Newsstand buyers no longer accepted?

Gentlemen,

A couple points.

One, it's no secret the forums are available to anyone with Internet access. 

Two, non-subscribers are not "denied access to anything else on the site." Sure, they don't have access to the kit review archive, bonus review photos, the Modeling Products Directory, and various online extras.

But ... they do have access to other features, such as our monthly reader photo gallery, some online extras (like the recently published review of Moebius Models' Dr. Jekyll as Mr. Hyde), and a smattering of how-to stories (like how to build Tamiya's T-34 in a weekend).

Also, we value our newsstand customers greatly and have not forgotten about them. This whole Internet thing, to some degree, is a work in progress, one we're constantly trying to improve. Rest assured, the top of our priority list reads: How can we give more to the newsstand buyer?

Kelly, FSM

Hi Gerald,

Actually you don't need to have ever bought a single issue of FSM to be able to access the forums. The forums are (for now at least - shhh, don't give them any ideas ) entirely outside the scope of the "subscriber only access" issue.

Cheers,

Phil

Gerald,

If you get your copy of FSM at the LHS you can still access the forums, but you become a less than a valuable customer being denied access to anything else on the site.

 I never used the "special benefit areas of secret limited access" even when I was a subscriber, so not having them is not a real loss to me, but I believe it would be more work, not less to have two seperate lists of customers. Those that subscribe and those that do not, so as to decide who gets the special benefit areas of secret limited access.

(Love your products BTW, can I say that?)

D

I guess I'm missing something. I look at having full access to the forum as a feature and benefit of being a subscriber. Just as it is when one is a member of a shoppers club (ie SAMS CLUB). Everyone is free to come in for a looksee, but only "members" have the privilage of making purchases. There are other forums that require you register, in this case they want you to subscribe. Whether it is the correct decision or not that is up to the host to decide, it is theirs and theirs alone.

As far as them having my email (someone mentioned) so they can send me what ever when ever, I haven't had any issue witht that. I see a newsletter every couple of weeks or so. If you are concerned about getting spammed, then I suggest you establish a separate email account such as a gmail, yahoo or msn. Let those fill up not your primary personal or business inbox.

My subscription came due just this month. I had to decide whether I wanted to continue or just pick up a copy at the local bookshop (many LHS are dropping magazines as a cost savings measure...unsold copies are no longer returnable as they once were). It was because of the access to this forum that I did renew my subscription...seems I would miss you guys an awful lot. I view it as a must have benefit...unlike the free AM/FM radio another magazine is offering...one that only picks up three stations! Or a calculator that loses its buttons on the first use.

What's the tagline..."Membership has its privileges". AMERICAN EXPRESS

I am but one voice. 

Not quite sure I understand:

"The question of subscriber codes and access to more of the Web site is fairly complicated. . ."

So drop the codes and the subscribers only access and it will be very simple, No?

Wouldn't this eliminate some of the limitations of "time and expense"?

A reader who prefers to get their issue of FSM at the LHS or book store is less valuable to Kalmbach than one who receives their issue tattered in the mail box several days later than the LHS or book store?

The customer isn't always right, but the customer is always the customer.

D

Guys Guys Guys!

Chopperfan is right about bad news traveling like wildfire -- or, as Dad used to say, the only thing that cuts better than a good fiddle is a bad fiddle.

The question of subscriber codes and access to more of the Web site is fairly complicated, and what we do out there in cyberspace is has its own limitations of time and expense. Plus, believe it or not, our first order of business is putting the magazine in print. I think the Internet's great, but if I preferred it to being a magazine editor I'd have spent the last 20-odd years very differently.  

We value your opinions and we often agree. If for any reason we have to take an issue "upstairs" it will be to go to bat for you, the reader.

One person has noted Matt's invitation to contact him directly, and I would encourage any of you to do so.  

So, please, enough about being locked out or banned from this forum for speaking your mind. The only way that will happen is if you directly violate our simple set of rules -- and even then you get several wimpy warnings. In general, you have to vigorously demonstrate real "brass" and a resolute determination to be unreasonable before we throw up our hands and let the  guards escort you out.

Thanks for reading -- and keep yakkin'!

Mark 

say bgrigg check out the difference in the type of responses  givin by  M.U. in this forum vs

the one in this link

/forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=801283

Viper Has The Lead wrote:

If i subscribe, FSM actually receive less money.  Mick C.

i am not saying your wrong because i don't know their actual profit margin, but as part of the newstand price you have 3 people or groups making money, fsm,the magazine distributor,and the newstand owner. so i venture to say that fsm is probably making the same money either way  

i wish more of the lhs would sell it so i don't have to go to the newstand (and while i am there i might buy a model or paint etc  giving the lhs more money

DURR wrote:

but there is truth in what i say  ALL the other places have better reviews

Very true, I rely on reviews from other sites which are far better, more comprehensive, include many photos of the sprues, decals, PE etc. and are better organized.... in comparison the FSM reviews seem amateurish and just fluff, although I like the direction they've been heading into the past few issues.  I'd list some of the great review sites that are out there, but the management here frowns upon talking about other websites in the modeling community.

As far as I'm concerned, the online only content isn't really anything special  .  

sorry Bill just a bad attempt to cheer you up

but there is truth in what i say  ALL the other places have better reviews

hi guys  it's been a while

i must say that while i understand (the principle) of what your bringing out  by not having it your not missing all that much. i trust info from you guys more than the reviews

the reviews are nothing special at all. think about it  when you go to some of the online dealers(no names) and you look at a model it may have a review or three  attached to it, check it out when was the last time you saw a fsm review attached to a model at one of those sights  .

and those sights advert. in the mag too   so as i say not missing much

Bingo. 

Good thing this isn't the only magazine or forum that is out there, perish the thought.....  Business is business, and given that we can choose where to spend our money and where not to.  That's a message that will get through loud and clear. 

bgrigg has nailed the core issue of this thead - once again, FSM has yanked something with no warning, no explanation and no appeal. Matthew Usher makes the no appeal part very, very clear in his comments above. Anyone here remember some of the things we used to be able to do with relative ease before the "new, improved" forums came along? That's just one example.

Am I whining? Some would characterize it as such. But this ain't Cosmo or Good Housekeeping. We are not "the masses" who can be jerked around at will because there are millions of us and some other poor schumck is always willing to fill the gap. This is FSM, and the atmosphere is (or rather was) more like an old neighborhood bar, with a feeling of intimacy and smallness that instantly made you feel comfortable. If they keep up this relentless drive to the bottom line to the exclusion of all else, FSM is going to lose what remains of that atmosphere, because they will have driven off the very people who created it. And when that happens, we all lose.

Well AJ, that's an interesting viewpoint, and one which I am fully aware of. However, I can't agree that we're wrong.

Since December 2005 newsstand buyers have been able to access the online perks via a printed code. That code was valid for a fixed length of time, and to continue accessing the content, they had to keep buying the magazine. That has been taken away from them, without even so much as an explanation. Hardly an enticement for people to open their wallets. 

Advertisers do not solely base their buying of ads on the subscription base, but take into account the entire circulation. A larger subscription base is a good thing for sure, but overall they just want to get their name out in front of as many people as possible. Not only that but they are interested in targeted markets. MRC isn't interested in getting their ads in Good Housekeeping, as that magazine (which has a humongous circulation compared to FSM) doesn't attract buyers of models. They are not going to turn up their noses at people who only buy three magazines per year. In other words, if one modeling magazine sells 1,000,000 copies per month, but only has a subscription base of 100,000, and that is competing with another modeling magazine that has 200,000 subscribers but only sells 500,000 magazines, they will opt for the larger circulation. Well, actually they'll buy ads in both magazines and try to entice the full 1,500,000 readers, and try to leverage the price downwards by pointing out the smaller circulation! By the way, I've sold ads for magazines before and know first hand what a cut-throat business it is!

My point is if FSM/Kalmbach think this is going to encourage cherry pickers to plunk down their coin for a subscription, they're wrong. Like many decisions made today in business, they have only looked at the bottom line, and not listened to their customer base. If anything, this will likely result in a loss of buyers and subscribers.

Most modelers stick to a narrow focus (I know one guy who only does Shermans), and they're just not interested in a magazine that predominately show aircraft or German armor. You see that time and time again on the forums: not enough tanks & too many planes vs. too many tanks & not enough space craft vs. what about cars?

For FSM to succeed, they have to please as many people as possible each and every month, and I see this a step in the wrong direction. The best way to increase your subscription base is not remove perks from newsstand buyers, but to increase the quality of the publication. Look at me. Right now I subscribe and I don't like the trend. This issue has caused me to rethink renewing my subscription, and I know that I'm not alone in that.

I fear that in one sense you are quite correct. They are more concerned with the income they receive from advertisers, than the content of their magazine or the wishes of their readers. And that's a shame.

Not having spoken before on this topic...

Gents, I'm afraid most of you are wrong. FSM/Kalmbach is a business. Their job is to make money. They make money by selling advertising. They sell advertising by showing propective advertisers how many people subscribe, not how many magazines go out to the newsstand/hobby shop. The more subscribers, the more desirable a venue for advertising, the more they can charge.

It is in their best interest to encourage subscriptions whether by a per issue discount or by making the website more valuable to their subscribers or both. I'm sure they sat at a meeting and weighed the potential loss of a few forum members who are newstsand/hobby shop buyers vs the encouragement of getting more people to subscribe.

I will admit that I rarely use the online content available to subscribers. But not using something and losing access to something is two different things. As Joni Mitchell said "you don't know what you've got, till it's gone".

There are two items that can only be accessed by subscribers now, and that newsstand buyers are losing: Online reviews and Model Products Directory. The online reviews go back to January 1996, so that we can access things we may not have the magazine for (I only go back as far as May 2005, for instance). The Model Products Directory is perhaps a bit more helpful, as you can search for a subject and find all the various makers in all the various scales (or books, CDs and tools).

IMHO newsstand buyers should also have access to the same things as subscribers, but only for as long as the magazine they bought is current. If you want to access it in the future, make sure you pay for that future magazine as well. That way no-one loses, FSM sells magazines and lookie-loos are encouraged to buy.

I've never understood why someone (G V) feels the need to post in this (or any) thread when they have absolutely nothing to contribute to the conversation.  If you're not interested in the topic, then stay the out of the thread and stop bashing the people who are debating the issues.

Now... back to the topic at hand.  I'm curious how many of you use the online content here (other than the forums themselves obviously).  I don't because there is nothing new online to access that isn't already in the magazine, unless I'm missing something here....

mfsob wrote:

Now bgrigg, let's not insult the bridges. I mean, they have feelings too!

Good advice. I'll stop treating them as if they're <snigger, snort> arch enemies!

gulfstreamV wrote:

Bgrigg wrote: Why do you care? I'm doing it because I think it's unfair. So crawl back under your bridge. Because I do care, and the troll thing when all else fails.

GulfstreamV. Flame me all you want. But, a lot of very good and informative modelers left this forum because of morons like you.

Hit the "report abuse" button in the lower right hand corner. I don't care. I'm tired of your attitude. I checked your profile and looked at your previous posts. And, by far, the majority of them had nothing positive to say. All you seem to do is come to a thread and try your damndest to tick somebody off.

Now, read the title of this particular section of the forums. "Suggestions and Feedback"! All that anyone here has done is offer suggestions to the FSM heirarchy, except you! All you have done is try your best to trash any and everything Bill and others have said. 

Go away! Please!! 

Bgrigg wrote:

Why do you care? I'm doing it because I think it's unfair. So crawl back under your bridge.