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Rye Field Models Panther G

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  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Friday, March 8, 2019 7:56 PM

Just got a Takom Panther and the details are mind blowing!

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Friday, March 8, 2019 6:27 PM

Ohhhhhhhh, looks cool!

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    November 2004
Posted by snapdragonxxx on Friday, March 8, 2019 5:20 PM

Just Ordered this today

 

I am going to replace the origial kit and probably get the Jagdpanther G2 too.

I'm not sure about the group build format on here. Perhaps someone would like to take the lead on that?

There are a number of panther kits I wouldn't mind building, espacially Takoms Flakpanthers!

Aber have released a metal barrel for the RFM kits

http://www.aber.net.pl/detal,1481.html

  • Member since
    August 2012
  • From: Parker City, IN.
Posted by Rambo on Tuesday, March 5, 2019 8:03 AM
Got a lot of Panthers to choose from now, if you decide to host a GB I'll be in.

Clint

  • Member since
    November 2004
Posted by snapdragonxxx on Tuesday, March 5, 2019 7:17 AM

I haven't actually got any further with this and looking at it there has been some damage which cannot be repaired and parts have gone missing.

Also there has been some AM stuff released which I would like to add and so after some thought I will be actually scrapping this and getting another of these kits and starting again with a more intensive build log. There is nothing wrong with this kit at all. It is a fine example and i also want to get their cutaway panther as well as their Jagdpanther with interior.

I did lose my way a bit with this kit too and the experience gained is not lost! 

Sorry for this, I would rather start again than do a half-assed finishing job!

Maybe a Panther Group build for 2020?

  • Member since
    August 2012
  • From: Parker City, IN.
Posted by Rambo on Monday, March 4, 2019 9:35 PM
James have you got any more progress to show on this build? I would love to see this completed.

Clint

  • Member since
    November 2013
Posted by Davja on Saturday, September 22, 2018 8:02 PM

Harold,

I'm following James's progress as well.  Having seen this thread, I had to buy this kit myself.  I won't be starting on it for awhile though, have too many kits in various states of completion or lack thereof in the que ahead of this.  Plus I need to find my painting touch, because I can't remember where I left it last.

Jim

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Saturday, September 22, 2018 7:57 PM

James, I have nowhere near your level of experience in armor model building, or real armor for that matter. However, I do have experience as a building designer displaying models. I started years ago before the days of computer aided drafting to illustrate the interior of a building model made with balsa wood framing and white thin cardboard sheathing. Clients often asked can you build a model with a transparent roof, or side so we can see what the interior looks like with the roof and sides in place. The solution was semi-clear plastic instead of thin cardboard. With my experience as a framing carpenter I could construct a model building with accurate scale balsa framing and the semi-clear plastic was just opaque enough to see through without loosing sight of the overall out side appearance.

 

In my opinion what you have embarked on is the same concept architects use that allow the interior detail to be seen without losing the effect of the exterior shape and finishes. I will be following your progress with great interest.

 

Harold

 

  • Member since
    November 2004
Posted by snapdragonxxx on Friday, September 21, 2018 3:46 PM

I have been working steadilly and slowly on the Panther with not much to show, but it will all come together and there will be a sudden change.

At this moment, I am having to push this to one side.

Hong Kong Models have asked me to build their two stage mossie and their new Do335 B6 night fighter for the IPMS Telford show - Scale Model World.

THis has thrown out my timetable I had in my brain. I wanted to finish the Panther and then build ZM's Shinden, which I am all tooled up to do!

To give me the time I need (the mossie is pretty much an OOB build with HGW seatbelts and the Do335 is a super build and I am going to add a twist to that beast for the display table!) I have to push the Panther to one side and work on it when I can until I am ready for Telford.

I will put the builds up here so you can see everything!

 

 

James

 

Preparing for some very late nights!

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Monday, August 27, 2018 7:03 AM

Wow, she's looking awesome! Yes

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    August 2012
  • From: Parker City, IN.
Posted by Rambo on Sunday, August 26, 2018 9:48 PM
That looks great I really like how you masked off the clear parts.

Clint

  • Member since
    November 2004
Posted by snapdragonxxx on Sunday, August 26, 2018 4:09 PM

No problems over the paint. Remember to make sure that you get the full colour depth when you use it.

 

Time for an update.

There has been much painting and building going on and there's still much to do. This RFM kit is like rebuilding the real thing.

I have been working on the upper and lower hull. The turret still needs some parts putting in.

A brand new RAL 6003 base coat will be put over the upper hull and turret covering any previous camo attempts.

Parts installed in the inside of the upper hull and lowe hull for the driver and readio operator.

Some other parts fitted to the lower structure too

dry fit of some upper hull supports and storage

Stencilling put on where needed. A mix of kit and Archer dry transfers

 

Fresh paint put on the tank

Also dry fit of exhaust

Turret base (basket not added yet)

Camouflage painted on following original vehicle pattern.

Removal of making tape. The vehicle is nowhere near finished yet.

Dry fit of spare track links. I al using the kit plastic ones as the etched brackets I don't think will support the weight of the metal friul ones.

There is still all the equipment to add on the exterior and I am waiting for Eureka XXL towing and track wire to arrive.

I may leave a set of spare links off the left side so the fuel tank can be seen.

This kit hasn't got any side skirts included and really it is the only thing I can mark the kit down on. I think I will add Abers' set as it should fit the brackets which are included in the kit!

I have also to obtain Friuls tracks but that's the last thing to go on.

I was going to obtain a full load of ammunition from Eureka XXL, but The owner hasn't responded to my emails. I don't really want to use the kit ammunition as it isn't quite right and detailed enough so I will build and insert and ammo stowage empty, but the upper gull will remain unglued so I can add some at a later date.

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2013
Posted by Davja on Saturday, August 18, 2018 7:23 PM

Thank you for the paint list for that Panther.  I happen to have a Hobbytown that actually has a large Vallejo selection.  

 

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Thursday, August 16, 2018 3:34 PM

Interesting comparisons. It’s an ongoing discussion of what colors were used on the early aircraft. 

 

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Thursday, August 16, 2018 12:22 PM

Thanks James, as long as you don't mind. 

Interesting contrast there, when I get around to an early Zero I'll take that in consideration. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    November 2004
Posted by snapdragonxxx on Thursday, August 16, 2018 11:01 AM

In actual fact, it's quite a welcome diversion. Everyone needs to take a break during a kit that is detail intensive. I don't work quickly and it's a welcome diversion towards a future build!

In actual fact, my next build will be Zoukei Muras very first release, their Shinden!

As I said, there is lots of confusion about that colour....

Going from left to right:

Vallejo "Ash Grey" VMA 71.311 (Chipset correct)

AK J3 Hai-Iro (Grey) AK2061 (Scale corrected)

AK J3 Sp (Amber Grey) AK 2062 (scale corrected)

Photographed in natural daylight with no lens filters.

On a trip to Japan several years ago I was able to look at an existing WWII Chipset and the Vallejo colour is correct. They may call it Ash Grey (sometimes their colour labelling leavs much to be desired!) but it is the one I would use on the Tamiya Pearl Harbout Zero.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Thursday, August 16, 2018 7:00 AM

Thanks PJ, yeah I've seen the Ameiro too, there's some confusion between it the ash grey James listed and a willow grey. There's a great article on J-Aircraft on the subject.

http://www.j-aircraft.com/research/amerio/out_of_ameiro.htm

 

Anyway we probably should get back to James' Panther. Sorry friend for taking us so far off subject here... Embarrassed

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    November 2004
Posted by snapdragonxxx on Wednesday, August 15, 2018 5:48 PM

http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/en_US/imperial-japanese-navy-(ijn)-colors/family/17/208

I have this somewhere in one of my paint boxes. I'll do a chip and sacrifice a plastic spoon to the paint gods!

I think I also have AK's version too!

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Wednesday, August 15, 2018 4:59 PM

snapdragonxxx

There is lots of confusion about early war zero aircraft and their colour but I am putting pennies away to get tamiyas 1/32 zero (which I think is the best out there for this aircraft) and do it in Pearl Harbour colour... and it will be right!

Now the thing is, they were all brand new aircraft and painted in an "Ash Grey" colour. this actually has a greenish tint to it. This is the colour that would have been seen over Pearl Harbour, but the light on that day actually made the colour of that aircraft look much paler than it was. The shade used is a mimetic colour and changing light changes the shade.

When exposed to the sea air there was a chemical change to the paint work and some became a chalky white. This is what confuses people.

You want the Ash Grey?

Vallejo 71.311 is a match to the IJN chipset.

AK Q1 (see previous post) is a match for the cowling and the chipset (unusual for AK to get it spot on!)

Lifecolor Aotake UA-136 is the best copy of Aotake I have ever seen and when put on looks the business!

 

The color is actually called Ameiro, otherwise known as Nakajima Amber Grey. The paint is made by Colourcoats ACJ17. 

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Wednesday, August 15, 2018 2:17 PM

snapdragonxxx

There is lots of confusion about early war zero aircraft and their colour but I am putting pennies away to get tamiyas 1/32 zero (which I think is the best out there for this aircraft) and do it in Pearl Harbour colour... and it will be right!

Now the thing is, they were all brand new aircraft and painted in an "Ash Grey" colour. this actually has a greenish tint to it. This is the colour that would have been seen over Pearl Harbour, but the light on that day actually made the colour of that aircraft look much paler than it was. The shade used is a mimetic colour and changing light changes the shade.

When exposed to the sea air there was a chemical change to the paint work and some became a chalky white. This is what confuses people.

You want the Ash Grey?

Vallejo 71.311 is a match to the IJN chipset.

AK Q1 (see previous post) is a match for the cowling and the chipset (unusual for AK to get it spot on!)

Lifecolor Aotake UA-136 is the best copy of Aotake I have ever seen and when put on looks the business!

 

Thanks! I've read a couple of articles on the subject but since I've been building mostly late war IJN aircraft I've never had to worry about it. I'm going to  write down Vallejo 71.311 in case I do build an early war plane in the future. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    November 2004
Posted by snapdragonxxx on Wednesday, August 15, 2018 1:45 PM

There is lots of confusion about early war zero aircraft and their colour but I am putting pennies away to get tamiyas 1/32 zero (which I think is the best out there for this aircraft) and do it in Pearl Harbour colour... and it will be right!

Now the thing is, they were all brand new aircraft and painted in an "Ash Grey" colour. this actually has a greenish tint to it. This is the colour that would have been seen over Pearl Harbour, but the light on that day actually made the colour of that aircraft look much paler than it was. The shade used is a mimetic colour and changing light changes the shade.

When exposed to the sea air there was a chemical change to the paint work and some became a chalky white. This is what confuses people.

You want the Ash Grey?

Vallejo 71.311 is a match to the IJN chipset.

AK Q1 (see previous post) is a match for the cowling and the chipset (unusual for AK to get it spot on!)

Lifecolor Aotake UA-136 is the best copy of Aotake I have ever seen and when put on looks the business!

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Wednesday, August 15, 2018 11:38 AM

Thanks James for the run-down. I'm going to have to write all this down in case I build something German again. 

This stuff is more confusing than the colour of early war Zeros..... Bang Head

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    November 2004
Posted by snapdragonxxx on Wednesday, August 15, 2018 8:27 AM

Here's the paints I am using.

First, a bit of background.

As a vehicle restorer with a large warehouse of unrestored vehicles recovered from a lake in Germany getting things absolutley right first time is a must so I do spend time in archives in Germany reading up on these vehicles and their variants, production, usage, combat reports etc.

When it comes to paints I struck gold and through the archives made contact with a company in Bavaria who made paints for the military throughout the war and still do today.

With a bit of persuasiveness and getting the owner intersted in what i was doing gained access to their archives where a complete chipset and changes were found along with the companies batch samples, formulaes etc.

By this time, I had really got the interest of the owner, who had taken the opportunity to drive one of my restored Panthers when he visited with me to see what I was doing. He offered to remake the paints for me from their archive sources but said that there could be changes as these paints couldn't be made any more due to the lead content and we settled on acrylic hard wearing paint.

Enthusiasm and history (even if it was a dark time in Germany) is infectious and the paints were remade from the formulaes with modern materials and then matched to the original chipsets for accuracy.

Now, the most interesting colour, RAL 7028, Dunkelgelb is not actually Dunkelgelb (Dark Yellow)

In February 1943, OKW (German High command) submitted a colour to the RAL register to be included called Dunkelgelb Nach Muster (Dark Yellow After Pattern).

They immediatly started putting it on all NEW vehicles in coming out of the factories as the new base coat. Now this colour was not accepted into the RAL registry and cannot be called RAL 7028. It was used from February to August 1943 and was stopped being used at the end of OPeration Citadel (the Kursk Offensive).

Front line crews said it was too bright and didn't help with camouflage and made their vehicles sand out, while the other two colours (RAL 6003 Green and RAL 8017 red brown or Chocolate) worked well.

Original Dunkelgelb Nach Muster

 

What went into the RAL catalogue as RAL 7028 in August 1943 was this:

Not a dark yellow... more a beige!

In May 1944 there was another change and a deeper more bown hue came in as the base coat RAL 7028.

New vehicles used in the Normandy campaign, especially Panther and Tiger II tanks were base coat painted in this

Very similar to one of the Afrika Corps colours.

In October 1944 durin Operation Panzerfaust a field trial took place with a few Tiger II tanks from the 503rd Heavy Panzer Batallion with a new variant of RAL 7028 and a base coat of RAL 6003 and RAL 8017.

This trial was successful and recieved a positive response from the crews. This new colour scheme was started to be used at about Christmas 1944 and officially from January 1945

It has a darker and more greenish hue than the original Nach Muster shade.

Throughout the war, there was no more than a 10% variance from the chipset colours, proof obtained from a letter sent out to all paint manufacturers stating this and thanking them for their hard work.

The AK "Real Colours" range for this doesn't match at all the original colours and that it because the shades they have "researched" are from relics that have been outside or not stored correctly and subject to weather and sunlight. Also they have a policy of "scale effect" which further muddies the waters and moves the colour away from the original chipset.

So, Here's a list of the colours I'm using.

AK

Q1 Anti-glare Blue-Black AK 2066

Part of the Japanese set for the Cowling of Zero aircraft etc. In actual fact, a match for the torsion bars, machine guns, tops of Gurtsacks, panzer exhausts and DB aero engines!

RAL 8012 Red Oxide Valllejo Model Air 71.121 Primer colour.

RAL 7016 VMA Blaugrau 71.115 - Gearbox, turret motor and maybach Engine etc.

RAL 7008 VMA 71.020 Gurtsacks, Gearbox, turet motor, first aid box etc.

Gearboxes and other ancillary equipment could be any of the three colours above as they came from subsiduary builders.

RAL 9001 VMA 71.270 panzer interior.

RAL 6003 VMA 71.092 Exterior

RAL 8017 VMA 71.041 Exterior

Here's the closest you'll get to the last RAL 7028 variant at this moment in time:

VMA 71.116 (RAL 7008) actually an Afrika Korps colour!

VMA 71.315 Tyre Black

 

There you go. Should help you very much

 

James

  • Member since
    November 2013
Posted by Davja on Wednesday, August 15, 2018 1:57 AM

Thanks, I've been wanting to try Vallejo out.  But then, there's a lot of things I've been needing/wanting to do, like dig into the stash and get some things done.  

  • Member since
    November 2004
Posted by snapdragonxxx on Tuesday, August 14, 2018 11:47 AM

Ok... Not at my bench at the moment.

The glue that I use on the clear parts.... And they are clear aren't they... Is Tamiya Extra Thin. I use the capillary action and if used properly it won't fog.

this means that you will have to be careful over handling as there are many small parts.

you also want to look carefully at the type of superglue too

The paints I use are primarily Vallejo Model Air And some AK. Vallejo are chipset accurate that I will list for you. The only exception to this is the alternative to the last shade of RAL 7028. Vallejo are working on the correct chipset for this and the changes it went through, but they are not available yet so the paint for this I list will be as close as I can get and probably within 10% of the chipset colour which was allowed.

  • Member since
    November 2013
Posted by Davja on Tuesday, August 14, 2018 11:01 AM

Thanks Snap,

I have a set of the Gunze Panzer colors, but would really appreciate the list of correct paints.  What glue did you use for the clear parts?  I know I read it, just can't remember what it was, getting old and stuff, lol.

 

  • Member since
    November 2004
Posted by snapdragonxxx on Tuesday, August 14, 2018 4:21 AM

Nice one!

you will enjoy this kit, but be warned.... You'll spend most of the build in the paint shop.

I'm really happy that my build is having a positive effect on builders and potentially showing the way forwards for interior kits.

at this moment there is loads of small bits on the painting bench that goes on to the underside of the upper hull.

Davja, my advice is not to jump in but to spend lots of time with the instruction book and also the clear parts and decide just how you want it to look when finished and work back from that. Make a plan, build in some flexibility and then start.

You will also want lots of various widths of masking tape and if you wish, I can put up a list of CORRECT paints for you.

 

James

  • Member since
    November 2013
Posted by Davja on Monday, August 13, 2018 9:34 PM

My kit showed up today, they pack a lot of stuff in a box that size.  I'll get to it in about 75 years after I've knocked all the dust and rust off the modeling skills.

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Monday, August 13, 2018 11:27 AM

Love that detail James!!! 

She's gonna be as impressive as Censored

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

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