Buy Sell Trade??

EdGrune wrote:

 

LOL well put EdGrune. It was worth a shot for me. I guess Ill check out some other sites for B/S/T needs. Finescale is still my favourite site for having my models critiqued and advice and tips though.

Take care. 

 

I was toying with fixing a B/S/T area for my 1/144 census since a lot of it goes in and oop. No feed back on the idea yet.

 

I was the moderator of the Buy/Sell forum and the bad trader was the Armor Editor of the site. My knowledge of the matter comes first hand and I tried to act as intermediary to get these resolved. The member/editor left the site and was tracked to a paintball website where he was being accused of similar misdeeds.

He used the "lost in the mail", "bad Canadian postal service", "perhaps it is stuck in customs" excuses for the models. Because he was a staff member, people gave him the benefit of the doubt. It wasn't until I had received a couple of complaints that contained identical situations that I informed the webmaster to look into the problem. After that, all the folks who had bad deals with him came out of the woodwork. So many members chalked it up to an honest mistake until dozens came out with similar stories, all involving the same man. Most were cheated out of a kit or two during a trade. They sent the item, but never received the promised kit.

I looked up his profile on the Armorama website, http://modelgeek.kitmaker.net/user.php?op=userinfo&uname=ex-royal , he used to have a profile picture of him aiming a paintball gun at the camera, but it must have been deleted when he was removed from staff.

One of the more tech savvy members tracked him to the paintball site where members there were complaining about him cheating there. I did visit that site at the time, but don't recall the site off hand (not a paintballer and was amazed at the price the equipment costs).

It's proabably coincidental that modeling and paintballing were his areas of interest. I tried to look for the original thread at Armorama, but it looks like the older sale threads have been deleted.

While I can't speak to the "Paintball websites", I can say I've seen a substantial number of discussions focused on at least two (and possibly more) infamous scammers on numerous model websites. I personally do not feel the FSM forum needs a buy/sell/trade area because there are an adequate number of other modeling sites who allow these transactions. I can also completely understand why FSM would choose not to permit trading or selling on this forum and respect their decision.

 

Rob Gronovius wrote:

There are many sites with Buy/Sell/Trade forums. The only ones that get cluttered with fluff are ones that do not have a separate dedicated B/S/T forum. One of the problems I have seen with B/S/T forums are the appearance of bad traders and flat out thieves. There are several well-known crooks who pop up every so often on the various modeling websites, cheat a half dozen guys out of a few hundred dollars worth of kits, then disappear when the victims start complaining. On a commercial site such as this, the victims might start hounding the company to make up their losses. One of the biggest crooks took a dozen or so members of Armorama for kits worth over a thousand dollars. You may have heard about him, he also was linked to the same sort of scam on paintball websites.

I never heard of him on any paintball forums, although some people do get suckered into scams anywhere, not just forums. And the person selling the kit doesnt need to send until payment is recieved. May I ask for a source to support the facts you stated? I dont mean to jump to any conclusions but honestly to me it seems a little far fetched that the same guy just happened to rip off that many kits and also scam paintball websites, the two things I mention, and Ive heard absolutely nothing of it ever.

People are blowing this way out of proportion and only looking at the worst that could happen. All I hear is that its a lot of work and people will get scammed. HIRE MODERATORS, they dont need to be paid. Most sites dont pay their moderators, its a voluntary position and also somewhat of an honor to be one. I could see the forums growing in size and online member numbers increasing with this in place. Some forums have member feedback inplace, you go to a feedback section and start a thread with your username. People can post in the thread that youve dealt with and when you are thinking about having a transaction just search the name.

I can already tell most of you are gonna be thinking "well what if he/she doesnt have any feedback posted yet?". Its a judgement call I admit but ask for payment first and when payment is recieved leave feedback in the thread for him. The ball needs to get rolling somehow. If your afraid of losing hundreds of dollars dont sell anything worth hundreds of dollars, test it out with a few old half finished kits you wanna get rid of, build up eachothers feedback. Paintballers and bikers, who are mostly made up of young adults and kids, are responsible enough to make $5-$5000 deals?

Anyways thats all I have to say for now. I dont wanna sweat too much over this. 

Rob Gronovius wrote:

There are many sites with Buy/Sell/Trade forums. The only ones that get cluttered with fluff are ones that do not have a separate dedicated B/S/T forum. One of the problems I have seen with B/S/T forums are the appearance of bad traders and flat out thieves. There are several well-known crooks who pop up every so often on the various modeling websites, cheat a half dozen guys out of a few hundred dollars worth of kits, then disappear when the victims start complaining. On a commercial site such as this, the victims might start hounding the company to make up their losses. One of the biggest crooks took a dozen or so members of Armorama for kits worth over a thousand dollars. You may have heard about him, he also was linked to the same sort of scam on paintball websites.

This is true, Rob. I, myself, have done a few trades from other forums. I try to check with long-time members and traders before I offer a trade or make a buy. It has paid off, so far. I have even had deals come up where other members have volutarilly vouched for the trader/seller without any requests to do so.

I can understand Matt's position. They would have to have the forum moderated 24/7 and that would be hard to do.   

There are many sites with Buy/Sell/Trade forums. The only ones that get cluttered with fluff are ones that do not have a separate dedicated B/S/T forum.

One of the problems I have seen with B/S/T forums are the appearance of bad traders and flat out thieves. There are several well-known crooks who pop up every so often on the various modeling websites, cheat a half dozen guys out of a few hundred dollars worth of kits, then disappear when the victims start complaining. On a commercial site such as this, the victims might start hounding the company to make up their losses.

One of the biggest crooks took a dozen or so members of Armorama for kits worth over a thousand dollars. You may have heard about him, he also was linked to the same sort of scam on paintball websites.

We've considered this kind of area on the forum, but I don't think you're going to see it anytime soon.

As I've mentioned before, FSM and Kalmbach have a very strict policy when it comes to advertising.
If one of our advertisers fails to meet your expectations and deliver what they promised, let our customer service department know. Our readers are the most important thing to us, and if someone who's advertising in our magazine isn't treating your failrly, let us know and we'll step in on your behalf. We'll make sure the situation gets resolved. Advertisers who don't deliver aren't allowed to advertise anymore. If they're in FSM you can believe they're an up-and-up company, and if it turns out they're not, we'll kick 'em out.

Policing a buy/sell/trade section of the forum would just be too complicated given our smallish staff, and as others have mentioned, there are plenty of other forums where you can do this kind of bartering.

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Matthew Usher @ FSM

I work for minimum wage, I can't afford one of those new airbrushes that are advertised in FSM, at least not a brand new one. And its not only airbrushes, it'd work with kits too, other tools, reference books that you no longer use etc.

Its called forum rules. Keep the posts on topic about the item being sold or give warnings for misconduct. I know there isnt that problem with a lot of the forums Ive been too.

Content from the "fluff"? Man the first post is the only thing someone needs to read, how hard is that to find (it's usually at the top).

And as for the net savvy thats great for you. But some of us dont spend a lot of time searching around joining more and more forums just to B/S/T. Some of us dont even spend that much time on a computer. So it would be convienient if FSM had a section since it is a major modelling site a lot of modellers use.

I rather prefer it this way.  

On several modeling boards with sales areas I've seen, the content area gets flooded by 'go see my sale ... ' posts.   You have trouble separating the content from the 'fluff'.

I have enough net savvy that I can go off and locate a model sale/trade area on another site if I feel the need.

Why not support the airbrush vendors who pay to advertise in FSM and thereby provide this resource to you?

I think it would work. Ive bought stuff off of forums before. It just needs a chance to get going. People can list for free with pics but not sell things commercially. Its just something I felt these forums are lacking. Im interested in purchasing an airbrush and would have no problem buying one off the forums from somebody.

I think if enough people wanted it and there was interest it would work.

This has been tried to get going before with the only response being that there are advertisers and there is a classifieds in the magazine.

I, personally, sent an email to Matt asking for just this. For trade or sale, OOP only. But, alas, no reply. None. Never heard anymore about it. I can understand not wanting to sell new stuff and as for the magazine classifieds? I ahve responded to several of those in the past and by the time I get the mag, the product and/or item of interest is already gone. A forum would make it easier to get what you wanted when it showed up. 

But, that's just my opinion.