HELLOOOOOO!!! 'tink, tink, tink' Is there anyone listening??

Sorry, I would have responded faster had I not already been arguing with Boyd on another thread, and then there were all the "out of memory" errors before I COULD reply!

I second his comments, if not his tone! And Boyd, you get banned over this, and I'll organize the protest, myself!

It's human nature. Often when an organization makes an informed decision (in this case for a new forum software), the organization gains a vested ownership in the choice. Any critque or rant about the choice (software) is often perceived as a critque or rant against the organization.

Better organizations will take the high road, remain relatively silent, and address the issues behind the scenes and tweak the software as best they can. FSM is probably doing this.

Lesser organizations will enter into the fray and in an attempt to defend the choice, make counter observations towards the complainers. You'll hear comebacks like "you're too lazy to click an extra button" and things of that nature.

Very true, Rob!

And I suspect you're quite correct in FSM taking the high road. I would expect nothing less, in fact.

However, the requested improvements seem to have come to an end, while there is continuing issues with many problems. A friendly reminder is required, or apathy will take hold.

Boyd - I hear you, buddy. Took me 4 refreshes to get a screen that didn't say "out of memory error" just to load your thread...ugh. "New and Improved"

I hate it when that happens while I was trying to submit or post a response. Sometimes by refreshing, it resends the current data. Other times, it does not and my response is gone. I don't bother to re-type the response. I've probably had that out of memory error at least ten times today.

I've gotten to the point where I select-and-copy all of my replies before I hit send - barely been able to use the forum at all in the last half hour. Sweet.

Rob Gronovius

Better organizations will take the high road, remain relatively silent, and address the issues behind the scenes and tweak the software as best they can. FSM is probably doing this.

Rob

I certainly hope you are correct, but you and I both know that one of the quickest ways to alienate people is to ignore them, or at least give them the perception that they are being ignored.  The fact that day after day, people are pointing out problems, offering suggestions and fixes, etc, and rarely does an FSM person respond - even if just to say, 'Noted, thanks....' Something, anything, so that we feel like we are being heard and not ignored, particularly when the problems that we identify persist....

Well, I've received at least two very nice PMs I mean conversations from Megan thanking me for the help I have offered on the forums. Which are appreciated, but hardly necessary. I recall some pretty nasty posts, some of them targeting her, which were totally uncalled for (and I'm not including THIS one!). I know that would make me hesitate to post, if I was in her position.

Let's not forget that no-one at FSM has the full time job of administering the forums, they have a magazine to produce and only deal with the forum when they have time. I suspect that they were given a set length of time to do the switchover, and that time has long since expired. I also believe that they are, and will continue, to work on this issue, when they can.

I know it's frustrating to see little evidence of change, but some of the enhancements have been initiated, and more will come in the future. These errors are a significant issue, and I am reassured that they are continuing to work on the problem.

We all need to take a deep breath and relax, and try again later.

Bill

You are right, of course.  Like I said to Rob, I agree that FSM is certainly working behind the scenes to improve things.  I also can not praise Megan enough.  Like you, I have received several PMs in response to issues I have raised.

I think my salient point was that it seems like, since the furor has died down, our concerns were being dismissed.  Now, I know there is perception and there is reality, and while the reality may be different, it is the perception that often carries the most wait.  Sure, I agree, the FSM staff cannot respond to each and every post.  But one suggestion that I have made (a couple times) is to have a thread - make it a sticky thread - in this or one of the other feebback-ish forums - in which they could post a weekly update to say: "Hey folks, this is the problem we are focused on fixing/working out this week.   Other priorities are....'

Something, anything, that would provide some positive reinforcement to those here that our voices are being heard, our concerns are considered valid, and it is WORTH THE WAIT to stick around because improvements are in the works.

Completely agree!

Megan, how about it? I suspect a sticky post as Boyd describes would be appreciated and locking it would eliminate excessive chatter.

It certainly would be nice to know that progress is being made!

I got two emails form FSM today saying "your post has been moved to a new forum". Both post were somewhat negative (not to anyone person) to the new forum and one was only about all the error messages.  They weren't "moved" they were deleted.  I guess somewhat quietly though.   ?????

Abusive posts are often moved to a hidden forum and not actually deleted, and the emails are probably auto generated by the software.

Bgrigg

Abusive posts are often moved to a hidden forum and not actually deleted, and the emails are probably auto generated by the software.

Well, thank you for your response. But you are assuming and defining something you know very little about.

I appreciate your interpretation of abusive. And your  knowledge of hidden forums and auto generated emails

Dr

Yeah, I'm afraid I'm going to have to bail on the site, at least for awhile.

Over the last week, I've tried to log in on 4 separate occasions, and been completely unable to do so because of 404 errors, Unable to Find Server messages, etc.

I am also unable to locate my old threads, which is more frustrating than I can articulate. The search can't find them, and coming in from Google just gives more errors.

It took me 22 separate tries just to respond to this post.

I just have too much going on in my life to spend time wrestling w/ the site's software.

I'll check back in after a few months, to see if things have improved. Apologies to those waiting to see my builds finished.

Take care all - CJ

Dr. Faust

Bgrigg:

Abusive posts are often moved to a hidden forum and not actually deleted, and the emails are probably auto generated by the software.

 

 

Well, thank you for your response. But you are assuming and defining something you know very little about.

I appreciate your interpretation of abusive. And your  knowledge of hidden forums and auto generated emails

Dr

Got an explanation from Megan McChain, she said it's something they are doing to help them fix and sort out problems and repairs. It's all GOOD by me.

Thank you Megan. Keep up the good work.

Dr

Why are all of these "explanations" being done via PM and only to certain people? As far as no one at FSM having the time to come in here and check on things, I ain't buying it.

Go into O&E and start a thread titled, I dunno, "Hey guys, whats your favorite religion" and watch how fast that sucker gets locked/deleted.

EDITTED: Message removed

Bgrigg

Let's not forget that no-one at FSM has the full time job of administering the forums, they have a magazine to produce and only deal with the forum when they have time. I suspect that they were given a set length of time to do the switchover, and that time has long since expired. I also believe that they are, and will continue, to work on this issue, when they can.

They should really reconsider that. I know many view company forums as just a little chat spot for people interested in the company product or the subject of the company (in this case), but forums are no longer just a gimic. They are the face of the company, blowing off issues in the forum "because hey its free" sets the tone "that they don't care". Covering 1/3 of the screen with ads, doesn't really send a very positive message either. If the "free" site is sch a burden I would be willing to pay a couple bucks a month to drop the ads and get a functional forum back.

If you were in the market for a new model magazine and you came into this forum shortly after the change would you honestly walk away with a warm feeling about the magazine? Probably not, you would probably continue your search. If you had popped in 2 weeks earlier you would have had a very different and positive reaction. 

and just to throw out one of my new pet peeves with the site, what is with the big "top" posters section. There really isn't a better way to use that space (at least the ads, help pay the bills). That just seems like an invitation to start posting just for numbers. I mean we already have a post count, and now a bar to show where you rate in the larger scheme of things and now a special place for the top 10 or 20 posters, really? Is post count that important?

Oh, and before anyone gets offended by the post count comment, I don't see anyone on the list right now that I would consider to post fluff.

However I have seen it occur on more than one forum where some people just start to drop valueless posts just to boost their stats, in fact I seem to recall that being an issue here a few years back related to the number of stars under the posters name.

Aaron,

What do you mean? I post LOTS of fluff!

Post count means absolutely nothing of importance. Much of the numbers you'll see associated with large post counts are along the lines of "Welcome" and "Looks good". And by no means am I indicating that either aren't necessary. Welcoming new members is a great thing, and so is telling people their builds are good to look at. I certainly could do without the "Most Active Users" reminder of the time I've wasted posting, instead of building!

I doubt it is in the budget to have a full time staff member attend to the forums. Other than policing the site, most of the "true" administration is a matter of attending the backups, and the occasional upgrade. Hardly worth the expense. The FSM members do a pretty good job of self-policing, and having a full time moderator could invite a heavier hand on the controls than most would like.

I've just had a quick run through of some other modeling websites and their forums. Only Armorama had ads on their forums page (though ALL had ads on their home page), and while they were considerably smaller than on FSM, there were also MORE of them. I don't begrudge the ads, they are necessary to the well being of the host's survival. The other alternative is to charge a user fee, and that could seriously curtail some people's participation.

MORE communication over the issues would certainly be appreciated, but as I've theorized above, their time is better spent on the magazine than on the website, at least to the Brass.

I just wanted to ad to this as far as ads go cause appearently some people are just not getting it.

WE DONT CARE THAT THERE ARE ADS PRESENT, WE CARE ABOUT WHERE THEY ARE!!! Why do they need to be taking up 1/3 OF THE AREA THAT YOU READ?!

Top and bottom = good, put as many as you want there, doesnt bother me. Right side of the screen taking up space that we read and post in = BAD.  Is it that hard to figure out....really??!!

I get that they may not be able to hire a full time person, but you would think with a big change like this they would approve some OT or hire a temp guy for a week or two to get things running smoothly.

The internet has been around going on 20 years now and it is amazing to me how many companies still don't get the impact it has on their business. It used to be one disgruntled customer might complan to two or three friends about a bad experience, now they can complain to 2000 fellow forum members, if they are really mad about it they might even start their own I hate xyz website. Similarly they now have a vast audience to praise a product.

When I first got back into the hobby 2002-2003 or so, one of the first online places I got into was Scale Auto. It had a great, friendly site full of knowledgable people (like here). Over the years I've watched that site shrink as people left due to one ham fisted "fix" after another. I don't know if they are connected but I've watched that magazine shrink as well. I picked one up the other day and thought some of the pages fell out because it was so thin.  

I'd hate to see the same thing happen here, but the early signs are there. People are getting frustrated, and there doesn't seem to be much interest from the staff. I certainly don't expect them to get into a point by point discussion or argument with people, but as you said a little communication would be nice. Even a once a week update to let us know they are still trying to work the bugs out would go a long way. I'm not sure why they seem to think doing all of this in the dark or dropping an occasional PM is the way to go.

Personaly I'd say a free years subscription to the magazine would be well deserved for you and money well spent on their end. AT least from this side of the screen you seem to have done as much or more to help people get through this transition than the staff have.

AaronW, your last paragraph brings up a point that, to me, rubs an especially raw wound with this whole "new and improved" website - we, the users, were shoved out into traffic and left to fend for ourselves. Literally. Subscriber or non-subscriber, all forum users were treated with the same, "toss them in the pool to see if they can learn to swim" mentality.

Not a real good way to keep the users you have and entice new ones, at least to my way of thinking.

But then, no one at Kalmbach really seems to be reading these comments. But I feel a little better for having been able to vent (along the lines of remembering to puke over the downwind as opposed to the upwind side of the boat). Onward through the fog!

Dr. Faust

 

Bgrigg:

 

Abusive posts are often moved to a hidden forum and not actually deleted, and the emails are probably auto generated by the software.

 

 

 

Well, thank you for your response. But you are assuming and defining something you know very little about.

I appreciate your interpretation of abusive. And your  knowledge of hidden forums and auto generated emails

Dr

Why do you quite often talk down to people on this forum?