Metal masters GB 2016 (1Feb to 31 July)

Nothing major, but I did want to show the beginning of what is shaping up around the camera bay. Referenced photos of the F-6D and measured twice, cut once, and sanded a lot. I may still refine the thickness of the larger bay. There will be a larger rounder sleeve that acted as some type of cover/fairing. That'll come next. Then, I'll build up the interior of the camera bay since it'll be more visible. =]

camports by Britt Vallot, on Flickr

Untitled by Britt Vallot, on Flickr

Untitled by Britt Vallot, on Flickr

Just sat down last night for the first time in a couple of weeks to reaquaint myself with where I'm at with this conversion. I need to sand down the sidewalls of the TD cockpit set and thin the kit parts so as to keep everything snug. Then, I'll have to do some doctoring around the back end/left side where the camera was mounted before I can close any of this up. It shouldn't be too difficult, but naturally I'll make it harder. =D Soooooon...

O!? How's that shark mouth coming along?

Nice to see the before and after primer shots. What color will be going on the wingtip tanks?

Good looking "Tweet"...almost looks faster in NMF ;-)

Theuns

Got tied up with a bunch of things but here is the progress on the A-37.

Looks like it. =] If you'd like the Aluminum to have a bit more shine behind it...do it in light coats.  Allowing some of that gloss black to come through just enough will help it glow. ;)

Nicely done Larry.

Looks good from here :-)

Theuns

I think I have a winner. In this shot, the main color on the wing is Model Masters German Metallic Silver. I sprayed Alclad Airframe Aluminum on the aileron and Alclad Aluminum on the flap. It doesn’t show up so well in this photo, but the Airframe Aluminum really contrasts far too much with the German Metallic Silver. However, I think the contrast between the Alclad Aluminum and the German Metallic Silver looks about right. Plus, the Silver looks like paint while the Aluminum looks a bit like bare metal. So, I think I’ll go with Alclad Aluminum on the fuselage and German Metallic Silver on the wings.

What do you all think?

- Larry

lzdaily@comcast.net

It's too shiny, though, for anything other than a plane right off the assembly line, so I'll probably use it to paint my 1/48 Apollo capsule.

 

- Larry

 

Now I'd like to see that. =] I started one back years ago before I knew what I was doing with glues and such and ended up destroying the gold plastic the kit came with. I settled for a rematch down the road when my skillset was better suited.  That day is coming...just as soon as I get some of these others planes off my bench. 

I agree that the contrast between the gun bay doors and the wings is too great when I used Airframe Aluminum. I used it on those tests for two reasons: 1) I've seen in a few places that the gun bay doors weren't painted like the rest of the wing and 2) a lot of people use Airframe Aluminum on the fuselage and I wanted to see what it looked like next to the colors that I was considering for the wings. It's too shiny, though, for anything other than a plane right off the assembly line, so I'll probably use it to paint my 1/48 Apollo capsule.

I'm in the middle of another test. I'll post pics when I get it done. I've got high hopes for the colors I'm trying this time.

- Larry

bvallot

Theuns makes a good point about the doors.  They ordinarily would weather at the same rate.

I would think they would look a little more weathered as they were handled more.

lzdaily@comcast.net

OK, so here's the result of my latest test. The two wings still attached to the sprue are the old ones. The one on the left is painted with Duraluminum with Airframe Aluminum on the gun bay. The one on the right is Semi Matte Aluminum and Airframe Aluminum. The wing on the far right is the new one. I used Alclad Black Primer with Semi Matte Aluminum and Aluminum on the gun bay covers and aileron. The contrast between the two is about what I’m looking for, but the more that I look at the Semi Matte Aluminum, the less I like it. I think it would require a gloss primer for decals, but then what’s the point of the Semi Matte finish?

Larry

 

Theuns makes a good point about the doors.  They ordinarily would weather at the same rate. No need to make such a stark difference about them. You did bring up one good item that's worth mentioning. One of the things about painting in flat paints (acrylics specificially) is how the pigment lays down unevenly. We're in the habit of putting down a gloss layer on top of this so as to even out the surface and make it ready to accept decal film. But for Alclad paints this should already be the case. There's so much prep work that typically goes into the surface to make it polished and pristine that the surface is already going to accept decals. There's no need for a gloss coat to meet this end. Alclad paint is a laquer base that bites and bonds with the plastic. It lays down super flat. That's why so much is visible when you didn't prep well enough. There is no build up of a layer of paint on the surface.  So...even though I haven't personally used the Semi-Matte paint in broad surfaces where decaling is present...it shouldn't have any problems holding onto them. But as always, test it out before hand. Since you already have a wing ready to go...place a couple of different decals you won't be needing and see how they do. =]

This is the perfect time to try it! =P

I think the semi matt ally is to "flat"

You will also see how the contrast differs by viewing it from different angles.

If you want a weathered look, I think straight alclad aluminium might wirk for you. The tone difference in some pannels can be achieved by varieng the amount of coats you put on.

The wings you have on the left (in my humble opinion) has to much of a shine level difference between the cun bays and the rest.

The Alclad sheet they would have used would not go dull with weathering on one pannel and be allot more shiny on the other....they fade pretty much the same level. Unless you say they are replacement pannels :-)

The area you would get such a shine difference on the mustprang is the pannel the surrounds the exhaust stacks, that was stainless steel and would remain shiny VS the allu next to it.

Ah the wonderfull world of NMF  ...where are the days a simple silver paint would do LOL.

Just as a matter of interest, when you want to do a pollished plane, there are very few pannels that look different in tone, they all look pretty much the same. We have a pollished T-6 in the hanger I work and this shows it well.

Theuns

OK, so here's the result of my latest test. The two wings still attached to the sprue are the old ones. The one on the left is painted with Duraluminum with Airframe Aluminum on the gun bay. The one on the right is Semi Matte Aluminum and Airframe Aluminum. The wing on the far right is the new one. I used Alclad Black Primer with Semi Matte Aluminum and Aluminum on the gun bay covers and aileron. The contrast between the two is about what I’m looking for, but the more that I look at the Semi Matte Aluminum, the less I like it. I think it would require a gloss primer for decals, but then what’s the point of the Semi Matte finish?

Larry

Absolutely post what you come up with. It helps us all. =]  One thing I would point out is to set up your tests like a grid. That way you can make more use of the space you have.  For instance, if you're using only the Gloss Black primer, just have vertical strips of the colors you're looking test. And if you're looking to see what a Semi-matte looks like next to an Airframe Aluminum...make one strip Semi-matte, the middle where it will over lap, and lastly the Airframe Aluminum. Just a thought to help your brainstorming.

Britt,

Thanks for the photos and the information. One more data point to think about.

I did another test wing. I continued with the Alclad Black Primer and used Semi Matte Aluminum for most of the wing and Alclad Aluminum on the gun bay and aileron. Not sure I really like it, but could post the photo if anyone wants to see it. I have one more test that I want to do (And one more spare wing to try it on. After that I'll have to break out the paint stripper to try more tests.) Some responded that Floquil's Old Silver was a good match for the paint used on the Mustang wings. I found a paint chart that suggests the Model Masters German Silver Metallic is a good match for Old Silver. I just happen to have a bottle of German Silver Metallic, so I plan to try that with Airframe Aluminum on the gun bay and aileron. If that looks right to me, I'll go that way. Otherwise I think I'll stick with Airframe Aluminum on the fuselage and Duraluminum on the wings. I want to finish this thing up before  the group build ends.

Larry

Hey Larry. Sorry I couldn't reply over the weekend.  I still don't have the internet at my new home and for some reason I can't log in with my iphone.  It did occur to me though that I do have some pictures that may help you along the way if you plan on using the Gloss Black primer as your base to paint from.  I'm always looking to improve what I do and how I approach it, so I'm thinking along different lines than someone doing it for the first time...that's why it took me till now to realize it.

Anyhow. I have some (poorly taken) pics of the first NMF I did from a few years ago. You'll get the idea though.  Some of this might look more complicated to see, but I promise it's not.  First, I lightly put on the Duraluminum over the wings in a front to back fashion. I think the Duraluminum works just fine the way it is for the wings (if you're looking to make it easy on yourself the first time around). What I was aiming for here is allowing some of the darker surface underneath to show variation in the metal wrapping over internal structures.  My way of trying to "pre-weather" to do more with less.  So light coats and more light coats until I was happy with the outcome...it took some playing with.  For the ammo/gun bays, I masked off each and painted them individually with a Magnesium on top of the Duraluminum.  This was done very lightly also and I was only looking to make them stand out slightly more from the wing surface.  Many of the reference pics I was looking at back then didn't show much difference for the most part.  I was trying to reflect that.

image by Britt Vallot, on Flickr

image by Britt Vallot, on Flickr

The other thing I did was to rivet the entire plane before I began.  After sanding, polishing, and priming/painting, I slightly buffed certain parts along the fuselage and inboard parts of the wings to bring this out a little more. I used a fine sanding stick from Squadron to do it. It may have even been a very fine stick. If you decided to do something like that, test it out...use your judgement.  I like it though. It works great to show some real wear and tear around heavily maintenanced/trafficked parts like the cowl and wing root and fuselage.

You can make it out above if you look around the fuselage.  Here are some other pics. Sorry, these are very dark.

image by Britt Vallot, on Flickr

image by Britt Vallot, on Flickr

image by Britt Vallot, on Flickr

That should kind of give you the idea of what I'm getting at. If you want to browse through that WIP to take your time with it:

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/2/t/155345.aspx 

I think it was the second one I ever did so don't laugh. The pictures are terrible.

So hopefully that provides some building blocks to get you thinking. If something I said doesn't make sense, just ask. I was having to rush through some of this. =]

The look you got on the right wing is that of a more weathered plane, the real alclad sheets would go a little "grey-ish" and dull.

The left wing is of a more new wing that has not weathered as much.

For my money I would go wuth the left slightly shinier wing. I would also get your base colours with ne shade of allu then mask off a few pannels and shoot another coat or 2, this will give nice tone difference without being to heavy.

After all is on I do a pannel line wash with acrylic ink. this makes the detail "pop" nicely.

I always seal my alclads with alclad clear , not the aqua gloss the other stuff.

Theuns

As I've stated previously, I’ve never done a natural metal finish before, so I’m trying to take my time and explore all my options.  None of the color photos that I have of the prototype clearly show the surface of the wings, especially in a shot that would allow a comparison with the natural metal fuselage. In the black and white photos, I don't see a big difference between the wings and the fuselage. To try and decide what colors to use, I took a spare pair of wings and shot them with Alclad Black Primer. The one on the left was then finished with Alclad’s Duraluminum. I applied Airframe Aluminum (the most popular choice for the fuselage) over the black primer on the gun bay cover and Airframe Aluminum over the Duraluminum on the ammo bay cover. On the right wing, I applied Semi Matte Aluminum over the black primer (now that it’s really dry it’s really obvious that I needed at least one more pass for complete coverage) with Airframe Aluminum over black on the gun bay covers and Airframe Aluminum over the Semi Matte Aluminum on the ammo bay cover. I have to admit, I’m still unsure how to paint the wings. I am sure, though, that I need to do much more surface prep on the model before I spray it with Airframe Aluminum. Any thoughts or oopinions much appreciated.

- Larry

Great work Brabdon!

Britt,

I understand. You've inspired me to try some tests of my own, though. I've got enough leftover bits of Mustangs around here, so tonight I sprayed some Alclad Black Primer on a couple of wings. After they're good and dry (Sunday, most likely) I plan to try duraluminum on one and semi matte aluminum on the other. I'll post the results.

Larry

A nice pair of 'Stangs" you have there.

What I like about these GB's is that ideas are exchanged and we can all learn somthing new.

Theuns

Interesting Brandon. It's like they say..."there's more than one way...."

Larry, I most certainly can, but it's going to be a little while.  I'm moved into my new home but I do not have my new work bench up and running yet.  I hope you're not in a rush. =]

bvallot

Brandon, did you paint those colors down before the Alclad?

Yes Sir, I did. All colors were down, then the black, then alclad, then aqua gloss, then alclad again. I still have to hit the ammo panels with another color alclad; I'll do that tomorrow. I've had such bad luck taping alclad I thought I better mask the colors instead. We'll see how that goes.

BK

I went ahead and painted those panels today and untaped the plane. All that I need to do now is paint the fuel caps and get ready for decals.

BK

Britt,

I don't know about anyone else, but I'd really like to see the results of your test. I've still got some prep work to do when my order of Mr. Surfacer gets here, but I've got to put paint on this thing sooner or later.

Larry

Brandon, did you paint those colors down before the Alclad?

Larry, interesting you bring that up.  I'm about to test a couple things out...the semi-matte being one of them.  I'm going to set up a grid where I test out four primers in one direction and paints going perpendicullarly across them. I can post what I get if you'd like.  I was mostly concerned with how much shine I get from different ways of manipulating the gloss black. 

In the past, I've used Duraluminum for the wings and was pretty happy with it. I think using it over a grey primer would work better. The Semi-Matte might have similar results.  It will appear markedly flatter than the rest of the Alclad line. 

Brandon, Britt,

Thanks for the information. Very helpful. I'm searching for prototype photos of WEaver's plane (have only found one so far). I'm waiting for an order of Mr Surfacer and some Alclad Semi Matte Aluminum to show up. One site I found, the guy used semi matte aluminum on the wings. Thoughts?

Larry

Well, my Mustang now is primed, sanded and has the colors down. I need to mask the nose and quick sand it one more time then a coat of black Tamiya paint followed by a sanding on select panels and Alclad polished alum to top it off.

I painted the drop tanks with Mr color Metal Aluminum, which is a buffable paint, and I buffed and cleared the tanks. They look alright but not quite what I was hoping for so back to alclad. . Perhaps my base coats will make a difference for me this time. Fingers crossed. So far so good.

BK

Before and after polishing.

lzdaily@comcast.net

All,

I'd like to draw on the collective wisdom of the group, if that's OK. I'm getting close to painting my D, which will be my first NMF. I know that the Mustang fuselage was unpainted. I have several "colors" of Alclad: aluminum, airframe aluminum, and duraluminum. What do you all prefer? I also know that Mustang wings were puttied and painted silver. What color silver do people prefer to replicate the paint used?

Suggestions most appreciated.

Larry

 

Sorry if I'm a little late with this reply.  Brandon is right about the putty so check your dates.  It's still a bit of a user preference. Now, I'm not a mustang expert but I do have some references that I've gathered over time.  I've seen a better example of a chart that laid down more specifics with regards to the wings, but this one will give you an idea of how to proceed.

MustangWingFinish by Britt Vallot, on Flickr

The lighter blue areas are puttied and painted a silver color as I understand it and the darker areas are left in NMF such as the landing gear, flaps, ailerons, etc. Here's an example:

P_51D_Puttied_Wing by Britt Vallot, on Flickr

The base color/primer will determine how much shine is present behind your Alclad. A gloss black will will add a considerable shine to any Alclad paint...some like the Airframe Aluminum will even require it to look as it should.  If you are looking to represent your mustang in the warbeaten, weathered look as many of them had out in the PTO, then I would recommend using a grey primer for most of your surface. Keep in mind, there's no rule saying you can't put a gloss black down where certain parts were replaced and would carry more luster.  I have a photo I'm using to reference in painting Shomo's F-6D where the vertical stablizer appears to be newer while the rest of the plane is beat to hell.  

8092025093_f6ca80e170_b by Britt Vallot, on Flickr

So virtually all of the plane will receive Alclad's Grey Primer but the tail will get the Gloss Black. =]  Little things like that will add to your build's interest and believablity. Just don't be in a rush.  It's easier to change your plan than to change your plane. =P 

I hope that helps lay some ground work for your decision making.  If you have other questions, just ask.  There's plenty of help around.

Larry,

I used Airframe Aluminum on the Sabre I built for this build (the panel shading is just fewer layers of Airframe Aluminum over a black base coat), and for the Mustangs I've built, I used Airframe Aluminum for the fuselage and Duraluminum for the wings. I would probably go a little different on the wings in the future, and I've heard decanted Tamiya AS-12 Bare Metal Silver spray can is a great match, as it is shiny, but not too much.

Here are my Mustangs (the blue nose has Polished Silver on the panel with the radio mast. I wouldn't do that again, FWIW. The gun bay covers are Airframe Aluminum, so you get an idea of the contrast. For that one, I sprayed it all over Alclad Aqua Gloss with no other undercoat/primer.):

Hope that helps, and I can't wait to see it.

Both have been clear coated with Alclad Aqua Gloss before and after decals. Same with the Sabre.

-BD-