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Badger 105

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  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Badger 105
Posted by Bakster on Saturday, June 26, 2021 4:45 PM

I purchased a 105 several months back and I have just a few miles on it. This is my first gravity feed brush, prior to this I used only siphon feed.

To my concern:  I have noticed the needle has a loose feel to it when compared to my other brushes. To put it another way, it seems to have slop to it. My other brushes are tight as the needle goes past the needle bearing. I wasn't too concerned about this figuring that it is just the way this brush is.  However, I am noticing something when its time to clean the brush. Paint is traveling back along the needle well into the body of the brush. Today, when I went to use it, I found the needle was locked by paint. Once I got it out, I could see dried paint even past the are of trigger mechanism. And the thing is, I did a fairly thorough cleaning with the previous use. Not good enough it seems. I do find this brush takes more effort to clean.

Long story short. Is what I am experiencing normal for this brush?

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Saturday, June 26, 2021 5:17 PM

Bakster

I purchased a 105 several months back and I have just a few miles on it. This is my first gravity feed brush, prior to this I used only siphon feed.

To my concern:  I have noticed the needle has a loose feel to it when compared to my other brushes. To put it another way, it seems to have slop to it. My other brushes are tight as the needle goes past the needle bearing. I wasn't too concerned about this figuring that it is just the way this brush is.  However, I am noticing something when its time to clean the brush. Paint is traveling back along the needle well into the body of the brush. Today, when I went to use it, I found the needle was locked by paint. Once I got it out, I could see dried paint even past the are of trigger mechanism. And the thing is, I did a fairly thorough cleaning with the previous use. Not good enough it seems. I do find this brush takes more effort to clean.

Long story short. Is what I am experiencing normal for this brush?

 

That inner seal nut may be loose. I'd check that out first, then contact Badger. They may just have you send it in.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Saturday, June 26, 2021 11:04 PM

oldermodelguy
That inner seal nut may be loose. I'd check that out first, then contact Badger. They may just have you send it in.

Thanks. Not sure what to think on this. It looks like it's in there Ok, that I can tell. Maybe I need to review how I clean it after use.

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Sunday, June 27, 2021 5:39 AM

Paint shouldn't make it all the way back to the trigger, the inner seal should stop it. On my Gazton ( similar top feed da design) and others I know with 105s rarely even take the rear half of the brush apart for cleaning except as far as to loosen the needle nut and pull the needle. My Badger 200 is single action but non less I've never seen paint back that far.

Someone will be along with more specific info on the 105.

  • Member since
    March 2013
Posted by patrick206 on Sunday, June 27, 2021 12:31 PM

Hi, Steve - Sorry for the 105 problem, I have several Badgers of the 100 series family, they all use the same needle bearing. From time to time I have to tighten a bearing fit, but only after years of use. Even when it does get a bit loose, I cannot feel any "slop" when trying to wobble it a bit, it just has less drag when moving the trigger to spray.

Just my guess, the bearing may have been damaged and has split, OR, has it been lost while cleaning the body? Shine a tiny light into the gravity cup, then look straight back into the receptical area that holds the bearing. If you can't see a tiny, round, white object with a center hole, you're missing the bearing.

If it was improperly installed at the factory and either not tight enough, or too tight, it may well have just popped out. I've seen both examples on my Badger's, one time the bearing to needle fit was so tight, that trying to remove the needle resulted in the bearing coming out the front with the needle.

Shoot me a PM and I'll give you my Ph#, I'll try to help you get it sorted quickly, and I do have a bunch of the bearings on hand. If needed I could just send you a couple, free of course.

I'll bet Don Wheeler will stop by soon to help you.

Patrick

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Sunday, June 27, 2021 4:55 PM

patrick206
Shine a tiny light into the gravity cup, then look straight back into the receptical area that holds the bearing. If you can't see a tiny, round, white object with a center hole, you're missing the bearing.

Howdy, Patrick... thanks for responding as well.

Yesterday, I did exactly that and at first I was mystified. I could see what appeared to be the bearing, but it was brass. All the documention I looked at indicated it should be teflon. I sat there scratching my head wondering if the documention is wrong. It wouldn't be the first time where a manufacter made a change and they didn't update the literature. Then it hit me. Earlier in the day I had sprayed Alclad brass and that must have coated the end of bearing! Wow. That threw me for a loop! 

Here is the strange thing. I tested the feel of the needle and I am not getting the slop that I first wrote about. There is a drag there now. Remember how I said the needle was stuck in the brush with paint? I am wondering if maybe when it broke free the bearing realigned. Sounds like coocoo talk but I don't know how else to explain this. 

Long story short, let me work with this more. If I continue to have problems I will surely PM you!

Thanks again!

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Saturday, July 17, 2021 9:15 PM

Bakster

 

 
patrick206
Shine a tiny light into the gravity cup, then look straight back into the receptical area that holds the bearing. If you can't see a tiny, round, white object with a center hole, you're missing the bearing.

 

Howdy, Patrick... thanks for responding as well.

Yesterday, I did exactly that and at first I was mystified. I could see what appeared to be the bearing, but it was brass. All the documention I looked at indicated it should be teflon. I sat there scratching my head wondering if the documention is wrong. It wouldn't be the first time where a manufacter made a change and they didn't update the literature. Then it hit me. Earlier in the day I had sprayed Alclad brass and that must have coated the end of bearing! Wow. That threw me for a loop! 

Here is the strange thing. I tested the feel of the needle and I am not getting the slop that I first wrote about. There is a drag there now. Remember how I said the needle was stuck in the brush with paint? I am wondering if maybe when it broke free the bearing realigned. Sounds like coocoo talk but I don't know how else to explain this. 

Long story short, let me work with this more. If I continue to have problems I will surely PM you!

Thanks again!

 

Ok. I am convinced there is something wrong with the brush. I sprayed tonight and paint got all the way back to the needle chuck. Spent at least thirty minutes tearing it down and trying to clean the brush. This is a new brush and I had issues along this line right out of the box. Not happy.

I sent Badger an email tonight to see what they will do for me. If this becomes the norm with this brush I am going back to my siphon feed 155. That one is reliable, easy to clean, and paint doesn't go past the needle bearing. This 105 is my first gravity feed and I am pretty disappointed.

Btw. One other thing I don't like about the 105. The spring clip that goes behind the trigger is a bear to reinstall. When I pull the needle for cleaning, the clip invariably falls out of place. I have a heck of a time getting it repositioned correctly. It sticks. Minor issue, but irritating none the less.

I will let you know how this comes out.

 

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Sunday, July 18, 2021 6:03 AM

Wait and see what Badger says but I can  tell you from experience they have great customer  support. A while back I had an issue with my Renegade that turned out to be an interior crack in the body and Badger sent me a new replacement airbrush.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Sunday, July 18, 2021 8:23 AM

Hey thanks PJ. Fingers crossed.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, July 20, 2021 4:13 PM

And speaking of customer service-- what would you consider an acceptable time for a responce from Badger?  I realize it can take time to filter through emails, I deal with the problem at work and with my customers. I wrote Badger via their cs email and I have heard nothing back.

I give people a long rope, and I am nowhere near to having reached the end but--I'd like to know what you think. I have heard it here many times that their service is great. The reason I ask is that based on past experience--it will be days before I get a responce. I had one email go over a month before they responded and by then I moved on. Maybe bad luck on my part but I'd like to know from you guys what I should expect.

Thoughts?  

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Tuesday, July 20, 2021 4:59 PM

When I had my issue I called and spoke to the repair tech. When possible human contact is the best way to resolve a problem.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, July 20, 2021 7:27 PM

plasticjunkie

When I had my issue I called and spoke to the repair tech. When possible human contact is the best way to resolve a problem.

 

Ok thanks PJ. I will give it a few more days. Worst case I will call.

  • Member since
    August 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Tuesday, July 20, 2021 8:12 PM

Bakster

And speaking of customer service-- what would you consider an acceptable time for a responce from Badger?  I realize it can take time to filter through emails, I deal with the problem at work and with my customers. I wrote Badger via their cs email and I have heard nothing back.

I give people a long rope, and I am nowhere near to having reached the end but--I'd like to know what you think. I have heard it here many times that their service is great. The reason I ask is that based on past experience--it will be days before I get a responce. I had one email go over a month before they responded and by then I moved on. Maybe bad luck on my part but I'd like to know from you guys what I should expect.

Thoughts?  

 

I'd give them a week or so.  I've left voicemails requesting information on mining claims from bureau of land management for over a year with no response.... No one working from the office to pull it out and send it.

They might be running on short staffing still.

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Tuesday, July 20, 2021 10:32 PM

Bakster

 

 
plasticjunkie

When I had my issue I called and spoke to the repair tech. When possible human contact is the best way to resolve a problem.

 

 

 

Ok thanks PJ. I will give it a few more days. Worst case I will call.

 



For all we know, the email may have never reached the correct person or it may have gotten lost in the shuffle, etc. I would give them a call tomorrow and the lady will transfer you to the repair tech. I think he gets in at 9am central time.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Wednesday, July 21, 2021 9:51 PM

Received a responce today, I was linked to their website. Apparently, there are instructions there. And that's that.

 

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Thursday, July 22, 2021 5:09 AM

Well everyone loves texts and email today but there is nothing like old fashion human to human conversation to work out details with.

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Thursday, July 22, 2021 5:57 AM

oldermodelguy

Well everyone loves texts and email today but there is nothing like old fashion human to human conversation to work out details with.

 

Ditto

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    April 2020
Posted by Eaglecash867 on Thursday, July 22, 2021 7:34 AM

oldermodelguy

Well everyone loves texts and email today but there is nothing like old fashion human to human conversation to work out details with.

 

Amen to that.  Although e-mails are usually a good means of communication, texting is a way for unproductive people to feel productive.  Texters can spend 3 or 4 hours texting back and forth to accomplish what could have been resolved with a 30 second telephone conversation.  I know this...I've tried both ways.  Cowboy

"You can have my illegal fireworks when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers...which are...over there somewhere."

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Thursday, July 22, 2021 8:22 AM

It's not only Badger but just about any business/Company is using the impersonal and ice cold methods of email or auto recordings to do the work of human interaction. Reminds me of a line in the 1967 song In The Year 2525. "Some machine doing that for you".

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    April 2020
Posted by Eaglecash867 on Thursday, July 22, 2021 8:46 AM

Yup.  I see that a lot even in my own company.  I'll be waiting for a flight manual supplement to be delivered from one of the aircraft manufacturers so I can complete the necessary airworthiness paperwork for a service bulletin, and it doesn't show up.  I call our purchasing staff and ask about it, and I get the answer of "Well...we e-mailed them, but they never got back to us."  So, I hang up and pick up the phone again to call the manufacturer, give them our purchase order number, and have my AFMS the next day.  Cool

Then, there are the really difficult conversations with customers about things that I found on their aircraft that need to be addressed due to safety of flight...those are always best handled face-to-face.  Its a little like a doctor having to give bad news to a patient or their family.  The personal touch is the best way.

"You can have my illegal fireworks when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers...which are...over there somewhere."

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Thursday, July 22, 2021 9:26 AM

oldermodelguy

Well everyone loves texts and email today but there is nothing like old fashion human to human conversation to work out details with.

 

Actually, that seems a little short sighted to me. I have very good reasons for emailing them: 

1. In business transactions it is always best to have a paper trail. Verbal communication can give you all kinds of promises, but when the rubber meets the road, "Oh, I never said that!" Or "oh, sorry, I forgot." I have been there. I deal with customers and vendors EVERY DAY and if you don't get it writing--it gets used against you and/or it quickly gets forgotten about. Email is a form of contract, and it also serves as an in your face reminder to follow through. But the worst part is, in verbal communication, people often tell you what you want to hear just to get you off the phone. Cynical? Heck yes, but THAT IS REALITY.

2. By using email I was able to attach a copy of the invoice showing my January purchase date. That is just me being efficient and it sets the standard for warranty expectations. Most CSRs would appreciate that information. As a sales rep I know that I would. With what I provided, including a detailed explanation of the problem, it cuts to the quick and allows the CSR to disemiminate the information quickly within the company. I was doing them a favor. That is how it rolls at my place of employment. If Badger is loosey goosey--which I am beginning to think they are, then maybe it won't mean a hill of beans.

3. I won't even get into the details of my time constraints. If I waited for a good time to call them, which might include voice messages and call backs-- it won't get done. I have far too much on my plate.

Regarding their responce. Though it was polite and it directed me in how to solve the problem, it completley ignored the bigger issue. That being, I suspect the brush was defective right out of the box.

Here is the problem. The link that the CSR directed me to details that I need to send $19 for return shipment. So--not only that I have to pay for shipping to them, but then I have to pay $19 to get it back. 

Is that good customer service? Not in my book! Not when I detailed that the brush had the noted problems at the get go. A good customer service model would be that they send a prepaid shipping label, and that they have no expectation of a return freight fee. THAT-- is good customer service, and THAT is standing behind their product. And by the way-- the brush is still in warranty. Yet, I have to pay for these things. I'd even compromise. If they'd find there is nothing wrong with the brush--OK--I'll pay for the return shipment.

And should this lack of service get escalated by me--guess what--I have their actions IN WRITING.

This is why I email.

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Monday, August 23, 2021 9:34 PM

Closing the loop some.

With a little arm twist Badger agreed that no fee should be sent for repair. In light of that concession I will give the CSR benefit of the doubt that they might have missed my waranty concern, though, they did not say that.

I recieved the repaired brush today and the packer states that they cleaned and replaced the tip, needle, regulator plunger and O ring needle bearing. 

It sounds like a thorough job and the brush was back in my hands in about 10 days from my shipping it.

Badgers concession, depth of repair, and their quick turn improves my opinion of them, into the realm of how others feel about them, but the final factor will be in how the brush operates. If I continue to get paint deep into the body, then maybe this will turn into a different discussion. 

In the days ahead I will give it a test drive and report back.

Fyi.

  • Member since
    August 2021
Posted by goldhammer88 on Monday, August 23, 2021 11:19 PM

At least they came through for you.  Here's hoping that it runs properly, and it's all behind you.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, August 24, 2021 12:28 AM

goldhammer88

At least they came through for you.  Here's hoping that it runs properly, and it's all behind you.

 

Agreed. Thanks. Fingers crossed. 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, August 24, 2021 12:34 AM

Could be there is something wrong.

I almost never ever ever take my 105 apart. 

Sort of a what goes in comes back out thing.

I suppose I've taken it apart five times in ten years.

As the Ozzie's say, she's "tight as a tick".

Kinda like my old bird dog, run stuff through her and it comes out ok. Never occured to me to take her apart and clean her...

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, August 24, 2021 12:08 PM

Bakster
In the days ahead I will give it a test drive and report back.

Glad to hear that they have come through with their usual style of customer service. Just curious, but did you in the past backflush your 105 when cleaning after a paint session? 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Tuesday, August 24, 2021 2:48 PM

I suspect all will be well. We await the confirmation report !

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, August 24, 2021 9:09 PM

GMorrison

Could be there is something wrong.

I almost never ever ever take my 105 apart. 

Sort of a what goes in comes back out thing.

I suppose I've taken it apart five times in ten years.

As the Ozzie's say, she's "tight as a tick".

Kinda like my old bird dog, run stuff through her and it comes out ok. Never occured to me to take her apart and clean her...

 

Bill

 

Amazing. Now that is a great endorsement for the brush. Yeah... I was not that lucky.

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, August 24, 2021 9:18 PM

H

stikpusher

 

 
Bakster
In the days ahead I will give it a test drive and report back.

 

Glad to hear that they have come through with their usual style of customer service. Just curious, but did you in the past backflush your 105 when cleaning after a paint session? 

 

Hey Stik, as a practice I no longer backflush, and I don't recall ever doing it with this brush. I may be wrong, but I tend to think backflushing pushes paint into the body of the brush. I have come to the idea that I don't see a need to do it, so why risk it. 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, August 24, 2021 9:20 PM

oldermodelguy

I suspect all will be well. We await the confirmation report !

 

Now there is a man with faith. Yes And will do, I will test it this weekend.

Thanks!

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