Disappointed.

First off, I don't see your problem. FSM gave a good reason, ppl just plain didn't vote enough(or at least specifically enough) to warrant including em. If you want to see something, MAKE IT WORTH FSM's time! VOTE, my friend! FSM ain't the government, they don't have the money to simply bend to the will of everyone!
Besides, does sci-fi really make that big of an impact? I love making Gundam models, but I rarely(if ever) finish em in the suggested schemes, and almost always make 'em in camo, instead! And other than them, who really cares about sci-fi? Wouldn't you rather do an M1A1 Tank rather than a X-Wing? I know I would!

Well YenchiMuyo81, lots of people care about sci-fi. I enjoy a good Stat Trek, or Star Wars or Space:1999 model, even though I don't build them, I even enjoy a tank model, even though I never build them. Let's not be so narrow minded. We all can enjoy what we want, and even enjoy what we don"t like to build! The point is to have fun.
Lee

I think I understand what TenchiMuyo81 is saying. Say for example that only 1/10th of 1% of FSM's readers built cars. Would it make sense to fill it's pages with cars?...no! I don't want to spend time sifting through reams of pages of obscure subjects that are of no interest to me. It all comes down to the bottom line. It would appear that Kalmbach does not think there is enough interest in sci-fi. Maybe others will come forward and express an interest in sci-fi and make something happen.

Darren

Besides, I think Kalmbach MAKES a sci-fi specific modeler's magazine... I know they make one's for auto and train modelers... Besides, there's at least THREE magazines I know of that are nearly exclusively devoted to sci-fi! Whereas FSM is the only magazine I know of that goes over general, specifically military, models. The only other military model magazines only deal with R/C military models!
Sci-fi models get WAY more publicity, you just have to look! Magazines like FSM are really just the vocal minority...

I've read this in the editorial column in FSM before. They have said the reason there is not more sci-fi is because no one is sending them photos, articles, etc, not because of lack of interest.
Lee

I dunno about the rest of ya'll, but I was mightily disappointed when I found out that Star Trek wasn't real!

Fade to Black...

Yep, me too Blackwolf!
Lee

Star Trek isn't real!? All these years I thought my job was all in my head and I was chief engineer on a Starfleet vessel when I was awake! Now What'll I do?!

Seriously thought, I think FSM Does a great job in presenting a balanced, general overview of the scale modeling hobby. Some of the special intrest modeling magazines go straight over my head due to their overly long and complicated articles about this conversion and that...

I would love to see more heavy industry and agricultural models, but I know its not everyone's thing, still I keep pushing for it steadily but not over intrusively.

That scratchbuilt mine shovel in the current issue was real breath of fresh air even though its not from a kit.

Sci-fi is good stuff, but the fact is, that to get REALLY good kits of Sci-fi subjects, you have to give an arm and a leg, the shirt off your back and possibly your first born to get a garage industry resin or multimedia kit. I,ve seen good models come out of major manufacturers kits but not without a lot of work on the part of the modeler. I gave up on AMT Star Trek stuff years ago. I'm hoping Polar Lights will do a good job on the NX-01 Enterprise to be released this year.

Scale modeling has a lot of angles to get covered by, and they can't always get equal share in a generalized magazine such as FSM. They do what they can with what we give them to work with and I'd say they do very well at what they do.

upnorth, you've got it right on the money.
Lee

Knowuthcha mean, most of the mainstream sci-fi stuff I've had or seen just don't cut it.

The coolest sci-fi models I've seen (and they just HAPPEN to be Star Trek kits!) were little resin jobs. I forget the manufacturer and scale (1/2000?) but for epoxy resin castings, these things ROCKED! Too bad I'm not a real fan of the unreal. Well, actually, it IS a good thing 'cuz they cost way too much and I have enuff toys to spend my money on!

Fade to Black...

I like FSM the way it is with the following exceptions:
- I'd like more content and build-up articles (more is better)
- I'd like more issues (12 vs. 10)

Thanks

Murray

QUOTE: Originally posted by midnightprowler I've read this in the editorial column in FSM before. They have said the reason there is not more sci-fi is because no one is sending them photos, articles, etc, not because of lack of interest. Lee

What about getting someone on staff to take a break from the boring Tank of the Week, and do one of the garage resin kits? I'm not asking for issues full of SciFi, but how about one every 2-3 months?

Tenchi: no, I don't want to do a tank, but if you some SciFi magazines, please post the titles here.

I became a subscriber in 1988 because I picked up the issue with the Klingon Bird of Prey on the cover, way before Ertl released their version. I don't want to argue "chicken vs egg" here, but if the cover is interesting enough, more SciFi fans would buy the magazine. The way it stands now, I'll probably be cancelling my subscription.

I have to second what Midnightprowler said. Sometime back I had a conversation with Terry Thompson (former FSM editor) and the issue of sci-fi was raised. Indeed, it's a case of a lack of submissions. Let's face it, the sci-fi crowd just doesn't seem to be as large as the military, aircraft or automotive factions.

I understand when someone says "boring tank of the week", although I certainly am not of the same opinion. It's a case of personal interest and personal preference. I can't get enuff of things with wings and targets armor and the like, simply because that's my area of interest and "expertise", if you will.

I enjoy seeing the odd sci-fi model everyonce in awhile, but it wouldn't bother me if I didn't see a whole ton of it. I'm not a sci-fi modeler and that's just my personal preference. Besides, sci-fi is deserving of it's own sector. I see it as very different from the other aforementioned modeling genres.

With aircraft, military & civilian vehicles and real space subjects, you usually have to stick to some general standards, guidlines or whatever you want to label it. Paint schemes and markings, although sometimes demanding speculation due to lack of reference material, usually follow a pattern, template or standard.

The same can be said of certain sci-fi subjects. I've seen many of the "tech-manuals" for Star Trek and Star Wars spaceships, vehicles, weapons and such (even had a few of the Star Wars TM's myself! ) and there is a different universe there (pun intended), all in print, but on record nonetheless. Plus there's the actual TV series and films to refer to. So a sci-fi modeler has to do a bit of research if he wants to get NCC 1701D to look just as it did in the TV series, or in one of the movies. Each incarnation may be different, just as a single P-47 may have several different paintjobs during it's operational career.

The difference is that the P-47 existed, USS Enterprise NCC 1701D did not. This opens up a whole world of "what ifs" that may not generally be accepted by aircraft or military modelers. With sci-fi, when it comes down to it, you can generally do ANYTHING you want. If you want to add a modification to a Viper from Battlestar Cattlecar Galactica () who's to say that you're wrong?

To turn the coin back again, the same could also be said about modeling real life subjects. But in that case, the modeler is limited by realistic plausibility. There really are no such limitations in the sci-fi world. Otherwise It wouldn't be called science fiction.

Forgive me for writing so much, I'm an amateur writer and I have a habit of rambling on to work my way to the point, which is this; sci-fi modeling information, as would be presented in a magazine, is best left to those who know sci-fi. Same as aircraft and armor should be left to those who are in the know. FSM seems to have a lack of such sci-fi gurus. (I may be wrong!) As such, the combination of this seeming fact and that of the lack of submissions would seem, at first, to indicate a discriminatory attitude. But I believe that nothing could be farther from the truth and in reality it comes down to, "They can't print it if they ain't got it!".

Given this, I wouldn't blame a sci-fi nut for not picking up a copy of FSM. ("If it ain't got what you wanna see, don't read it!") A sci-fi modeler may just do well to pass up FSM and find something that caters to his interests. I know there are a few good rags out there, but the only one I can think of at the moment is Sci-Fi & Fantasy Models out of the UK.

There are plenty of others that do read the magazine regularly and I am one of them. FSM is not my absolute "favorite" modeling mag, but it is the one I look to for a good cross section of information regarding not only my specific interests in modeling, but also for techniques and ideas in general.

Fade to Black...

blackwolf: I don't agree with your "what if" theory. Models of the "real ships" do exist and that's what we're modeling. Unfortunately, I did attend a contest where a 1701D won its category with a purple and gray color scheme (yikes!). The judges didn't wish to hear my comments regarding the "accuracy", as they saw SciFi modeling as "kids" stuff. I really don't understand the prejudice against SciFi. What about dinosaur models? No one can tell you exactly what colors they were, so does that mean they get the same treatment as SciFI? Just once, I'd like to see one of the master modelers take a SciFI subject, do the research, and come up with something amazing.

FSM has had that once or twice in its pages.

I remember several years ago a fellow wrote a how to article on making AMT's Galileo Shuttle from the original Star Trek series really accurate. Impressive result, and an enjoyable read.

There was also an article from a fellow using an out of production vacuum form model of a Survey Class science ship from Star trek to demonstrate how to strengthen Vac form models with expanding foam. Another enjoyable read and well finished model.

I also recall a spread about another guy that scrathbuilt a huge Original Series Enterprise.

Amongst others was a very good article about weathering sci-fi subjects

On top of all this, sci-fi does make regular visits to FSM's reader Gallery feature.

It may not show up as much as you like Trekdude, but neither do a lot of other angles in the scale modeling hobby. I personally would love to see someone write an article about making AMT's old Caterpillar D8 bulldozer totally accurate, but I ain't seen that.

I'd say when you rule out cars, sci-fi gets better coverage in FSM than most aspects of the civilian world does. I'm almost finished a 1/48 Cessna 172 and when its done I'm going to submit a couple of photos (if I can get a couple of good ones taken with my camera) to the Reader Gallery. By my way of thinking, that would be nearly as much a breath of fresh air as that scratchbuilt mine shovel in this month's edition

And to be honest, cars are barely above sci-fi in terms of coverage.
Lee

C ' mon, you, FSM guys.....!
Why you don ' t fill these pages with Starthings from outta space...?! We want more...!
Why you don' t talk about the yearly Dinosaurs World Champion Cup races...? We ' re A LOT of truly incurably addicted fans over here...!
Why you don ' t care to make the TRUE weekly magazine we need, 300 pages thick, with more articles on the Tibetan Observation Balloon Forces in WW 3...? We, at least my brother & me, ' ll pay up to $ 6 for it...!
BUT, I know, and YOU know, why the FSM gang ' ll NEVER do it...It ' s clear enought ! [:0]
TO KEEP THIS TOPIC FLOWIN'........!
' ve a nice day...!

One could say what we have here is a paradox... not enough sci-fi pics so not enough sci-fi guys buy the mag so not enough pics.. its a vicious cycle. But if you look back over the past four or five years (and I did) Star Trek itself has gotten the lionshare of the representation, much to the shagrin of the Star Wars fans, so we Trekers can't really complain. But I will agree that I think the magazine is a little heavy on the armour (Booo... thats a bad one! ) and I'd like to see more heavy duty stuff, maybe a crane or a loader maybe, just something thats not painted green and makes a big bang when it works.

But in all honesty I don't buy FSM for one genre of modeling
or another I buy it because its a damn good magazine and I've learned a whole lot from its pages and I still am, they gave me the confidence to try scratchbuilding and I've never looked back
thank you FSM, and to all those guys out there that have the attitude of looking down their nose at people who don't model what they do.....up your shaft.

Madd Dawg

I like your way of putting it, Jay..! Same for me, I've learned so much from reading stuff in FSM. My primary interest is airliners, but FSM has allowed me to be tempted with other stuff such as cars, dinos, figures, sculpting, airbrushing, weathering, and scratchbuilding, lighting up models.. I read most of FSM, whether it's about motorbikes, ships, spacecraft, aircraft or AFVs. I read the tips, the questions, the reviews, even the editorial!!! In terms of SF, I'm more a Star Wars fan, rather than a Trekkie, but the many articles Jay was refering to earlier on have taught me a couple of things about dealing with poor kits (let's face it, most Star Wars & Star Trek kits are!), and painting them, for instance..!

At a time I was very much into aircraft, the December 95 issue of FSM made a big impression on me and did change my life. There was an article about a scratchbuilt T3 Christie that really caught my attention and I decided to follow the steps, albeit at a different scale, to build my first scratch AFV.



Next thing I know, someone noticed the model at a show and offered me a job..! I've now scratchbuilt over 200 AFVs for a number of customers in various countries...

So, stop complaining about the lack of this the lack of that in the mag. If you want more of your stuff, write some and by doing so, try to motivate other !

I also get the magazine because it is a all around awesome mag. For more auto cotent, I subscribe to Scale Auto and Model Cars.
Lee

QUOTE: Originally posted by Trekdude blackwolf: I don't agree with your "what if" theory. Models of the "real ships" do exist and that's what we're modeling.

Uh, Trekdude, if you read my post again I think you may discover that that is, in essence, what I said. The deal about the tech-manuals and... well, I'll just paste it for your convenience since simplicity seems to be a plus with this crowd;

The same can be said of certain sci-fi subjects. I've seen many of the "tech-manuals" for Star Trek and Star Wars spaceships, vehicles, weapons and such (even had a few of the Star Wars TM's myself! ) and there is a different universe there (pun intended), all in print, but on record nonetheless. Plus there's the actual TV series and films to refer to. So a sci-fi modeler has to do a bit of research if he wants to get NCC 1701D to look just as it did in the TV series, or in one of the movies. Each incarnation may be different, just as a single P-47 may have several different paintjobs during it's operational career.

Despite having said this, I don't care what anyone says. IF YOU CHOOSE TO DO SO, you can add anything to any sci-fi subject; who's gonna say that it's wrong or that it wasn't possible. That's the base idea behind science fiction! To make the impossible possible. Modelers of reality-based subjects have no such luxury.

In regards to your comment about a "master" doing something amazing, a friend of mine (who can certainly be considered as a master; he's now somewhat nationally if not world-reknowned and has had several feature articles in FSM - you probably didn't pick up any of those issues, his BORING tanks were usually on the cover) did one of the old Nichimo... I forget what they're all called. Anyhoo, he did one of those robot Mech-Warrior deals that were modeled on the "what if" of a 21st Century German military. (I think! ) He built this thing and put a neat variation of an ambush scheme on it. At one show, the sci-fi judges told him it was done very nicely but that they would never have painted it that way! I just laughed my a** off at that.

And last, but not least; dinosaurs. It is true that we have no real way of knowing what color an Allosaurus was versus a Dilophosaurus. But educated guesses can be made based on the type of animal it was, and by observing animals of today.

Again, they key difference between something like a Dinosaur and a Federation Starship is the fact that Dinosaurs actually existed. Therefore there are very real clues out there. Yes, film models exist of the the Enterprise and those are the basis of what you model. But seeing as they are fictitious vehicles, who's to stop you from making changes if you so desire? Hell, I could make some funkified modifications to an Me 262, but I'm limited to what's plausible. Sci-fi modelers are not, I don't care what anyone says. ANYTHING is plausible in the world of sci-fi, that's why it's called science fiction...

Fade to Black...

Blackwolfscd....

Bob will hunt you down for calling his tanks "boring"...

OK Trekkers, Trekkees or whatever you wanna be called, I have a serious question. If light and radio travel at approx. 186,000 miles per second and Warp 9 is hundreds or thousands of times faster than light speed, why does the Enterprise ever radio Starfleet? Wouldn't it just be faster to go there and ask the question?

And wouldn't it be really cool if it turned out that the dinosaurs were all Dayglo pink and bright lime?!?!

QUOTE: Originally posted by blackwolfscd QUOTE: Originally posted by Trekdude blackwolf: I don't agree with your "what if" theory. Models of the "real ships" do exist and that's what we're modeling. Uh, Trekdude, if you read my post again I think you may discover that that is, in essence, what I said. The deal about the tech-manuals and... well, I'll just paste it for your convenience since simplicity seems to be a plus with this crowd . . I don't care what anyone says. ANYTHING is plausible in the world of sci-fi, that's why it's called science fiction... Fade to Black...

What you said is contradictory, and no, ANYTHING is not plausible in science fiction. "Anything" might be plausible in fantasy, and it looks like you should learn the difference before spouting off. Your "I don't care what anyone says" statement is pretty childish also.

MarkIv, the reason The Enterprise uses radio is that it is Subspace radio, a form of radio much faster than warp drive.
Lee

Trekdude,

Looks like someone needs to buy a ticket for a trip on the clue train.

Contradictory statements? If you had the mental fortitude, you would be able to understand what was written. I suggest you read and try to correctly interpret before YOU spout off, my friend. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt up until now, but you've simply proven that you just plain don't get it.

Childish? The very statement you made makes you no less childish than you accuse me of being.

Please in no way take this as my attitude toward sci-fi modelers or, more specifically, Trekkies. It's just my attitude towards an individual who cannot accept that his is not the only viable and/or reasonable opinion on a certain subject. Or, seemingly, in general for that matter.

I respect your right to have an opinion. I also recognize that you have the right to be obstinate and narrow-minded. I always try to look at things from every possible point of view, maybe you should weigh similar consideration for the opinions of others before you shoot off at the mouth and dig a deeper hole for yourself in the field of foolery.

Warm Personal Regards

Fade to Black...

MK IV,

'Twas not I that called Bob's tanks boring, 'twas our know-all see-all friend. ( I was agreeing with the guy too, that's what gets me! Oh well, as the Refreshments tune goes; "Everybody knows, the world is full of stupid people... C'mon kids, sing along! You too Trekdude!)

Anyhoo, I've said worse to Bob to his face! LOL [:0] He's not my closest friend, but he's a good one nonetheless.

Fade to Black...

Blackwolf, just give up my friend. I can see where this is going to end up... No need to get upset about this, I think. Your points are clear (to me anyway) and obviously some people will not accept someone else's opinion. You and I take FSM for what it's worth, a good all around modeling magazine from which one can learn, be amazed, be tempted... There will always be a minority who can not see beyond the fact that whatever they are doing is not whatever everybody else is doing, and can't take that simple fact for granted, or learn, be amazed or tempted by it...

Domi

Yeah, not long ago we did have a few threads about civility, right?

DJ,

Thanks for the advice but I'll proceed as I see fit, even though I had not planned to devote much more time or energy to this guy. Besides, I LOVE messing with people who just ask for it. I'm generally easy going and very receptive, 'tis a shame that some others ain't as well. C'este la vie...

Upnorth,

I thought I was being TOO civil. When necessary, I always try to stick it to folks in a polite manner, I don't wanna upset any bleeding heart types out there.

Fade to Black...