Back in the Saddle After 20 years Need Help with Paints

Exteach

Greetings all.  I'm finally returning to modeling after a 20 year hiatus, and am having difficulty with paints.  I laid down a Model Master light gray as a primer on a resin figure and have just tried to brush paint Tamiya acrylic over it and found that it seemed the enamel primer separated or mixed under the Tamiya.  What did I do wrong?  Help... Thanks. 

Welcome to the forum, Exteach! 

As far as painting resin figures goes, I wash the figure first with warm water and a couple drops of a de-greaser, to remove any remaining mold release agents and other schmutz.  Then I prime the figure.

As far as hand-painting Tamiya acrylics is concerned, they are formulated for airbrushing and work best when thinned.  After trial and error, I learned to use Tamiya's proprietary acrylic thinner, X-20A.  I will either mix the color and a little of the thinner on a palette, or I'll dip the brush in the thinner and then pick up the color from a palette, like the inside of the paint jar lid.

I also recommend having a look in the Painting and airbrushing forum, a little scroll down the page:

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/tools_techniques_and_reference_materials/f/18.aspx

I look forward to seeing that figure!

Best regards,

Brad

Brad says it well, Tamiya is primarily suited for airbrushing, brushing it just doesn't work as well as other paints. For brushing, I mostly use Craft Smart acrylic that I find at Michaels, when well thinned with distilled water it gives excellent results. 

For military colors I brush paint with Vallejo Model Color, it's intended for brushing, Vallejo Model Air is for airbrushing. I've had no problems with either Model Color or Craft Smart not working well when applied over each other, no incompatibility issues experienced by me.

I'd like more info on the subject, let's see what other users say about brush painting with acrylics.

Patrick

Paint chemistry has changed drastically in the last few years. Tamiya's "acrylics" are actually solvent-based enamels; the solvent is alcohol and the pigment is the acrylic part. Although alcohol is a milder solvent than is used in other enamels such as Model Master or Humbrol, it can dissolve an underlying enamel if applied too heavily or brushed, as you have discovered.

Hello and welcome aboard

Exteach

Greetings all.  I'm finally returning to modeling after a 20 year hiatus, and am having difficulty with paints.  I laid down a Model Master light gray as a primer on a resin figure and have just tried to brush paint Tamiya acrylic over it and found that it seemed the enamel primer separated or mixed under the Tamiya.  What did I do wrong?  Help... Thanks.

 

Welcome to the forum!

How long did you wait till you brushed on the tamiya paint? Also how well did you mix the paint?

You can hand paint tamiya paint, they sell a paint retarder that extendes the working time of the paint.

Welcome to the Forums!

Brad,

Thanks for your response.  I did wash the figure to be painted with mild detergent and warm water prior to priming, which I used a thinned Model Master Light Gray enamel which I airbrushed on.  Was this a mistake?  Should I have used an acrylic primer instead? 

I did wait at least 48 hours before I attempted to paint Tamiya acrylic over it with a brush.  I was quite disappointed to see what appeared to be the enamel under it "moving" from the brush strokes!  However, I forgot to mention that the Model Master enamel that I first tried to brush apply Tamiya over was NOT the section I airbrushed; it was the 'under' part of the figure which I didn't airbrush but applied with a brush.  Was that somehow a factor, because later, when I tried to brush Tamiya over another section of the figure that had its primer airbrushed, I did NOT experience that same problem? 

Patrick,

Thanks for your response.  I didn't know Tamiya was primarily suited for airbrushing.  I find the Tamiya paints a bit thick in their bottles, so I can't imagine airbrushing that without considerable thinning.  I have not heard of Craft Smart acrylic at Michaels- I'll have to check that out.  I'm sure I'm revealing just how out-of-touch I've been, since i did not even hear of the Vallejo acrylics, and how the industry has improved its preparation and formulation of paints.  I'll have to try these.  

Question:  how are the metallics in these acrylics?  Have you used any?  I've always had to (again, 20 years ago!) rely on enamels like Model Master for the metallics.

Thanks for your response.  A sure sign that I've been out of touch for too long is that I did not know that about Tamiya's acrylics, or how paint chemistry has changed drastically.  Only now have I heard of the Vallejo paints, for instance, which are supposedly formulated and packaged such that they can be brushed or airbrushed right out of the bottle without fretting over thinning!    Have you used them?  And if so, have you used their metallic colors?  I'm wondering because I don't think I've ever used any acrylic metallic paint- only enamels.

Also, how long did you let the primer dry? A good rule of thumb would be at least three or four days.

Bill

Thanks for your response.

I neglected to more precisely describe my application:  the section of the figure that I first attempted to brush Tamiya acrylic over enamel was a section that was the 'under carriage' part, which I BRUSHED on, not airbrushed.  I had airbrushed the thinned Model Master Light Grey over the rest of the figure but missed airbrushing the 'under carriage'- so I had to manually brush that on.  I waited at least 48 hours I think before attempting to manually brush the Tamiya over that, and that was where and when that problem occurred.

Interestingly, when I brushed Tamiya on top of the section of the figure that was enamel primed by AIRBRUSH it did NOT happen!   Could that have been the problem- that the enamel primer was manually brushed on instead of airbrushed?   Pesky pesky paints! 

Thanks for your response Bill.

I think maybe just two days.  Didn't know it should be longer!  Thanks.

Oh, and does it matter if your primer is hand or airbrushed?

Welcome to the Forums! Glad to have you with us.

I use mostly Vallejo Model Air paints for everything I build that requires flat colors. I have not had any problems with their metallics either. I do thin them a tad more with distilled water even though they are airbrush ready and I use thin coats. Clean-up is with Windex. I usually let them cure for 24 to 48 hours between coats just in case. That's why I'm always working on 2 or 3 models at a time.

I also use various enamels when needed and have not had any bad interaction with any of them either over or under the Vallejo paints. 

Relax and enjoy. It gets better with time and practice.

Jim 

Stay Safe.

I don't use any of the so-called "acrylic" paints except as washes over enamels. There are so many brands, each with their own formula and proprietary thinner and requiring some sort of additive to prevent the paint from drying on the airbrush nozzle, that one almost has to be a paint chemist to get them to behave satisfactorily, and then only after much experimentation and practice. They also don't adhere well unless primed with a lacquer or enamel, which defeats the purpose of using them (eliminating paint odor) for most users.

I spray and brush conventional hobby enamel (Humbrol, Colourcoats, Xtracolor, True North, and what little Model Master I have) thinned with a mix of mineral spirits and lacquer thinner. It's a combination that has worked for me for over 50 years.

Oh, and in case no one has mentioned it to you, the entire Model Master line has been discontinued by Testor Corp. 

That's not true at all. Read post by FSM on that. 

As for acrylics, consider SR advice his own opinion. Change is change. The new paints whatever they "really" are, which is not spirit based, work well for people who are intolerant to odor, who don't want solvents around to clean up with etc.

I'm trying AK Interactives and I like them 2 out of 3. Airbtrush great, hand brush fine. I'm not sold on their color matches, but I'm not comparing to original chips; just what I'm used to.

I have some Floquil, a lot of Humbrol and a few Testors enamels left around and I like them, but it's good to try new things.

Bill

Welcome to FSM Forums!

Your friend's, Toshi & Ezra

GMorrison

That's not true at all. Read post by FSM on that.  

What's "not true at all"?

First Off:

       Welcome to the forum. Now in answer to your question. I don't use Model Master colors as a base for any Acrylic. They don't seem to like it. I use MR. COLOR primer under the new Tamiyas I am getting. Now for really great paints I use A.K. Interactive .I have had good luck with it - So Far!

      Ya see, I have about twelve years of Testors and Testors "Model Master" left in my shop. I don't like acrylics, But some ARE starting to get my support. I found Tamiya with Retarder brushes great so I am starting the switch there.

    I have use Alcohol( No, Not my J.B.) as a thinner and it's really not needed with most. I wouldn't be surprised if Vodka wouldn't work in some instances. Inside the painter, Not the paint!

Space Ranger

 They also don't adhere well unless primed with a lacquer or enamel, which defeats the purpose of using them (eliminating paint odor) for most users.

Oh, and in case no one has mentioned it to you, the entire Model Master line has been discontinued by Testor Corp. 

Well SR, you haven't discovered Stynylrez primer. It's poly acrylic, sticks very well and paint sticks to it well and basically odor free.

MM Acryl according to my local hobby guy, he can still order in. And it's Rustoleum who cut the line . Testors is just a name now, Rustoleum owns them............ All fwiw of course.....

Welcome to the forums Exteach. I too have had a long break from the hobby and am somewhat stunned by the range of kits today, let alone paints and other modelling associated products. I can't help with your paint issue unfortunately, as I have always undercoated my figures with handbrushed enamels and then painted them with oils. Old school, but it works for me.

As previously suggested I would reccomend that you check out the airbrush and paint section.