

  Thanks for introducing me to the Virtual Vietnam Archive.  I have already found many awesome pics, but this one really got me excited:

I thought I had seen almost every configuration of standard VN weapons imagineable, but I have NEVER seem an M200 19 shot pod and a M134 minigun on the same ship.  Normally, the M200 pod has a spacer between the pod and the ship to clear the skids.  I guess we can call this configuration a Super Hog!

   Ray
 

Interesting stuff.

Jon, have a safe trip to your new LZ, personnal I think you wife had the right idea.

Marko,

 Fantastic stuff! I'll have to check my 9th cav photos for any other tidbits of info on it. Good tip on the Goldbook too, I've spent so much time looking up individual aircraft that I forgot I could look em up by unit!  Almost all of the 1/9 Photos I have are from C troop in the 69-70 timeframe and are strictly Snakes.

The Vietnam Archives is an incredible resource.  Glad to see its getting increased exposure.  I just found the exact documentation I was looking for two weeks ago on the 1st Combat Aerial TOW Team that allowed me to confirm the identities of the two NUH-1Bs here at the Army Aviation Museum.  I've gotta get back to TTU in the next couple years to finish my degree!

Jon

Thanks for a warm welcome!

Unfortunately I don't have any other photos of the twin 40mm UH-1C. All I know (apart from what You can see in the photos) is what Mr. Chesson, who devised the system told me via e-mail... he does not remember the tail number (tough luck), but I guess one could figure it out by some detective work (that is by checking the U.S. Army Gold Book and looking for the two UH-1Cs that stayed in the unit the longest); or try getting the info from B/1/9 guys at their home page (they unfortunately do not have the list of B/1/9 choppers on their site, I checked :). Mr. Chesson told me that this UH-1C was painted standard OD (my guess is it was repainted in theater as no stencils or decals can be seen, not even the turbine stripe), had top surfaces of elevators painted international orange and bore standard Air-Cav crossed sabres with unit numbers (9 above and 1 below the sabres) in yellow on the nose (You can find the sabres design on any of the 1st of the 9th troops home pages).

As for the HA(L)-3 UH-1B with LLLTV; I found the pics by pure luck on the Vietnam Center's page. Here's the link to their virtual archive search page:

http://www.virtualarchive.vietnam.ttu.edu/starweb/virtual/vva/servlet.starweb

Ray, which unit did Your father serve with? UH-1B with a Honeywell mk18 ''organ grinder'' sounds very much like the HA(L)-3 (though some Army units experimented with this gun too). The Seawolves in fact evaluated several different door mounted grenade launchers for Harrasment & Interdiction missions: the hand-crancked mk18 mod 0, fully automatic blowback operated mk19 mod 0 and the fully automatic mk20; mk18 and mk20 fired the low velocity 40mm rounds (40×46mm), mk19 fired the high velocity 40mm rounds (40×53mm-the same as M75 ''chunker''). I just wish somebody had some pictures of HA(L)-3 birds with these weapons-I found the info on 40mm doorgun tests in HA(L)-3 1970 command history (also available at Vietnam center).

Marko   

KrazyCat,

  Talk about starting off with a bang!  Wow, thanks for the pics!  Also, it's great that you had all the documentation for the units and weapons you posted.  My father told me they used a hand cracked Honeywell MK19 mounted on the sagami mount of one of their UH-1B's.  It's great to see a picture of a similar system.  40MM grenade launchers were mounted on OH-6's in much the same way as the Charlie model you showed, but they weren't mounted on both sides!  Really great stuff!  By the way, where'd you get the HA(L)-3 pics?

   Thanks,

         Ray
 

Ok, firstly, WELCOME TO THE FORUM!

Now you can't post pics of a twin-chunker'd UH-1C and not give us hi-res shots of the nose art, tail number and other markings!!!  That is just waaaaay too cool!

This thread has got me thinking about a decal sheet that is waaaaaaaaaaaay overdue.  Gonna start working on it.

Jon
 

Hello! I am new to FSM forums, though I've been following some threads for some time. I believe there are some of the best huey-oriented forums here! Greta job guys! But enough small talk, cause I got some pretty interesting and unusual Hueys to show :)

First a couple of images of a UH-1C in service with B troop 1st Squadron 9th Cavalry. This is one of the most heavily armed Hueys I've evere seen and the story behind this unique bird goes like this: she was one of the last two UH-1Cs in service with the B/1/9 weapons platoon, the rest were already AH-1Gs. It came to platoon in Hog configuration (two 19-shot rocket pods), but the crewmembers felt that M21 system offered more mission flexibility-howerever they didn't have any M21s in stock, so they resorted to improvisation. They took two M129 40mm grenade launchers (complete with gun cradles and saddles) from AH-1G M28 armament subsystem and bolted them to Huey's M156 mount rings (the fit was perfect), installed rotary 40mm ammo drums (which also doubled as gunner/crewchief seats) in the cabin, replaced 19-shot rocket pods with 7-shot M158s, connected the package to Huey's electric system and voila, the mean 40mm gunship was born. Later they would replace left doorgun M60 with a M2HB .50 cal MG and briefly even experimented with a right door mounted minigun!!! Talk about firepower :) But I shall let the images speak for themselves:

Note the coolie hat kill marks in the last photo...

The next two images show a UH-1B equiped with a LLLTV night vision system in service with HA(L)-3 Seawolves; photos were taken at Nha Be Naval base, Vietnam in 1968. The LLLTV was integrated with the M16 armament subsystem, though the right flex twin M60s were later replaced with a door gun .50 cal. Not much is known about this system as it was tested secretly in 1968. I hope I will learn more about it from HA(L)-3 members.

The last two images were taken from 1969-70 191st AHC yearbook. They show a UH-1H Nighthawk, callsign ''Half breed''. What's really interesting is the weapon mounted in the forward section of right side door. Believe it or not, it's a mk19 mod 0 40mm automatic grenade launcher! It seems that 191st AHC guys did some trading with the brown water Navy units :)

Enjoy the images 

Funny you mention that!  My wife keeps asking why we don't have a Chinook flying our stuff up to MD! 

I've got everything pretty well packed.  The model collection is going in my car, which will be on the trailer behind the truck.  Should be fairly secure in there.  

Now to start working as soon as I get up there so I can afford everything that Chief Snake is going to tempt me with!

Jon

 

Jon,

  Happy trails, man.  I hope the move doesn't destroy your collection.  I have heard some horror stories about moving models.  They're going to miss you around the Museum!  I don't suppose they would let you borrow a Huey to haul all your stuff?

      Ray

Sweet!  Thanks guys! 

I'll post more pics when I get to the new LZ. We're moving out Wednesday morning, so I doubt I'll get more done on her in that time.  The kit isn't terrible.  Actually, the fuselage halves went together pretty well and sanded up very nicely.  It'll need some bondo on the sinkholes on the underside, but other than that, its pretty nice.  One thing it really needs is NOSE WEIGHT, otherwise you'll have a heck of a tail sitter.  Chief Snake advised me to use pennies under the floor.  They work PERFECTLY and there's room enough for four of em.  That should be just enough weight to keep her on her skids.

Now I need to get a couple more of em.  Ray, I like your idea about the D rotorhead.  May have to do that once I get a couple D's!

Jon