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Clear coats

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  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Clear coats
Posted by Bakster on Wednesday, January 12, 2022 3:23 PM

I am way behind the eight ball when it comes to using Future. Years back, I had tried it, and I had a heck of the time getting it through my AB.  I upgraded ABs since then and last night I tried spraying it on a test piece. It sprayed very well but it produced an orange peel finish. In terms of by what degree, it is not the worst I have seen by any stretch, but it is more than I will accept. And this has been my concern all along with using it. YouTube videos where people demonstrate its use always seem to show that OP. Maybe that's as good as it gets? I would really like to use this stuff in some manor but not at the expense of the finish.

As for autos--I know that I can get the finish I want using a clear lacquer, then sand with progressively smaller grit, followed with a polish. I know that works. I'd just like to find a simpler method. There is a YouTube channel that I follow, and the man literally brushes Future over his entire model. It looks crazy when he does it. The model is finished, and he slathers future over the entire car, windows, and all. And to be honest-- I have seen drips and sags on the final reveal. For his channel and his purposes, it's good enough. I did a little experimenting with his brushing technique and had so so results. I thought if I'd put it on in a more controlled method that maybe it would work. As of today, I am not so optimistic.

I am still working with it to see what I can do but I thought I'd start a discussion. What are you folks using, and what is your process?  My question is focused more on Auto finishes, but I'd be interested in other genres as well. I know it is commonly used to enhance decaling and/or to provide a barrier against washes.

Thanks in advance.

 

 

  • Member since
    June 2014
Posted by BrandonK on Wednesday, January 12, 2022 3:37 PM

I hate Future and the only reason I can see why folks use it is that it is cheap. I personally hate trying to get it to look how I want so I quit using it altogether. I know some folks think it's the bee's knees, but not for me. 

For auto finishes I'm assuming most of the time we want that base coat clear coat look rather than the single stage look of older paint work. I prefer the former, but each has its place. For me, I would rather clear and polish and get a glass smooth look than speed up the process and not get the results I have in my mind.

I used to use and still do somewhat a rattle can clear Krylon that works very well. I just had a reaction to MM Enamal (acrylic seems to be fine) on my last paint so I am stripping that and will attempt to use 2K clear for the first time over MM Enamel. Others have said they had no issues. I will still have to cut and buff, but I expect that on auto finishes. It's just part of the process of building cars.

I find that anytime I attempt to shortcut a process I usually end up with twice the work, so anymore I just take the time to cut and buff.

BK

Dream room complete!! BalloonsBeer

On the bench:Tamiya 1/48 Sea Harrier,

Tamiya 1/35 M4A3E8 "Fury" with crew,

1/32 Kittyhawk Kingfisher,

1/35 Meng Panther Ausf A Early,

1/25 Revell 29 Roadster

 

On Deck: Accurate Minataures 1/48 P-51C "Boise Bee",

Tamiya 1/48 F4U Birdcage, 

1/25 Revell 69 Boss 429 Mustang

1/25 Revell 32 Ford Coupe

1/12 Bandai "Mandolorian"

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Wednesday, January 12, 2022 4:12 PM

Hey Brandon-- I love the input you gave and I have heard 2K is the bomb. It seems to be what people are migrating to. One thing for sure-- it seems to provide a rock solid finish.

I would love to hear how it goes for you once when you have tried it.

Thanks again..

  • Member since
    April 2020
Posted by Eaglecash867 on Wednesday, January 12, 2022 5:11 PM

I haven't used 2K clear yet, but I have been using MRP 2K black for Alclad undercoating when I have a fairly large, flat surface that more easily shows imperfections in the undercoating.  Smaller and/or irregularly-shaped parts just get standard gloss black lacquer.  The 2K stuff works great, and the level of gloss is so far beyond everything else that its hard to describe it.  Just be aware that some 2K paints have a REALLY LONG curing time, regardless of what the manufacturer of the paint may claim, so do a test shot with some mixed paint and catalyst on something you won't mind ruining.  I think MRP claimed 6 hours to being tack free, and my spoon test showed that was nowhere near accurate.  It was still very much wet, not even just tacky yet, after 6 hours.  After 3 days, it was hard and tack free, but could still be dented with a fingernail.  7 days turned out to be the magic number.  Its hard as glass in 7 days, and putting Alclad over it looks really impressive.

I'm definitely with you on using Future.  It makes a good adhesive for small, flat PE parts and small clear parts, but that's about it.  To keep the stuff from cracking and yellowing over time, you have to put a clear lacquer over the top of it, so it leaves me wondering "What's the point of putting Future on it?".  Bang Head

"You can have my illegal fireworks when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers...which are...over there somewhere."

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Wednesday, January 12, 2022 6:40 PM

Hey Eaglecash, that is really good to know about the slow cure of 2k. It's not a deal stopper for me but it's important to know regarding handling and such.

Also, I guess I didn't know Future will yellow. That being the case, then yeah, what's the point. Sigh. Time to go in a new direction. I don't know if I want to go the 2k method just yet. I believe Testers Gloss Coat yellows too. Maybe I am wrong About that.

What other good options are there for a clear that can be sanded and polished? 

  • Member since
    April 2020
Posted by Eaglecash867 on Wednesday, January 12, 2022 7:29 PM

Hey Bakster.  Something I have used here and there lately is AKs Intermediate Gauzy Agent Shine Enhancer.  It self-levels really well, even when airbrushed, so you don't get orange peel with it.  Great protectant for bare metal type finishes.  The jury is still out on its longevity of course, since its so new, but it seems to be pretty good stuff so far.  Cure time on that is overnight or less.  

"You can have my illegal fireworks when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers...which are...over there somewhere."

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Wednesday, January 12, 2022 9:50 PM

Thanks Eaglecash, I will look into it.

I just watched a pretty good video comparing a lacquer based clear, verses a 2k clear. 2k is night and day glossier, without polishing, hands down. The major aspect of 2k that keeps me from jumping on that train is that your are dealing with some seriously harmful chemicals. A person must take serious precautions, and right now, I don't want to take it to that level. But... the stuff really produces a serious gloss. 

If interested, the video is below.

https://youtu.be/AWjWYFY2pGc

 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Wednesday, January 12, 2022 11:24 PM

I'm a Future fan.  I love it for pre decaling my military stuff.  I've had some great luck clearcoating airliners and some autos with it as well.  I thin it 50/50 with isopropyl alcohol and spray about 17 PSI.   This is one of the first airliners I did and was very happy with the Future coat

 I also like because it won't interact with other paints so there's no disasters.

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    June 2021
Posted by rocketman2000 on Thursday, January 13, 2022 9:15 AM

Depends on the subject.  Clear coats are only found on modern cars, rods and customs.  For older cars I just polish the gloss paint finish.  Laquer paints polish the best.

For modern cars, rods, even modern racing cars I usually use Testors gloss coat. However, since that is getting harder to find, I have been experimenting with hardware store gloss transparent finishes- lacquer, polyurethane, and acrylic.  They all work, but the nozzles are like hoses, so you get a really thick high gloss finish.  That is why I pick up Glosscoat whenever I find it.  The nozzles are great, you get a soft spray, and I can control the amount of gloss.  I even found a semi-gloss acrylic one time, but the next time I went there it was no longer available.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Thursday, January 13, 2022 10:10 AM

keavdog
I'm a Future fan.

Hey John-- it is good to hear a success story.  As of yesterday, I was ready to punt on this. I did more experimenting with it and I just can't seem to spray a blemish free coat, not even close. Either I get orange peel, or if I spray heavy, I get sags. But worse than the sags, I see some splattering.

What I didn't think to try was cutting it with IPA. I tried that years ago with a dismal outcome. At the time that I tried it, the Future sort of sheared away from areas and then pooled. That was then though. Before I give up on this, I will try cutting it like you noted. I would really like to make this work because the shine is decent, it's cheap, it's low odor, and as you mentioned it does not react badly to the underlying paint layers.

Thanks for posting!

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Thursday, January 13, 2022 10:23 AM

rocketman2000
Depends on the subject.  Clear coats are only found on modern cars, rods and customs.  For older cars I just polish the gloss paint finish.  Laquer paints polish the best

Hey Don-- that is good input. Your comment about older cars fits with my project because I am working on a Model T. I thought about polishing the enamel paint that I'll be using, and that is certainly a good solution, maybe the best. I just figured that I'd like to apply a clear for dust purposes and to maybe negate the polishing process and avoid things like burn through. For this project, I am not looking for a deep clear, and that is why I thought that Future might be a good solution. It is not a deep clear-- it is more of a sheen or shine.

My interests seem to be migrating towards cars and I need to come up with a game plan on clears. New things to learn!

Thanks for chiming in!

  • Member since
    June 2014
Posted by BrandonK on Thursday, January 13, 2022 11:14 AM

Eaglecash867
Just be aware that some 2K paints have a REALLY LONG curing time,

Were you using thier hardener? I know MCW paints need a hardener and the automotive 2K paints, even the airsoles use a hardener. Otherwise they basically never cure up. Curious what your experience was with regard to that.

BK

Dream room complete!! BalloonsBeer

On the bench:Tamiya 1/48 Sea Harrier,

Tamiya 1/35 M4A3E8 "Fury" with crew,

1/32 Kittyhawk Kingfisher,

1/35 Meng Panther Ausf A Early,

1/25 Revell 29 Roadster

 

On Deck: Accurate Minataures 1/48 P-51C "Boise Bee",

Tamiya 1/48 F4U Birdcage, 

1/25 Revell 69 Boss 429 Mustang

1/25 Revell 32 Ford Coupe

1/12 Bandai "Mandolorian"

  • Member since
    June 2014
Posted by BrandonK on Thursday, January 13, 2022 5:10 PM

Oh, I nearly forgot. Tamiay X-22 is a fantastic clear for most anything. It may be what you are looking for. Use some Mr Hobby Leveling Thinner in it and you cannot go wrong.

BK

Dream room complete!! BalloonsBeer

On the bench:Tamiya 1/48 Sea Harrier,

Tamiya 1/35 M4A3E8 "Fury" with crew,

1/32 Kittyhawk Kingfisher,

1/35 Meng Panther Ausf A Early,

1/25 Revell 29 Roadster

 

On Deck: Accurate Minataures 1/48 P-51C "Boise Bee",

Tamiya 1/48 F4U Birdcage, 

1/25 Revell 69 Boss 429 Mustang

1/25 Revell 32 Ford Coupe

1/12 Bandai "Mandolorian"

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Thursday, January 13, 2022 7:20 PM

BrandonK

Oh, I nearly forgot. Tamiay X-22 is a fantastic clear for most anything. It may be what you are looking for. Use some Mr Hobby Leveling Thinner in it and you cannot go wrong.

BK

 

I thought I once read here that X22 was designed to be a mixing agent for flats and such. Probably a misnomer. I found this video done by the same guy that I posted the other day. He did test sprays of x22 using different types of thinners and processes, one of which uses Mr Hobby Leveling Thinner. Best I can tell, I like the Mr Hobby version best but depending on what you are going after, some of the other options may fit.

https://youtu.be/tyCng3nEdik

 

  • Member since
    April 2020
Posted by Eaglecash867 on Friday, January 14, 2022 6:37 AM

BrandonK
Were you using thier hardener? I know MCW paints need a hardener and the automotive 2K paints, even the airsoles use a hardener. Otherwise they basically never cure up. Curious what your experience was with regard to that.

 

BK

 

Yup.  I was using their hardener, which you mix 50/50 with the paint.  I use separate pippettes when mixing so I don't cross-contaminate, and the two components get mixed in a little Dixie bathroom cup.  I don't mix anything in my airbrush, because you can never guarantee a consistent mix that way.  Any 2K model paint should come as a kit, with a bottle of paint and a bottle of catalyst, which is what MRP does with theirs.  It does completely harden...just takes a lot longer than what the manufacturer claims.  Just wanted people to know that so they don't completely screw up a beautiful paint job by handling too early.  Can't always trust what the manufacturer tells you.  Cool

"You can have my illegal fireworks when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers...which are...over there somewhere."

  • Member since
    January 2020
Posted by Space Ranger on Friday, January 14, 2022 7:07 AM

Bakster

 

 
BrandonK

Oh, I nearly forgot. Tamiay X-22 is a fantastic clear for most anything. It may be what you are looking for. Use some Mr Hobby Leveling Thinner in it and you cannot go wrong.

BK

 

 

 

I thought I once read here that X22 was designed to be a mixing agent for flats and such. Probably a misnomer. I found this video done by the same guy that I posted the other day. He did test sprays of x22 using different types of thinners and processes, one of which uses Mr Hobby Leveling Thinner. Best I can tell, I like the Mr Hobby version best but depending on what you are going after, some of the other options may fit.

https://youtu.be/tyCng3nEdik

 

 

Tamiya X-22 is Clear. Tamiya X-21 is Flat Base, a matting agent intended to be added to gloss paint to flatten it. You can also add it to X-22 to make a satin or semigloss clear. You can also add it to Future.

  • Member since
    November 2021
  • From: Southern Indiana
Posted by Olezippi on Friday, January 14, 2022 7:57 AM

I did a clear coat test early last summer with spoons. I sprayed all three through my Paasche H air brush.  I used Tamiya TS-13 clear, Rust-Oleum clear gloss enamel, and Pledge Revive-it.  All 3 seem to have the same shine.  I sprayed the Pledge straight out of the bottle at 15 psi.  I now use Rust-Oleum Cyrstal clear acrylic lacquer which seems to have better results for me.  

"If you can't fix it with duct tape then it's and electrical problem"

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Friday, January 14, 2022 9:09 AM

Good to know Olezippi. This is what I was hoping for.  Seeing what people use, what works, what doesn't. This thread probably belongs in the Painting section but since I was leaning to the automotive side of things-- I thought I'd put it here.

Thanks for sharing this. Yes

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Friday, January 14, 2022 9:10 AM

Space Ranger

 

 
Bakster

 

 
BrandonK

Oh, I nearly forgot. Tamiay X-22 is a fantastic clear for most anything. It may be what you are looking for. Use some Mr Hobby Leveling Thinner in it and you cannot go wrong.

BK

 

 

 

I thought I once read here that X22 was designed to be a mixing agent for flats and such. Probably a misnomer. I found this video done by the same guy that I posted the other day. He did test sprays of x22 using different types of thinners and processes, one of which uses Mr Hobby Leveling Thinner. Best I can tell, I like the Mr Hobby version best but depending on what you are going after, some of the other options may fit.

https://youtu.be/tyCng3nEdik

 

 

 

 

Tamiya X-22 is Clear. Tamiya X-21 is Flat Base, a matting agent intended to be added to gloss paint to flatten it. You can also add it to X-22 to make a satin or semigloss clear. You can also add it to Future.

 

Yep. I figured it was a misnomer. Thanks for clarifying. 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Friday, January 14, 2022 9:36 AM

Bakster

 

 
keavdog
I'm a Future fan.

 

Hey John-- it is good to hear a success story.  As of yesterday, I was ready to punt on this. I did more experimenting with it and I just can't seem to spray a blemish free coat, not even close. Either I get orange peel, or if I spray heavy, I get sags. But worse than the sags, I see some splattering.

What I didn't think to try was cutting it with IPA. I tried that years ago with a dismal outcome. At the time that I tried it, the Future sort of sheared away from areas and then pooled. That was then though. Before I give up on this, I will try cutting it like you noted. I would really like to make this work because the shine is decent, it's cheap, it's low odor, and as you mentioned it does not react badly to the underlying paint layers.

Thanks for posting!

 

Hey John-- you are a steely-eyed missile-man.

I tried cutting Future 50/50 using IPA and it was a different experience. It sprayed like silk. The future leveled much better and I was able to keep sags under control. I was not noticing any orange peel or splatter, and I was able to draw out a nice sheen/shine.

From this test-- it has brought me great hope that this will work for me. I will do more tests over the weekend to confirm all this. I can see this being very useful for things like the airliner you built. This stuff will provide a perfect shine for that. And this should be good for my model T too. I will test that over the enamel once I get there. Finally, I can see this as a good layer between washes and especially if it does not add artifacts to the paint layer. The stuff has the added benefit of easy cleanup, low odor, and it's very cost effective. 

That said... I don't think I'd be reaching for it if  I'd want a deep automotive clear finish. But maybe... who knows.

Thought I'd let you know.

 

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