Off-Topic Discussion area removed

QUOTE: Originally posted by M1abramsRules it's a shame when we have a flame war on the topic brought about by them.......

QUOTE: Originally posted by lilBEAR No I said God gave me the right of free will and you must use logical thinking to be able to have free will!!!!

QUOTE: At least I thought those that are so offended can understand that sometimes things come out the wrong way!! So I meant to write think for myself and have free will instead!!! Who are you to judge, MR. Dunn?

QUOTE: I didn't say I have a right to post what ever I want!! I have a right to my opinions due to free will and the intelligence to think for myself which god had bestowed upon all of us....... So I thought?

QUOTE: while I'm fighting for what I believe in!!

QUOTE: So let's stick with discussion about the OT section being removed instead of conducting your personal attacks on me!!!

QUOTE: You need to take a look at your self before you judge others!!! Have a beautiful day, my fellow modeller!!!!

QUOTE: Originally posted by lilBEAR Can I post that!! What If they disagree with my god given right to think for myself and actually form my own opinion instead of kowtowing down before those who claim they know the way down the righteous path and If I choose not to!! I will be sure to burn in hell!! I think you are confusing your right to think for yourself with a supposed right to post whatever you want to here. Let me explain something to you. God did not give you the right to post whatever you want on the FSM message boards. FSM gave you the right to post messages on their message board, and they have the right to regulate what can be discussed here in their sole discretion. Query, where do people get it in their heads that they have the right to say and do whatever they want, whenever they want? Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 1:43 PM Oh Yes Let Erase the Whole Thread because Ev1 builds military vehicles like Larry over there!!! Those who think this cancellation is Okay without consulting with the adult members of this forum. If anything at least ban any sort of political debate!! They put so much thought into this for all the different types of modelers out there, to delete the whole Forum Topic!! I think it a disgraceful and cowardly to do so with out a discussion or a chance to defend ourselves (the people who CHOSE to read the OT section)!! So here we are having " an impassioned argument with" Children who know what is right for all the hundreds of modelers apart of this COMMUNITY!!! Those who are apart of the Elite Kalmbach Publishing Co. up in Waukesha,WI will be sure to steer us in the proper direction and set a wonderful example for those that use to really enjoy this forum!!! Sorry that all us that think for ourselves and have opinions on World News are too childish to grace your presence!! I too shall bow away from this stifling site!! I don't feel comfortable having to second quess everything I write!! " Can I post this, Lawence? Can I post that!! What If they disagree with my god given right to think for myself and actually form my own opinion instead of kowtowing down before those who claim they know the way down the righteous path and If I choose not to!! I will be sure to burn in hell!! I hope one of those "moderators" out there can comprehend some of the sarcasm and attempts in vain to enlighten your own way of thinking I am using!! Maybe there might be a chance where you could even invision yourself in a modellers shoes who doesn't know any thing about military vehicles, planes, ships and so forth!! This modellers deals in Classic Automobiles and dabbles in Figurine work!! I don't have anything pertinent to say in most of the modeling subjects other then general issues!! So I read them all anyway in an attempt to learn & when I get to the bottom of the page, I enjoy haveing a good laugh and stimulating conversion with a wonderful bunch of men!!! All of which have a sense of humor!! FSM where is your sense of humor, logic, rationality, and fairness? Those OT subjects stimulated my brain waves!! Made me think and laugh!! If the administators have a problem with sharing brilliant ideas and enjoying themselves at the same time!! I Find Every One Of You GUILTY OF HYPOCRISY!!!! That conclusion has been proven true just by your own "FORUM POLICY"!!!! Kelley G. Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 9:28 AM Wisely done, FSM. This is a modelling forum. Let it be so, and not soured by political discussion. Once or twice, when my favorite model forums were slow, I would pop into the OT forum and would promptly go into threads in which I found opinions I strongly disagreed with. I felt a kind of strange compulsion to post a different opinion, and it sometimes became contentious. These posters would then give me a list of reasons why "people like me" have these opinions, and why our opinions aren't to be taken seriously by "real Americans." That kind of thing. And so it went from there, straight down the drain. And there was no good reason for all the effort I devoted to it -- it was like having an impassioned argument with a child, or a garden snail. You know -- in the middle of making a point you look down and see the little eyestalks wiggling around and you ask yourself, "what am I doing?" Anyway, after having repeated run-ins with one or two people on the OT furm, I nosed around a little bit in the other forums to see what they were posting, so that I could maybe soften my opinion of them a bit, and the amazing thing was, they weren't really posting much anywhere else. I wonder, why would you come to a modeling forum to discuss ... politics? Isn't that kind of like going to a political forum to discuss modeling? I tried hard to segregate what I read in the OT forum from my posting on modeling, and it mostly worked, but it's just easier and better if the forum simply be about modeling, something we can all agree on. You know, that tanks are the most worthy model subjects -- the only worthy subjects, I mean. Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 8:52 AM is it that.....?????? "you can please some of the people, all of the time...... & you can please all of the people some of the time...... but, you can't please all of the people all of the time....." i think that's the way it goes.......at least in spirit anyways..... when there is a controversy.........why does good sense from either perspective fall on deaf ears ? Reply Edit fightnjoe Member since September 2011 Posted by fightnjoe on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 7:07 AM sadly as people come back from vacations and such they will see the changes that have taken place. some will feel slighted. please before you leave the forums, take a step back and realize that we are still the same people. we have not changed. the new format will take a little getting used to but i am told that is how the veterans felt when the ot forum was added also. let the dust settle before you decide what your course of action is. joe Veterans, Thank You For Your Sacrifices, Never To Be Forgotten Where you can find me: Workbench on FaceBook  Google Plus  YouTube Reply diggeraone Member since July 2003 From: Ozarks of Arkansas Posted by diggeraone on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 1:10 AM I have just come back off the road to see that you have taken the OT off.I know that some of these discussions got heavy and the games were maybe getting out of hand. But that forum was like a breath of fersh air.I got to know a lot of people and there ideals.It was like being at a pickle barrel at the genreal store or at the local coffee shop. I really did enjoy this and wish that you would not remove it.Even thought it got heated at times,it did teach me at lest about people and how they think.A lot of you all were like family to me esspeically when I have very few friends.I am sorry to see this happen.Digger After seeing two e-mails from a few people who I hold dear,I will stay and see what happens.I am just as gulity for getting involed in this mess as some of you.But I still liked the thoughts and ideals of others. Put all your trust in the Lord,do not put confidence in man.PSALM 118:8 We are in the buisness to do the impossible..G.S.Patton Reply Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 12, 2004 7:48 PM 13-07-04 This really saddens me. In fact, it horrofies me. I know that from any get together I have ever attended for any club or hobby I have been involved in, there was always discussion about everything. It helped people interested in the same things bond and understand each other and sure, topics were controversial, and not everyone agreed, but it was all part of the social event. This is a form of censorship. It's like in the 50's when you couldn't dance too close to each other as it was considered dirty and sinful. We can't discuss O/T topics like adults? What next? Nobody who makes tanks can make aeroplanes? No E.U. participation? No criticism for fear of upsetting the modeller? Do you not realise that you have been effectively muzzled? Sure, it's a modelling forum, but people like ot talk and shoot the breeze about other things while doing the kits etc.... and not just about kits. So, if in the middle of a topic, someone cracks wise about Jay Leno or the Queen's haircut, will that post-reply be deleted? Thought America was the land of the free. ( but only if we say it is and only if we approve ...... hmmmmmm, where have I heard that before?) I remember a term I heard somewhere. Thought police. I am going to have to think long and hard about this. Liam Reply Edit Aaronw Member since September 2015 From: The Redwood Empire Posted by Aaronw on Saturday, July 10, 2004 6:55 PM I'm new here and never even poked my head into the OT area (actually the removal may have been before my arrival, I didn't check the date of the first post). What surpises me is that people would feel so strongly that they would quit the forum over it. I come here to get information, trade building advice etc. I find being able to ask how to do something, post a pic of my latest project or check out what someone else is building really keeps me motivated to build. Along the way in this site and some others I've also had the chance to find out a little something about some of the other posters as a bonus but I wonder why someone would leave a modeling site over an OT areas removal. I did not at all get the feeling from the first post that the moderators were going to come in and edit any and all non modeling discussion, just that which was likely to take away from the reason the site exists. I could be wrong but I've found most site moderators have enough trouble editing vulgar and blatently offensive posts so I'd really be surprised to find them editing a post because somebody includes something personal or a joke into their post, but I could be wrong maybe they will get a Class A rivit counter who will delete pics with incorrect camo patterns and such hope not though. Reply FreedomEagle1953 Member since December 2012 Posted by FreedomEagle1953 on Saturday, July 10, 2004 1:35 PM I didn't poke my head into the OT forum often ... not often at all ... I don't think I ever posted there at all. I just didn't care to get involved in some of the topics and threads that were in that forum ... but, then that was my choice. I do believe that when things get out of hand ... adjustments should be made. It is truely sad that some have left and perhaps others will too ... but, as for myself ... I will accept what has happened and move on with my life and my hobby. I have always enjoyed my time here in the FSM Community ... and will continue to do so ... thanks for letting me post my 2 cents ! FreedomEagle1953 Chicago, IL area "keep on building 'em ... but don't glue your fingers together" Reply Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, July 10, 2004 11:16 AM Tanks... Reply Edit subfixer Member since March 2004 From: Spartanburg, SC Posted by subfixer on Friday, July 9, 2004 5:49 AM It was a good move, I couldn't agree with it more. I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Reply Quagmyre Member since December 2003 From: and just won't go away. Posted by Quagmyre on Thursday, July 8, 2004 8:28 PM It's all about professionalism, respecting others opinions, keeping your cool, and not taking or making anything personal. My grad school did the same thing. We had some great, age old, debates on religion, but WOW! People really couldn't keep their emotions at bay to seriously continue the debate. Numerous other forum discussion areas have been removed for people failing to adhere to the aforementioned principles. Of course, if people could always adhere to those principles what would we model? Current and Subsequent Projects: 1/48 scale Tamiya P-47 "Razorback" - Complete 1/48 scale Testors/Lone Star Models PT-22 Recruit - 20% Complete  1/48 scale Monogram C-47 Skytrain - Not Started Reply paulnchamp Member since January 2003 From: Warwick, RI Posted by paulnchamp on Thursday, July 8, 2004 7:07 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Keyworth Personally, I think that the editors placed a great deal of thought into their decision before acting. It wasn't a rash or impulsive act, but an action executed after some perceptive observations, as they alluded to in the posting at the head of this thread. I agree completely. Paul Paul "A man's GOT to know his limitations." Reply Keyworth Member since January 2003 From: NE Georgia Posted by Keyworth on Thursday, July 8, 2004 6:03 PM Change is inevitable in every aspect of all we do. Change took place on FSM, and not everyone's happy; I understand that. But for all those with "freedom of speech" issues, please realize that this forum really operates at the whim of Kalmbach Publishers. They ultimately decided what appears on the forum pages; if you see it, it's ok. If you don't, it isn't. Pretty basic stuff. The staff realized that their own rules weren't being followed, so they decided to enforce them. A few members didn't care for it and left. That's unfortunate, but that's also expected with change. It angers some, frightens some, while others wait to see what develops and ride out the storm, metaphorically speaking. Personally, I think that the editors placed a great deal of thought into their decision before acting. It wasn't a rash or impulsive act, but an action executed after some perceptive observations, as they alluded to in the posting at the head of this thread. Me? I'm going to keep reading the posts offered here, and offer my own modest thought from time to time. I gain far more than I contribute, and I still think that FSM is the best place to follow my passion for modelling. My two cents worth. - Ed "There's no problem that can't be solved with a suitable application of high explosives" Reply Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 8, 2004 5:51 PM I am still new to this site,so I don't really know exactly what was being said. I tend to avoid "items" like that.It kind of happened in a model club I was in once where the subject "jumped" from a modeling project to views of a different nature altogether.Was not a pretty sight, especially for younger modelers.Everyone is entitled to their opinion on some subjects as long as it is used at the right event. At modeling, there should be modeling discussion(museum trips,airshows,etc.....)where one can learn or get inspiration for that next project.Just let me know what I can do to help. I am here to learn from all of you. john swann Reply Edit therriman Member since January 2003 From: Central MI Posted by therriman on Thursday, July 8, 2004 10:37 AM I agree with J-Hulk all the way. Sad to see it go. But it had kind of gotten out of hand. While sad to see it go, on should remember that this is not a political forum. Some of the stuff in there was getting out of hand. I will do my level best to follow the rules. But I may slip up once in a while, after all I am only "Hu-Mon" (to quote the Ferengi). Tim H. "If your alone and you meet a Zero, run like hell. Your outnumbered" Capt Joe Foss, Guadalcanal 1942 Real Trucks have 18 wheels. Anything less is just a Toy! I am in shape. Hey, Round is a shape! Reality is a concept not yet proven. Reply Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 8, 2004 9:41 AM There are some good comments here, and some legitimate questions that I should try to answer, but......I've got a bunch of important magazine deadlines in the next few days, so it'll be a while before I can respond properly. Nevertheless, I'm checking in to read your comments. Thanks, folks! Reply Edit J-Hulk Member since February 2003 From: Tochigi, Japan Posted by J-Hulk on Thursday, July 8, 2004 8:50 AM Sorry to see that it had to come to something as drastic as the removal of the OT forum. I have mixed feelings about it. Personally, I was never offended by anythng there, but that is primarily because I never clicked on the controversial topics. I did enjoy the positive stuff that went on there. Perhaps the "Odds and Ends" forum will incorporate the best of what the OT forum offered, without the harsh bits. No matter what it becomes, I strongly urge any member thinking about cancelling his or her account because of all this to deeply reconsider. I don't want to see anyone on either side of this thing leave the forums. ~Brian Reply oldhooker Member since July 2003 From: Piedmont Triad, NC (USA) Posted by oldhooker on Thursday, July 8, 2004 7:25 AM Yes, ...........curiosity drew me into the OT discussions also, and although some did get heated IN THERE, over in the Modeling threads, the same people would exchange idea's, photos of builds, and compliments with no apparent hard feelings or complaints. It was almost like... the OTF was a sanctuary where everyone could just be there self, you know, real life/world discussions and debates. It offered a place where I could pull up a stool beside the stove, with others of like mind, and be a part of the community when I am taking a break from modeling. Everybody needs a break once in a while. I'll miss seeing Seangrb, woody, sahickerson, and Shermanfreak around however. It is sad that the complaints of a few whiners have to bring about such drastic change, and loss. Politics, Religion, War etc etc.... those are subjects normally discussed amongst people who are concerned or just plain scared of all the things going on around them. Through the threads, insight is gained on both sides of an issue, which always made me breath a little bit easier, especially knowing that I am discussing them with Friends.... and like I said, tomorrow the same people would be comparing notes about a canopy or wheel strut on some kit that's giving them problems, in one of the Modeling groups. A Moderator could insure no one resorts to cursing, or personal attacks...... but the owners have obviously made their choice, and I'll respect that. Frank Reply Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 8, 2004 6:28 AM Congratulations on what i'm sure was a difficult & controversial decision...... a few of the topcs were interesting.........enlighening...........and provacative.......but, it only takes one or two to create a malignancy. Reply Edit lolok Member since March 2003 From: On the way to AC+793888 Posted by lolok on Thursday, July 8, 2004 4:57 AM I can see the point particularly where politics is concerned.Some posts where getting really heavy. I will miss the silliness though. Lost over here in Warsaw I looked foreward to hearing the funny stories happening in other peoples hang outs. Jim Ryan Ex-Pat Limey in warsaw.Poland. " MENE,MENE,TEKEL U PHARSIN" Reply 12 JOIN OUR COMMUNITY! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. 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