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Panther F & G (Late) Steel Wheel question?

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  • Member since
    November 2005
Panther F & G (Late) Steel Wheel question?
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, July 7, 2004 11:54 AM
Hello All,

I hope you can help answer a question for me concerning the Panther F & G (Late) Steel Wheels. I'm doing some research into the Panther tank and have found some statements that are confusing concerning the steel wheels used on the tank.

Here we go!

1. Thomas Jentz in his book "Panther Tank - Quest For Combat Supremacy" on page 96 says this: 'As revealed by the drawing number (021 D 50204), these roadwheels were originally designed for the Panther II. Except for the hub, these 800mm diameter, steel-tyred roadwheels were exactly the same as those mounted on all Tiger II and Tiger I (Late)'

2. Bruce Crosby says on a website: 'There is always a lot of confusion about Panther wheel types so perhaps a quick run down on them would be in order here. Late Panther Ausf G would have been identical to the standard G except for 860 mm steel tyred (Gummisparende or "rubber saving") wheels. Ausf F would have had the G hull and 860mm steel wheels, with the Schmalturm armed with the 7.5 cm gun. Early and late 860mm Panther wheels were interchangeable on the vehicle and in fact the steel ones were meant to be a direct replacement as the rubber tyred ones wore out. Note the difference in wheel size between the late Panther Ausf G/Panther Ausf F and the Panther II/Tiger pattern, they look just about the same but were 60 mm different in diameter, made from different parts, bearings, etc, and thus were not interchangeable between Panther and Tiger.'

I know that the original wheels on the Panther were 860mm but who's right here?

Thanks! Big Smile [:D]
JD

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, July 7, 2004 12:19 PM
This doesn't answer your question exactly but here is a picture of a Late Panther G with a steel wheel on the last station...



Looks close and obviously it was possible to mount them up on a stock Panther G

Hope this is of some help
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, July 7, 2004 12:41 PM
What a great photo Kenneth. Thanks for the find.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, July 7, 2004 1:05 PM
Both are correct!

Steel tired road wheels were originally designed for the Panther II/Tiger with 800mm road wheels. The idea was then adapted to the Panther G/F with 860mm road wheels.

The Panther A/D/G/F could share road wheels as could the Panther II/Tiger but the they were not interchangeable between Panther and Panther II/Tiger

As a side note: After combat trials on Panthers it was found that the front steel wheels would crack the track links and subsequently were only used on the rearmost station.


  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, July 7, 2004 5:30 PM
Hello All,

Thanks for the picture Kennethc! Tongue [:P]

JD
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 8, 2004 12:03 AM
Only about 20 Panthers were built with all steel wheels. As Derek says, they were murder on the tracks, so the ones they had left over were used as replacements for rear wheels only.
  • Member since
    September 2021
Posted by Model All on Sunday, September 5, 2021 5:08 PM

The late Mr.Jentz (may he rest in peace) is correct. The steel wheel was only 800 mm in diameter, owing to the fact that the rubber used was internal. The orginal wheel was 860 mm in diameter, the outer tire was 30 mm thick all round, a total of 60 mm greater in diameter. The steel wheel used a internal rubber "O" ring as a dampner clamped in the outer two haves that made up each wheel. The orginal wheel was a single pressing with a outer ring bolted to it to hold the outer tire in place. Orginaly bolted together with 16 bolts (orginal Ausf. D), the tires often failed prematurely, so the number of bolts was increased to 24 to help with the failures (later Ausf. D, Ausf. A, and Ausf.G). The steel wheels were designed to save on rubber and, as previously stated, placed the "O" ring internally clamped between two wheel halves of different diameters bolted together to make up a single wheel. As you probably know, some model G's used in the battle known in this country as "The Bulge" (in Deutschland as Wacht am Rhein, "Watch on the Rhein") used the steel wheels and as a result, it was found that the guide horns on the orginal tracks were not strong enough as they were hollow in the center and often broke, and in need of redesign to function properly with the steel wheels.

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