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1/700 Waterline Series Ships

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  • Member since
    June 2021
1/700 Waterline Series Ships
Posted by Upscale on Sunday, June 27, 2021 1:16 AM

Hi everyone,

Currently planning a diorama base for my 1/700 Scharnhorst and was wondering about resin thickness. I have not made a base this larger or ever worked with a waterline style ship. How thick do y'all recommend making the water and do y'all got any recommendations or tips for doing this? 

Thanks in advance, 
Upscale

Tags: 1/700 , diorama , resin , Ship
  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, July 19, 2021 6:36 PM

Sorry, I didn't see this one.

Is the model currently waterline? If not, can you make it that way?.

There are lots of great videos online about ways to do it.

Generally the approach is to start with your base board and paint it a color that looks like deep water (dark blue or black) or shallow water (light green gray or light blue.

Make a thick piece of cardboard that is traced from the footprint of the ship.

Postion it where you want it and thumbtack it down.

At this point I really prefer to work from a photo, if available. Waves and wakes are funny things, and vary a lot. 

Get some acrylic gel medium at Michaels. It comes in several thicknesses, gloss or matte. I start with the thick stuff and paint it on, shaping waves and general surface texture if appropriate.

Then you can add more paint if you want, like whitecaps or wake foam. Put on a little more, it can be the thinner stuff. 

Last, pop out the cardboard and lay your little ship in. stick it down by running a little medium around the place where hull meets water.

Resin is lousy stuff in any quantity  You layer it down 1/8" at a time and really have to work at not getting bubbles. It gets hot as it cures and can warp the model, and it shrinks a little making it look like it's climbing the hull. Expensive too.

Using gel medium over paint is very easy and successful.

Stay clear of silicone sealant as well.

I hope that is helpful.

P.S. don't worry noone responded. " Dioramas" don't get much viewing unless you are modeling a nuclear powered, channeled and chopped, gun turret equipped armored car to haul gold!

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Tuesday, July 20, 2021 10:07 AM

I'll second Bill regarding artist's acrylic gel.  I use it for ocean bases, too.  I use a plastic butter knife to apply the gel.  I sanded the serrations off it.  It's useful to spackle the gel onto the base and then to shape the waves.

I don't paint the base before applying the gel, though.  I just paint the gel once it's set.

I've been using three colors in various mixes:  ultramarine blue and thalo green, for the water, and titanium white for waves.  They're water-based acrylics in tubes from Grumbacher's Academy series, but any brand'll do.  I like using the tube acrylics, because I can use them right out of the tube for water bases, or thin them as necessary.  These are gloss colors, too, so I don't need to apply an additional gloss coat.

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Tuesday, July 20, 2021 5:21 PM

GMorrison
P.S. don't worry noone responded. " Dioramas" don't get much viewing unless you are modeling a nuclear powered, channeled and chopped, gun turret equipped armored car to haul gold!

That sounds like something one of Dr Zaius' minons from the Ape National Assemby would say Smile

The followers of Bakster are Legion, Legion, I say [dons a bowler and a lead-lined purple velvet coat] Smile

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Tuesday, July 20, 2021 5:35 PM

Upscale
How thick do y'all recommend making the water

Resin is only really helpful if there "things" to see under the layer.

Capitol ship anchorages tend to be about 100' or more deep--around 1.71" deep at 1/700.

Which would be deep enough to be able to tell there was no hull under the waterline ship.

So, at least for my 2¢, treat the base, as our wise GMorrison suggests as an opaques surface in a suitable "seawater" color paint.  Then, finish with a clear get coat-like Gel Medium.

A light hand is wanted, though--waves 0.1" tall (a bit more than 2.5mm) are 6' to scale--which is a pretty serious "blow" in an anchorage.

I've used just gloss over "sea color" to give that "transparent at the top" effect; I've also mixed the colors in, too.  Both seem to "work" at 1/700.

There's another strategy out there, which is to use aluminum foil to create the rillpled sea, then paint the "sea color" atop that.  I've seen that produce spectacular results--and the price is hard to beat.

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, July 21, 2021 1:58 PM

OP?

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: East Stroudsburg, PA
Posted by TigerII on Wednesday, July 21, 2021 10:06 PM

CapnMac82

 

 
Upscale
How thick do y'all recommend making the water

 

Resin is only really helpful if there "things" to see under the layer.

Capitol ship anchorages tend to be about 100' or more deep--around 1.71" deep at 1/700.

Which would be deep enough to be able to tell there was no hull under the waterline ship.

So, at least for my 2¢, treat the base, as our wise GMorrison suggests as an opaques surface in a suitable "seawater" color paint.  Then, finish with a clear get coat-like Gel Medium.

A light hand is wanted, though--waves 0.1" tall (a bit more than 2.5mm) are 6' to scale--which is a pretty serious "blow" in an anchorage.

I've used just gloss over "sea color" to give that "transparent at the top" effect; I've also mixed the colors in, too.  Both seem to "work" at 1/700.

There's another strategy out there, which is to use aluminum foil to create the rillpled sea, then paint the "sea color" atop that.  I've seen that produce spectacular results--and the price is hard to beat.

 

 

This is how I do it.

Achtung Panzer! Colonel General Heinz Guderian
  • Member since
    June 2017
Posted by UnwaryPaladin on Thursday, July 22, 2021 10:46 AM

 

 

 

  • Member since
    June 2017
Posted by UnwaryPaladin on Thursday, July 22, 2021 10:46 AM

Good tips! I have a 1/72 seaplane that will go on a sea base, do the techniques suggested above apply for larger scales?

 

 

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Thursday, July 22, 2021 12:36 PM

YES!

 What we did at the museum was to paint the base.Then overlay it with the Colored resin. The little harbor is darker toward the center lighter as you get to the Beach( used to be the entrance for our Seaplanes from their base. ). Near the bridge piers and in the middle it is almost a Mixture of Black and Green.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Thursday, July 22, 2021 3:52 PM

UnwaryPaladin
I have a 1/72 seaplane that will go on a sea base,

Yes.

Sea and float planes want to be on very calm water as a rule. probably no more than about an 1/8"(4mm) of waves.  So, you might want a foam base to "sink" the floats into, then layer up gel medium to do the water.

Now, sea nad float planes are often moored near the shore, so "seeing" the bottom is a potential benefit in a diorama--so this is a case that can argue for resin. But, that will laso involve a lot of prep work, laying out the bottom, setting up piers/docks an the like before pouring the resin.

Note, you want to "open" pour resin, using temporary forms on the not-shoreward edges, so that the resin does not "radius" up a frame.

  • Member since
    June 2017
Posted by UnwaryPaladin on Thursday, July 22, 2021 9:39 PM
Good to know, thanks!

  • Member since
    August 2013
  • From: Michigan
Posted by Straycat1911 on Friday, July 23, 2021 6:05 AM

CapnMac82

 

 
Upscale
How thick do y'all recommend making the water

 

Resin is only really helpful if there "things" to see under the layer.

Capitol ship anchorages tend to be about 100' or more deep--around 1.71" deep at 1/700.

Which would be deep enough to be able to tell there was no hull under the waterline ship.

So, at least for my 2¢, treat the base, as our wise GMorrison suggests as an opaques surface in a suitable "seawater" color paint.  Then, finish with a clear get coat-like Gel Medium.

A light hand is wanted, though--waves 0.1" tall (a bit more than 2.5mm) are 6' to scale--which is a pretty serious "blow" in an anchorage.

I've used just gloss over "sea color" to give that "transparent at the top" effect; I've also mixed the colors in, too.  Both seem to "work" at 1/700.

There's another strategy out there, which is to use aluminum foil to create the rillpled sea, then paint the "sea color" atop that.  I've seen that produce spectacular results--and the price is hard to beat.

 

 

Another idea is to use a piece of a plastic shower door that's opaque and has a wave texture. 

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Friday, July 23, 2021 7:21 AM

Aha!

      I have seeen that and done it as well. Still requires some painting to get close to reality.

     

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Friday, July 23, 2021 3:29 PM

Straycat1911
Another idea is to use a piece of a plastic shower door that's opaque and has a wave texture.

You can get similar translucent sheets at some home centers.

Fiddliy bit is getting a waterline ship (or a float/sea plane for that matter) to "sit" right on the texture.

As our estimable Tanker points out, painting can be cruicial.  I like painting from underneath the translucent material, and adding bits of more matte medium and pain to the top in random spots, to give a "thickness" to the water.

Tricky part is that, once you start building up wakes and the ike, you are enough "above" the textured surface to nearly need to texture it all (this can be a pain).

  • Member since
    August 2020
  • From: Lakes Entrance, Victoria, Australia.
Posted by Dodgy on Sunday, July 25, 2021 1:53 AM

An interesting and informative thread. I've only ever done one ocean scene before and that was with plaster back in the 8o's. I was pleased with the result, but don't know how it would stand up today.

I long to live in a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned

  • Member since
    June 2021
Posted by rocketman2000 on Thursday, August 12, 2021 9:11 AM

Straycat1911

 

 
CapnMac82

 

 
Upscale
How thick do y'all recommend making the water

 

Resin is only really helpful if there "things" to see under the layer.

Capitol ship anchorages tend to be about 100' or more deep--around 1.71" deep at 1/700.

Which would be deep enough to be able to tell there was no hull under the waterline ship.

So, at least for my 2¢, treat the base, as our wise GMorrison suggests as an opaques surface in a suitable "seawater" color paint.  Then, finish with a clear get coat-like Gel Medium.

A light hand is wanted, though--waves 0.1" tall (a bit more than 2.5mm) are 6' to scale--which is a pretty serious "blow" in an anchorage.

I've used just gloss over "sea color" to give that "transparent at the top" effect; I've also mixed the colors in, too.  Both seem to "work" at 1/700.

There's another strategy out there, which is to use aluminum foil to create the rillpled sea, then paint the "sea color" atop that.  I've seen that produce spectacular results--and the price is hard to beat.

 

 

 

 

Another idea is to use a piece of a plastic shower door that's opaque and has a wave texture. 

 

There are plastic panels used for those hanging ceiling light fixtures.  I have used those- bought a whole sheet and still have a lot left for for more ships.

For 600 or 700th scale I sometimes paint the base and them put down a couple of coats by brush of polyurethane varnish.  I try to align brush strokes to simulate wave fronts.  On two more coats I build up along waves with a small brush.  Works fine- in that scale you do not need a whole lot of depth for a reasonable sea state.  I then do bow and stern wakes with acrylic gel medium.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, August 12, 2021 9:24 AM

Well, the OP is nowhere to be seen or heard of.

 

Not even a thank you.

 

That's irritating.

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Thursday, August 12, 2021 10:43 AM

CapnMac82

 

 
GMorrison
P.S. don't worry noone responded. " Dioramas" don't get much viewing unless you are modeling a nuclear powered, channeled and chopped, gun turret equipped armored car to haul gold!

 

That sounds like something one of Dr Zaius' minons from the Ape National Assemby would say Smile

The followers of Bakster are Legion, Legion, I say [dons a bowler and a lead-lined purple velvet coat] Smile

 

And somehow I must missed this too. Must have been busy with what GM said. Lol.

Capn, that is a hoot. Thanks! I think I will print and frame that, then hang it over my Bullion bench.

It is unfortunate the OP has not come back but then it was near a month before their post was noticed. I normally try to bump new posts like this so that it doesnt get lost in the Bullion banter. But I never saw it. Of course it doesn't help when I still dont get emails when people respond.

It is I unfortunate. 

 

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Thursday, August 12, 2021 11:22 AM

Upscale, here is an article from ship modeler and FSM contributor Chris Flodberg, on his technique for sculpting sea bases.  You might find this useful:

https://finescale.com/issues/2016/april-2016

 

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

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