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Do I really need to vent outside?

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  • Member since
    May 2021
Do I really need to vent outside?
Posted by mightypudge on Wednesday, August 25, 2021 10:04 PM

Hey all. If I am airbrusing and spraying lacquers like Tamiya rattle cans, Zero paints, Gravity Colors, etc. do I absolutely need to vent to the outside? 

I live in a small apartment and my bench is in the master bedroom. The only window in the room is a sliding glass door that opens to a deck. I've been venting my portable spray booth by opening the door slightly and placing the vent in the gap. But, I've been getting eaten alive by mosquitos that are finding their way into my room while I'm painting. 

I have tried sealing the gap temporarily with foam strips and covering myself with insect repellent. Nothing seems to work.

I do wear a 3M respirator while I paint, and I have no pets or young children. 

  • Member since
    August 2021
Posted by goldhammer88 on Wednesday, August 25, 2021 11:00 PM

Take some 1x2's and make a frame that fits snug in the gap.  Cover with window screen, either plastic or metal, or clear visquene.  Any gaps around the edge, you can put foam door/window weatherstrip.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, August 26, 2021 12:00 AM

Yes, or get a piece of plywood or masonite a foot wide by 6'-8" tall. Cut a hole in it and close the door against. Attach vent.

Your biggest issue is that you may not know it but there's paint all over everything you own already, so stop doing that.

 

Bill

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    May 2021
Posted by mightypudge on Thursday, August 26, 2021 12:44 AM

GMorrison

Your biggest issue is that you may not know it but there's paint all over everything you own already, so stop doing that.



Stop doing what? Sorry, I'm not understanding. 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, August 26, 2021 12:51 AM

Spraying indoors without a fume extractor. I guess you aren't yet, so I meant to say "don't do it".

Sorry for the confusion. A little distressed about the death of our friend Toshi right now.

Apologies.

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    May 2021
Posted by mightypudge on Thursday, August 26, 2021 1:16 AM

GMorrison

Sorry for the confusion. A little distressed about the death of our friend Toshi right now.  



I'm sorry for your loss, Bill. And to the rest of the community as well. Take care of yourself. 

  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posted by Real G on Thursday, August 26, 2021 2:05 AM

Perhaps that curtain with the magnets would help.  They seem to work.  Spraying indoors is never a good idea, as you might not notice all the aerosol particles settling on everything, no matter how careful you are.

“Ya ya ya, unicorn papoi!”

  • Member since
    February 2021
Posted by MJY65 on Thursday, August 26, 2021 8:01 AM

I'd vote "yes" if using lacquer.  Even if the filter is catching some of the droplets and overspray, it sure as heck isn't stopping the flammable/toxic solvents.  If you aren't going to vent outside, you might as well spray into a cardboard box and skip the booth.

  • Member since
    June 2021
Posted by rocketman2000 on Thursday, August 26, 2021 9:04 AM

I disagree.  As someone mentioned above, much of the vapor you get is outgassing from droplets.  If you have a decent filter in your spray booth it cuts down considerably the vapors you get in the room.  During Minnesota winters I do not vent my booth outside.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    February 2021
Posted by MJY65 on Thursday, August 26, 2021 9:28 AM

rocketman2000
I disagree.  As someone mentioned above, much of the vapor you get is outgassing from droplets.  If you have a decent filter in your spray booth it cuts down considerably the vapors you get in the room. 

 

OK.  If it is outgassing within the filter and then being blown back into the room, aren't you still breathing it?

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Thursday, August 26, 2021 9:56 AM

GMorrison

Spraying indoors without a fume extractor. I guess you aren't yet, so I meant to say "don't do it".

Sorry for the confusion. A little distressed about the death of our friend Toshi right now.

Apologies.

 

Bill

 

Sorry to hear this Bill, I didn't know.

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Thursday, August 26, 2021 10:14 AM

Like Bill, I also misread your post and thought you were already spraying indoors without venting. Glad to hear you are not.

My opinion is yes, you need to vent outdoors. Sounds like you are planning to use lots of solvent-based paints and solvents. I played this game for several years, first spraying with a cardboard box as a booth, then with a proper booth with a double-filter, rationalizing that I 'mostly' sprayed acrylics, and that the fumes would stay downstairs with me and my respirator and not bother anyone else.

Somewhere in the middle of all this, my wife was diagnosed with lung cancer. I'll never know if my careless and selfish actions contributed or not, and I'm not particularly proud of myself one way or the other.

And yes, I have a very good extraction system now. I feel it was worth every penny and only wish I'd have done it sooner.

 

-Greg

  • Member since
    May 2021
Posted by mightypudge on Thursday, August 26, 2021 11:46 AM

First, thank you all for your responses and thoughtfulness towards our wellbeing. I always err on the side of caution when it comes to health and safety, and have been venting outdoors since I started painting last month.

(In the middle of all this, I learned of the unfortunate passing of Toshi last October. While I did not know Allen well, he was clearly a bedrock of this community and an all-around amazing guy. My condolences to all of you that are feeling the pain of this tragic and untimely loss.)

Here in Eastern PA, summer means humidity and mosquitoes galore, while winter brings with it frigid temperatures and unpredictable precipitation. If I am to continue venting to the outside, clearly I need to come up with a better solution.

Unfortunately, I do not have the means to build anything from sheetrock or plywood. Any solution would need to be temporary and easy to put up and tear down.

The gap in the doorway is only about an inch or so with the duct in place. What if I cut a strip of heavy duty cardboard the height of the doorway and a few inches wide, cut a hold for the duct, and taped it in place? If I use strong enough tape and decent cardboard, it should hold the weight of the duct, no?

  • Member since
    August 2021
Posted by goldhammer88 on Thursday, August 26, 2021 11:58 AM

If you have a Home Depot or Lowe's nearby, they will cut plywood to size, usually at no charge.  If you have a drill, you can drill a hole And pick up a keyhole saw at the same place to cut the hole for the duct.

Then I can use adhesive backed weatherstrip on the edge to seal any gap, or masking tape.

  • Member since
    May 2021
Posted by mightypudge on Thursday, August 26, 2021 12:14 PM

goldhammer88

If you have a Home Depot or Lowe's nearby, they will cut plywood to size, usually at no charge.  If you have a drill, you can drill a hole And pick up a keyhole saw at the same place to cut the hole for the duct.

Then I can use adhesive backed weatherstrip on the edge to seal any gap, or masking tape.

 
Thanks for the suggestion. This actually sounds doable for me!
  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Thursday, August 26, 2021 1:46 PM

Greg

 

Somewhere in the middle of all this, my wife was diagnosed with lung cancer. I'll never know if my careless and selfish actions contributed or not, and I'm not particularly proud of myself one way or the other.

 

The amounts we leave in the house and as many times as we do airbrushing is nothing like industrial use. While the fumes couldn't help any, they probably didn't contribute to any great extent or cause the cancer. Athsma, emphysema yes, allergy trigger yes, sinus trouble and infections yes.

I was just diagnosed Mon for instance with a low grade, ver low level prostate cancer and nurses etc say these 2 tiny spots may have been with me for years before psa tests started raising in level causing the visits to the urologist. At that the treatment suggestion for the next year is to monitor this. Course that's not lung cancer and maybe not even the pathengen type of your wifes but point being many of us live with inactive cancers in us till it decides to materialize more. Of course you have done the right thing getting the fumes out all together. You can't go backwards and beat on yourself as it's just unfruitful but take solice you've done right now.

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Thursday, August 26, 2021 1:53 PM

At that same HD you can probably get soft insulating foam a bit thicker than your opening and close the door down on that so it's actually a resistance fit. It should seal up nice and tight. I don't know if the other end of the door will be sealed either way, you just need to check that out.

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Friday, August 27, 2021 7:28 AM

Thanks for your thoughtful comments, OMG.

Incidentally, I should probably mention that we were extremely fortunate that my wife's cancer was caught extremely early, and after surgury she has been cancer free for coming up on 5 yrs.

It sounds as if yours was detected very early, too. As much as we all hate so much as hearing the "C" word, it sure seems great improvements have been made in treatments and positive outcomes. I have two friends who are also in the observation stage, so you make 3.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-Greg

dlh
  • Member since
    March 2017
  • From: Chambersburg, PA
Posted by dlh on Friday, August 27, 2021 10:15 AM

mightypudge

First, thank you all for your responses and thoughtfulness towards our wellbeing. I always err on the side of caution when it comes to health and safety, and have been venting outdoors since I started painting last month.

(In the middle of all this, I learned of the unfortunate passing of Toshi last October. While I did not know Allen well, he was clearly a bedrock of this community and an all-around amazing guy. My condolences to all of you that are feeling the pain of this tragic and untimely loss.)

Here in Eastern PA, summer means humidity and mosquitoes galore, while winter brings with it frigid temperatures and unpredictable precipitation. If I am to continue venting to the outside, clearly I need to come up with a better solution.

Unfortunately, I do not have the means to build anything from sheetrock or plywood. Any solution would need to be temporary and easy to put up and tear down.

The gap in the doorway is only about an inch or so with the duct in place. What if I cut a strip of heavy duty cardboard the height of the doorway and a few inches wide, cut a hold for the duct, and taped it in place? If I use strong enough tape and decent cardboard, it should hold the weight of the duct, no?

 

I have a similar setup.  You can fill that gap with foam pipe insulation of the right diameter, leaving a gap for the exhaust hose.  I keep tension on the door with a bungy cord hooked to the door handle and a hook on the wall.  You can also open up a second piece of pipe insulation and put that over the opposite edge of the sliding glass door where a gap is created.  I works great for me, even in the winter.

Dave

  • Member since
    May 2021
Posted by mightypudge on Friday, August 27, 2021 1:10 PM

dlh

I have a similar setup.  You can fill that gap with foam pipe insulation of the right diameter, leaving a gap for the exhaust hose.  I keep tension on the door with a bungy cord hooked to the door handle and a hook on the wall.  You can also open up a second piece of pipe insulation and put that over the opposite edge of the sliding glass door where a gap is created.  I works great for me, even in the winter.

 

Thanks, Dave! Do you think 1" diameter would work? 

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Frost-King-1-2-in-Wall-Thickness-x-1-in-Id-x-6-ft-Foam-Pipe-Insulation/1001089478

  • Member since
    August 2021
Posted by goldhammer88 on Friday, August 27, 2021 4:03 PM

Could also look at pool noodles if you go the pipe insulation route.  I know of any least 2 different diameters.  Usually available at box stores such as Walmart.

dlh
  • Member since
    March 2017
  • From: Chambersburg, PA
Posted by dlh on Friday, August 27, 2021 10:18 PM

mightypudge

 

 
dlh

I have a similar setup.  You can fill that gap with foam pipe insulation of the right diameter, leaving a gap for the exhaust hose.  I keep tension on the door with a bungy cord hooked to the door handle and a hook on the wall.  You can also open up a second piece of pipe insulation and put that over the opposite edge of the sliding glass door where a gap is created.  I works great for me, even in the winter.

 

 

 

Thanks, Dave! Do you think 1" diameter would work? 

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Frost-King-1-2-in-Wall-Thickness-x-1-in-Id-x-6-ft-Foam-Pipe-Insulation/1001089478

 

Mine is 1" ID, 1 3/4 OD. It depends on the width and depth of the track. I bought several sizes and tried them. They are cheap so you can experiment.

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Sunday, August 29, 2021 4:39 AM

Greg

Thanks for your thoughtful comments, OMG.

Incidentally, I should probably mention that we were extremely fortunate that my wife's cancer was caught extremely early, and after surgury she has been cancer free for coming up on 5 yrs.

It sounds as if yours was detected very early, too. As much as we all hate so much as hearing the "C" word, it sure seems great improvements have been made in treatments and positive outcomes. I have two friends who are also in the observation stage, so you make 3

 

Thanks Geg and I'm really glad your wife is well now, that's awesome !!

I guess my C is very slow acting , some guys my age have had this then went on in years to pass from something else all together. But I have options, it's very early and very tiny. I'll make all my follow up appointments and do as the doc suggests. Meanwhile life goes on .

  • Member since
    April 2020
Posted by Eaglecash867 on Sunday, August 29, 2021 8:20 AM

Great to read that your wife is doing well now, Greg.  Early detection is the key.

Like oldermodelguy, mine was very slow-moving, and it didn't start giving me any symptoms until it was Stage 3.  Early detection in my case wasn't an option, since the current guidance on colonoscopies made the starting age (50) two years after I was diagnosed.  My doctor estimates that it took at least 10 years for that type of cancer to get to Stage 3.  That was a "fun" year of my life with all of the stuff it took to get rid of it.  Confused Been in remission for a little over a year now, and I'm doing all of my follow-ups too.  Its just too easy to get a really big problem without even knowing its happening.  As long as my doctor is authorizing stuff so insurance pays for it, I'll get any scan or blood test he thinks I should get.

"You can have my illegal fireworks when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers...which are...over there somewhere."

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Sunday, August 29, 2021 9:09 AM

Thank you, Eagle.

Glad to hear yours in under control.

-Greg

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