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Help, Aircraft Carrier Question

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  • Member since
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  • From: Earth, Milky Way Galaxy
Help, Aircraft Carrier Question
Posted by John 3:16 KJV on Sunday, September 19, 2021 9:28 PM

What color was this line on the deck?

     “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

     For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”  - John 3:16-17

 

 

  • Member since
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Posted by goldhammer88 on Sunday, September 19, 2021 10:09 PM

Judging by the Wildcats and national markings, I would say early war.  Deck most likely in 20B, deck blue stain, deck markings in white.

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  • From: Earth, Milky Way Galaxy
Posted by John 3:16 KJV on Sunday, September 19, 2021 10:16 PM

Awesome! Thank you, goldhammer! 
I'm working on a diorama base in the 1/48. :)

 

     “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

     For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”  - John 3:16-17

 

 

  • Member since
    April 2019
  • From: Earth, Milky Way Galaxy
Posted by John 3:16 KJV on Sunday, September 19, 2021 10:22 PM

Here it is currently. Suggestions and pointers welcome.

     “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

     For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”  - John 3:16-17

 

 

  • Member since
    August 2021
Posted by goldhammer88 on Sunday, September 19, 2021 10:24 PM

Would hold pretty much true for the entire war, so would work for all a/c in use.

Pre-war, was mohagany stain and yellow markings, at least on Lex and Sara.

 

I like that.  Maybe some light oil stains in a couple spots, and a few tire marks where planes landed.b depends on what portion of the deck you're portraying.

  • Member since
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  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, September 19, 2021 10:53 PM

In the second half of 1941, not too long before the attack on Pearl Harbor, the flight decks on the US carriers then in service were changed from Mahogany to Blue in stain color, not just the Lex and Sara

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
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Posted by goldhammer88 on Sunday, September 19, 2021 11:21 PM

I didn't remember if Yorktown and Enterprise had the earlier scheme or not, or when the change was made.  That's why I only mentioned the pair.  Suspect Ranger was the same.

I was thinking more era than specifics, for future reference if he wanted to do, say a yellow wing, and put it on a deck piece.

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, September 20, 2021 12:33 AM

Yeah, Yellow Wings are definitely Mahogany stain. IIRC, The change over to Blue stain happened around the time that the overall light gray was adopted for aircraft. Which in turn led to complaints about the light gray aircraft standing out against the blue flight decks when seen from the air and compromising the ship camouflage, so the topside blue gray color was brought into service shortly before the US entered the war. At least that it was I remember reading in one of my books...

Just like the Army Air Force's change from NMF to OD/Neutral Gray, not all aircraft had been repainted into the latest scheme by December 7th. Photos taken in the immediate aftermath of the attack show some surviving aircraft of both services in previous schemes, as well as the new ones.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
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Posted by John 3:16 KJV on Monday, September 20, 2021 11:31 AM

Would my blue be relatively accurate? I'm thinking USS Ranger 1942 or any carrier during Operation Torch. I've got a Wildcat to put on top.

I was kinda surprised that it had to be blue or blue/gray. I had originally though it would be a lighter wood color. Then I researched a bit! 

     “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

     For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”  - John 3:16-17

 

 

  • Member since
    August 2021
Posted by goldhammer88 on Monday, September 20, 2021 12:01 PM

With sun, salt air and wear and tear, probably pretty close if close to the end of an operation.

Color photos are few and far between for that, and taking into account color rendition and age, you have license to do what looks good in your eyes.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, September 20, 2021 12:41 PM

This paragraph is from shipcamouflage.com

 

aircraft carrier flight decks be painted with 250N Blue Flight Deck stain. This was a dark blue gray stain that very nearly matched the 20B Deck Blue used on all other decks.

 

In respect to flight deck markings, these also underwent a change from the pre-war Chrome Yellow striping, to a less visible stain called 251N, a color almost identical to that of 5-0 Ocean Gray. On the LEXINGTON and HORNET in 1942 there was the use of solid deck lines in 251N. WASP and SARATOGA may have been similarly painted. By early 1943 the ENTERPRISE, SARATOGA, and RANGER were marked as follows: ENTERPRISE had broken yellow lines, SARATOGA had broken 251N lines, and RANGER had solid 251N lines. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, September 20, 2021 1:04 PM

The color looks pretty good, but the planks look too wide. They should be a scale 6", or 1/8" on your base.

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, September 20, 2021 2:45 PM

John 3:16 KJV

Here it is currently. Suggestions and pointers welcome.

 

WWII USN carrier decks had preforated metal strips for tieing down the aircraft every so many plank widths along the length of the flight deck. Here's a good shot of the decking before the change of Mahogany to Blue stain. As you can see, the metal was painted to match to adjacent planking.

 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    April 2019
  • From: Earth, Milky Way Galaxy
Posted by John 3:16 KJV on Monday, September 20, 2021 3:56 PM

stikpusher

This paragraph is from shipcamouflage.com

 

aircraft carrier flight decks be painted with 250N Blue Flight Deck stain. This was a dark blue gray stain that very nearly matched the 20B Deck Blue used on all other decks.

 

In respect to flight deck markings, these also underwent a change from the pre-war Chrome Yellow striping, to a less visible stain called 251N, a color almost identical to that of 5-0 Ocean Gray. On the LEXINGTON and HORNET in 1942 there was the use of solid deck lines in 251N. WASP and SARATOGA may have been similarly painted. By early 1943 the ENTERPRISE, SARATOGA, and RANGER were marked as follows: ENTERPRISE had broken yellow lines, SARATOGA had broken 251N lines, and RANGER had solid 251N lines. 

 

 

So would the line be ocean gray instead of white?

     “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

     For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”  - John 3:16-17

 

 

  • Member since
    April 2019
  • From: Earth, Milky Way Galaxy
Posted by John 3:16 KJV on Monday, September 20, 2021 3:57 PM

goldhammer88

With sun, salt air and wear and tear, probably pretty close if close to the end of an operation.

Color photos are few and far between for that, and taking into account color rendition and age, you have license to do what looks good in your eyes.

 


GMorrison

The color looks pretty good, but the planks look too wide. They should be a scale 6", or 1/8" on your base.

 

Bill

 

 

I'm glad the color's good. As I said, I was surprised that it was gonna have to be blue.

I'm not sure I can do much about the planks now?...Huh?

 

 

     “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

     For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”  - John 3:16-17

 

 

  • Member since
    April 2019
  • From: Earth, Milky Way Galaxy
Posted by John 3:16 KJV on Monday, September 20, 2021 3:59 PM

stikpusher

WWII USN carrier decks had preforated metal strips for tieing down the aircraft every so many plank widths along the length of the flight deck. Here's a good shot of the decking before the change of Mahogany to Blue stain. As you can see, the metal was painted to match to adjacent planking.

 

 

That's a helpful pic! Any suggestions for how to incorporate these?

     “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

     For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”  - John 3:16-17

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, September 20, 2021 5:17 PM

Correct, for the Torch period, gray stripes. Later in the war, different color stripes was tried on various ships to improve their visibility.

As far as the tie down strips go, there are some companies who make the strips in phot etch. I think that I count a tie down strip, seven planks, then the next tie down strip, repeat, as far as the spacing goes.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, September 20, 2021 5:36 PM

John 3:16 KJV

Here it is currently. Suggestions and pointers welcome.

 

Your planking color is not far off from this well weathered 1943 era flight deck

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    April 2019
  • From: Earth, Milky Way Galaxy
Posted by John 3:16 KJV on Monday, September 20, 2021 6:25 PM

stikpusher

Correct, for the Torch period, gray stripes. Later in the war, different color stripes was tried on various ships to improve their visibility.

As far as the tie down strips go, there are some companies who make the strips in phot etch. I think that I count a tie down strip, seven planks, then the next tie down strip, repeat, as far as the spacing goes.

 

 

Thank you! 
I wonder if I could use tin foil? Probably more complicated.
Either way, I'm not certain how to get the metal to match the wood because I used a wood stain to get its current color.

     “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

     For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”  - John 3:16-17

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Tuesday, September 21, 2021 8:15 AM

John 3:16 KJV
 
stikpusher

Correct, for the Torch period, gray stripes. Later in the war, different color stripes was tried on various ships to improve their visibility.

As far as the tie down strips go, there are some companies who make the strips in phot etch. I think that I count a tie down strip, seven planks, then the next tie down strip, repeat, as far as the spacing goes. 

Thank you! 
I wonder if I could use tin foil? Probably more complicated.
Either way, I'm not certain how to get the metal to match the wood because I used a wood stain to get its current color. 

Yeah, you'll go nuts trying to make your own tie-down strips out of foil, or any other material.  You can get PE tie-down strips in 1/48, by Tom's Modelworks, from MegaHobby:

https://www.megahobby.com/products/us-carrier-deck-tie-downs-1-48-toms-modelworks.html

Now, if you want to go nuts anyway, you could use Plastruct or Evergreen rectangular channel stock under the tie-downs, for depth.  But it would look just as good to paint the base underneath black.

Hope that helps!

Best regards,

Brad

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    August 2021
Posted by goldhammer88 on Tuesday, September 21, 2021 9:22 AM

At this point in time, I'd probably forget tie downs. That's just me.

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Tuesday, September 21, 2021 11:55 AM

White Ensign Models offers a 1:72 tie-down strip set which includes chains and ratchets.  It also has modern tie-down stars.

Richard Harden/Tom's Modelworks bought the rights to WEM's PE line when WEM shuttered its doors.   You can order direct from Harden at Toms 

As far as painting, do like the 1:1 USofA Navy did.   Decks were stained wood.  Tie down strips and other deck hardware were painted with colors to match.    Here is your opportunity to add a bit of color, rust or primer.  A slight different shade to indicate that the tie downs were made of a different material.

 

EDIT: They're also available in 1:48 scale

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Tuesday, September 21, 2021 4:41 PM

John 3:16 KJV
Either way, I'm not certain how to get the metal to match the wood because I used a wood stain to get its current color.

Actually, the deck metal was to comply with metal deck painting.  Pre-war that would have been Deck Gray; during WWII it would have been Deck Blue.

I have seen the PE tie-down strips chemically blackened, and that "works" too.

While the official paint color was meant to e near Ocean Gray, a modeler can be forgiven for using one of the Gull Grays.

  • Member since
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  • From: Earth, Milky Way Galaxy
Posted by John 3:16 KJV on Tuesday, September 21, 2021 8:30 PM

Thanks for the tips and advice, everyone! 
It would be nice to have the PE...

     “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

     For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”  - John 3:16-17

 

 

  • Member since
    August 2021
Posted by goldhammer88 on Tuesday, September 21, 2021 8:58 PM

If the width of the tie downs is the same as the planking, then you could glue it down after painting or other treatment.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, September 21, 2021 9:22 PM

CapnMac82
Actually, the deck metal was to comply with metal deck painting.  Pre-war that would have been Deck Gray; during WWII it would have been Deck Blue.

If you look at the pre war photos, the tie down strips were painted to match the Mahogany deck stain. During the war it matched the blue flight deck stain. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, September 22, 2021 12:11 AM

stikpusher
During the war it matched the blue flight deck stain. 

..because they were painted Deck Blue 20-B, which in turn was meant to match (in Ranger's case):

her deck was stained with Blue Deck Stain, Norfolk Formula No. L-81-3m. 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, September 22, 2021 12:38 PM

And just to make it a bit more fun... the blue stain color changed during the war...

Again from ship camouflage.com

 

 In February 1943 carrier aircraft began to change their colors from non-specular Blue Gray to semi-gloss Sea Blue. Along with this change there was the introduction of a new flight deck stain for carriers called #21 Flight Deck stain which began to be employed on the ESSEX class as they came into service in 1943. This color when newly applied exactly matched that of 5-0 Ocean Gray. This new stain was also used on the flight decks of INDEPENDENCE class CVLs and CVE classes in 1943 and into 1944. About mid 1944 there was the introduction of #21 Flight Deck stain (revised). This revised stain was (when newly applied) identical to 20B deck Blue (revised) and was a near match in service with the introduction in March 1944 of glossy Sea Blue, a new camouflage color for use on carrier aircraft. When a flight deck was using #21 Flight Deck stain the deck markings would not have been in 251N but would probably have been in yellow.

In In February 1943 carrier aircraft began to change their colors from non-specular Blue Gray to semi-gloss Sea Blue. Along with this change there was the introduction of a new flight deck stain for carriers called #21 Flight Deck stain which began to be employed on the ESSEX class as they came into service in 1943. This color when newly applied exactly matched that of 5-0 Ocean Gray. This new stain was also used on the flight decks of INDEPENDENCE class CVLs and CVE classes in 1943 and into 1944. About mid 1944 there was the introduction of #21 Flight Deck stain (revised). This revised stain was (when newly applied) identical to 20B deck Blue (revised) and was a near match in service with the introduction in March 1944 of glossy Sea Blue, a new camouflage color for use on carrier aircraft. When a flight deck was using #21 Flight Deck stain the deck markings would not have been in 251N but would probably have been in yellow. 

 

 February 1943 carrier aircraft began to change their colors from non-specular Blue Gray to semi-gloss Sea Blue. Along with this change there was the introduction of a new flight deck stain for carriers called #21 Flight Deck stain which began to be employed on the ESSEX class as they came into service in 1943. This color when newly applied exactly matched that of 5-0 Ocean Gray. This new stain was also used on the flight decks of INDEPENDENCE class CVLs and CVE classes in 1943 and into 1944. About mid 1944 there was the introduction of #21 Flight Deck stain (revised). This revised stain was (when newly applied) identical to 20B deck Blue (revised) and was a near match in service with the introduction in March 1944 of glossy Sea Blue, a new camouflage color for use on carrier aircraft. When a flight deck was using #21 Flight Deck stain the deck markings would not have been in 251N but would probably have been in yellow. 

 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
Posted by modelcrazy on Wednesday, September 22, 2021 1:47 PM

Aren't ships fun!!

Steve

Building a kit from your stash is like cutting a head off a Hydra, two more take it's place.

 

 

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  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: West Virginia, USA
Posted by mfsob on Monday, October 18, 2021 8:06 AM

My vote is to leave the deck base as it, FWIW - it looks good to my eye, adding PE tie-down strips would be a royal PITA as well as run the very real risk of messing up the entire base, and besides, it's your model. If it looks good to you, go with it.

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