Unusual Vietnam Hueys

I noticed the tail rotor was off, but I missed the horizontal stabs.  The stabs wouldn't really take much weight off, though.  It wouldn't make sense to haul a ship full of fuel.  How much fuel does  a B model hold, anyway?  I agree that the area where the cable meets the rotor mast looks odd.  I don't think the pic is fake, though because they have the negatives at the Museum.  I'll have to check the full res image when I get home.  Anyway, it is an interesting pic, I think.  Anybody know the gross weight of a empty Bravo?

      Ray
 

have you ever heard anyone tell you that a Huey could NEVER lift another Huey unless it was totally stripped of equipment.  Well:

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 This photo was taken in November of 1963.  It shows one UH-1B (61-1719) lifting another UH-1B (61-1714).  the rotors of 714 have been removed, but I still see the engine, dash, and based on the obscured crew window what looks like a not so empty cabin.  I have no location info, but this is probaly in the states.  Note the felow studiously observing the operation on his belly in the lift helo.  Also, the two ships look to be different shades of green.  I just thought it was a neat pic that might interest some of you.

    Ray
 

Guys,

I came across a very interresting piece of information while reading the 162nd AHC history: under 1968 part of the history You can find the following paragraph (direct copy/paste):

''In the October-November period the 162nd was chosen to experiment with helmet sights for the XM-21 Minigun system. Sperry Rand sent a technician over to work with the Copperheads on the test of what was called the Viper Sight, or “the Look of Death”. SP5 John Ohmer (armorer) and WO Dennis O’Brien helped install and test the system which electrically/mechanically linked the pilots’ helmets to both miniguns and the M-5 grenade launcher. Wherever the pilot looked, the miniguns would be automatically aimed. It worked well under ideal conditions but the dust, heat and humidity played havoc with the small servos attached to the helmet. The system wasn’t quite ready for field conditions. This was the forerunner of the helmet-mounted sight used in the current day Apache gunship.''

Here's the link to the pdf:

http://www.vhpamuseum.org/companies/162ahc/162ndHistory.pdf

Now, I did some research, but couldn't find much additional info on this Helmet sight system except that it was supposedly also tested on AH-1Gs (some sort of helmet sight system was  also offered as a part of avionics package for Bell 309 King Cobra in 1971). I guess this ''Viper Sight'' was a prototype version of the later M128/M136 Helmet sight system that was used on post-Vietnam Army and USMC Cobras.

Jon, did You come across any info regarding helmet mounted sights on AH-1Gs in Vietnam, while doing research for Your AH-1 units in Vietnam book?

Marko 

Ray,

Glad to see someone finally started posting some HA(L)-3 photos. I've been thinking about doing it myself but You beat me to it :)

For starters, a twin M60 mount on HA(L)-3 Det-5 bird in 71-72; note how they would mount the 60s to eject brass downwards.

For those interested in bulding a scale model of that Det-2 ''The Judge'' UH-1B, here's some info and pics that might help: It was a UH-1B with a C-model tailboom, painted dark OD and carried squadron aircraft number 304 in white on the tail (for most part HA(L)-3 would repaint their Hueys in dark OD and would also paint out army tail numbers) and in smaller charracters on the nose above avionics cover panel; The Judge and 7-shot M158 rocket launcher were mounted on the right side and M21 (M158/minigun) and sagami mounted M60 on the left side. These photos were taken in 1970; the bird was later transferred to Det-8 in 1971.

Note ''Grim Reaper'' art on weapons mount dust cover; this also appeared in Det-2 patch:  

Note ammo box for M60 ammo attached to the Sagami mount: 

Ray, I don't think those 238th AWC M60 mounts were assigned any designation. I believe the 238th devised those mounts and were not standardized (I suppose they were manufactured ''in country'' by the 238th). Similar mounts were used by the 134th AHC gunships.

Marko 

Sorry guys. I just used the heading of the folder the VNAF pics were in.  I assume I identified it incorrectly when I saved the image.  I have looked for the original website with no luck so far.  Trying to keep Vietnam units straight is like learning Japanese (to quote Andy) for me.  I apologize for any confusion.

    Ray
 

Edit: Found it!  The VNAF pics are from the  238 AWC site.  Sorry about that.

While we're on the subject of the 238 AWC, here are acouple of unusual gunship doorgun pics.  The first is a M60D mounted in the door of a UH-1B. Does anyone know the proper designation for this swinging mount?

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The second set is of a couple of UH-1B gunships with an M60A with brass catcher bag attached:

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This ship is a Bravo model with a C model tailboom relacement:

i

It's a typo on someones part. The three you list are the only three AWC's and NO aviation company in that theatre area carried that designation.

Chief Snake 

236th?

The only AeroWeapons Companies in Vietnam were the 235th Delta Devils, 238th Gunrunners and the 361st Pink Panthers.  Was that a typo, or was there a 236th Avn that I'm not picking up on? 

Jon

Ray,

Great pics, thanks for posting, I tried to find that 236 AWC webpage but had no luck, i did find the VNAF website however thanks to you mentioning that it was a Vietnamese Helo, I was going to put up those shots Marko posted today but he beat me to it (Thanks for the links to the ARA shots btw Marko, i havnt had chance to look at the Cav ones yet but il pop up any cool pics i find). I never thought of looking for VNAF pics before your post Ray, so thanks for that. I was hoping that there would be some photos of 190th AHC birds possibly still with there Gladiator markings from when they were handed over to the 233rd Helicopter Squadron, but nope, another dead end.

Anyhoo, its a great site,there's a couple of nice B&W photos of those minigun/rocket 1H's on there also, but il leave them for someone else to put up.

Andy.

  Sweet pics!

Thanks so much!

Andy

Well, I've been following this Thread for awhile, and it's given me great ideas on what I can do with future Huey models. Thanks guys for all the great pics!

BTW, nice 'bird' in one photo, and I also love the full 'moon' shot in the other! 

Andy and Andy, 

So you like door mounted miniguns and rockets, huh.  Well, HA(L)-3 used both and more as standard armamant on their ships.  Here are a few pics of "The Judge,"  a door mounted mini in Detachment 2:

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 Some other minis:

Det-3:

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Det-4:

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Det-6:

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Det-7:

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Det-8:

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Det-9:

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You will notice that the minigun barrels have flash supressors.  This was common in HA(L)-3, but not on Army miniguns.  Well, minis are nice and all, but what about the BIG GUNS?  Here are a few of the better 50 cal shots from the Seawolves (They were used by all 9 detachments along with minis):

Det-2 ship:

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Det-3 ships:

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Det-4 ships:

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Det-5 ships:[img]http://[img]http://

Det-6 ships:

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Det-7 ship:

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 Det-9 ships:

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MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Det-4:

(Det-2)

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And to end this one off with a bang, how about twin 30 cals?!

Det-3

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Det-5 ship:

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Maybe I went a little overboard, huh?  Anyway, enjoy!

  Ray
 

 Holy.......

I wanna build that one!

Thanks a lot for the pics!

Andy

Andy,

Don't worry! I didn't take it personally :) Glad to see those links I e-mailed You helped You find some ARA shots. Anyway, here are a couple more images of VNAF UH-1H gunships. VNAF had their UH-1H gunships armed with the same systems as the USAF UH-1Ns (two 7-shot rocket pods and two M93 door-mounted minigun subsystems).

UH-1H 67-17394, Squadron unknown in 1970 somewhere over the Delta; note that rockets in the 7-shot pods were fitted with 17-pound M229 warheads; 

Another shot of the 67-17394: note the lack of any squadron insignia and that this UH-1 had one rotor blade painted white (which was quite common for late war Hueys):

VNAF gunner getting the feel for the minigun on a training mission (note the USAF instructor behind the gunner):

Marko 

Andy,

Well if you,ve never seen one, I guess I should post another pic of her:

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Both this pic and the one above are from the 236 AWC (actually 238th AWC, thanks Jon and Chief Snake)  web site.  Sorry, no date.

  Ray
 

Ray,

Great shot of the D model! Ive never seen one with door mounted minigun and rocket pods on the same ship, great stuff. Thanks for posting it.

Jon,

Just checked to see if there was any more info to go with that ARA ship, and your spot on, The first picture with the maxwell system was taken in 1968 at LZ Evans, the second shows three ships at the refueling point at Bong son in 1966. I just realised ive put Company and not Battery , a habit i will have to hurry up and break out of.

Marko,

Your posts are great and in future if the techical info included with the pictures boggles my brain (which isnt hard) i will ask , I was probably a bit unfair in my post as when it comes to the history, dates, places, numbers and units i too love my detail. But posts about nuts, bolts and trapezoidally shaped tips, may aswell be written in Japanese . But that just goes to show how much i still need to learn.

Andy.

Jon,

  Sorry, I had a feeling I was wrong about the state!  Dang Yankees, I can't keep 'em straight!  I'm glad things are going well.  Good luck at the archives!

     Ray

Ray,

Maryland, actually!  Its FANTASTIC!  I start my new job on Monday and I'm PSYCHED.  I still have to go out to Arizona in September for the Alpha course but I'll be working in DC and flying from PA once things finally settle in.  Things are just unbelieveable right now, and with great neighbors like Chief Snake, the transition has really been easy.  

 I may actually head over to the National Archives today to do a bit of research!

Jon 

Andy,

  I forgot to mention that is a great pic of the mounting barcket for the big gun on Big Daddy.  I think someone could actually tackle that build now with the other pics as well to go on.

Jon,

  How's New Jersey?

  Ray
 

Andy,

Great ARA pics!  My guess is that those pics were taken in late spring or early summer 1968.  C Battery started getting their Cobras in August and flew mixed formations for a short period of time.  The last Hueys left the unit in December of that year.  

Cool stuff!

Jon 

Marko,

   Thanks for the info. I had read that before, but i didn't know it applied to the specific bird Andy posted. 

          Ray
 

Guys!

In reply to ''information overload'' of my posts: I have to agree with Ray on this one. Im my opinion, in scale modelling details make the difference!!! I mean, don't get me wrong, I respect anyone's personal opinion, but if You're speaking from Your own personal perspective, it doesn't mean it reflects opinions of everybody! In case my posts are too technical or contain information that is (was) not explained enough, You are allways welcome to ask for more detailed description and I'll be more than happy to reply :) I just think we should focus on providing as many interesting photos and detailed descriptions to accompany those images and not waste space on FSM forums for arguing over one's personal approaches to information gathering/providing about our modelling subjects.

Ray,

You are right about the SUU-11/M18-they were identical; Though I believe this was the early SUU-11/A that didn't have selectable rate of fire-it only fired at 6000rpm.

My source on minigun pods on that A/101 Thunderbird:

http://www.a101avn.org/TheHog.htm

Marko 

Andy,

  I admit Marko has posted stuff that is way over my head lately, but that just makes me want to know more about the subject.  Besides, it's good to realize you don't know everything sometimes or, in my case, much of the time!  I guess we're all entitled to our own opinions, after all. Anyway, enough jibber jabber, here's a pic of a VNAF gunship that should make you feel better (I know how much you love those armed D models).  Ray

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Ray,

For those that cant find any use for "cool pictures of naked girls" without the need of info,this thread is without doubt the best place to come .

I ment no offence mate lol,  just saying alot of the info is highly technical and although im all for doing research for yourself, the whole point in the forum is to share information and help fellow modelers of all levels of experience and knowledge, it seems a bit mean to drop terms that only the avionics experts will understand and expect the rest with an interest in hueys or unusual hueys to hit google. Whats the point in coming to a huey modeling forum for help and explanations on hueys when you are directed to google for answers???

Anyway, what do i know, Its a great thread.

Glad you liked the pictures.

Andy 

Andy,

  I hear ya man, but this is the Unusual Huey thread.  If your here thinking your gonna find out how to build a hog ship maybe you need to rethink your choice of intro material!  I guess I am becoming a rivet counter these days, but I really want to get the details right.  I am for supplying the most info possible for any picture you post.  Unit, serial number, weapons system and date help make it a bird you could build.  A cool picture of a naked girl painted on the nose of a Huey with no other info isn't that useful to me!  What I would really like to see is people reading the technical terms, going to Google and entering them, and 90% of the time you get a nice explanation.  It's a little work, but hey, we have worked pretty hard to keep this forum interesting.  If you just want to build a helo out of the box, what would you be doing here, anyway?

I'm done now! Back to your regularly scheduled thread.

   Ray 

 Oh yeah, Great pics, by the way!

Guys,

I am ever impressed with the amount of effort and research and that you guys put into these threads. Though i respect your enthusiasm and knowledge 100%, Personally i have tried to avoid getting into the intricate details for fear of becoming the Huey equivalent of a train spotter (no offence intended to transpotters or any other kind of spotter ) for me the beauty lies within the beast that is the huey. Maybe im speaking out of turn but sometimes it seems that we use this forum to measure our huey knowledge almost in a competative way and forget that its a modeling forum and not a chat room for measuring huey manhood on "who knows the most about widths, lengths, nuts and bolts.

You should all know me well enough by now to know i mean absolutely no offence , all im trying to say is ive been researching the huey for a long time and some of these posts go straight over my head. So to any nubie coming into helo modeling it could be enough to bore or scare them back off to the FSM Armour section and i wouldnt wish that on anyone .

If your going to give armament system designation numbers for a huey try to supply a brief simple explanation of what your talking about and "trapezoidally shaped tips that reduced tip vortexing" are included in that .. (You know who you are) . Not every helicopter modeler is an avionics expert so your knowledge and comments nomatter how clever will be sadly wasted.

Its fantasic that we have access to so much detailed information, but please try not to get carried away and detract any respect from the guys on here whos knowledge, interest, experience, enthusiasm and dedication for the huey go far beyond the nuts and bolts ;)

Lets try to keep things a little more interesting and a little less baffling. You know what i mean guys .

Anyway time for some pictures.

Firstly another couple of shots of hueys with the minigun pod, this time from the 281st AHC, If it helps those that care, the minigun pod in the second shot is confirmed as an air force pod by the guy that took the picture. Also pretty interesting to see a minigun pod mounted with the quad M60 flex guns.

Another photo from the 281st, this time a UH-1C "Wolf Pack" gunship armed with twin door mounted M60s, something you only usually see on slicks.

Next is a couple of colour shots of an ARA gunship armed with the Maxwell system and 18 rockets on each side, similar to the b&w pictures i posted earlier, For the benefit of those that love their detail this is a very early UH-1B from C/CO 2/20th ARA, Bureau Number 64-14054.

Another couple of rare pictures of a 2/20th ARA UH-1B, this time from Alpha Company

Lastly a front on, nose art colour shot for all the lovers of the 116th AHC ship, "Big Daddy" featured earlier on in this thread. Sadly that mean looking gun is missing from the picture.

Andy.