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Have we devalued the term "Hero" ?

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  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: clinton twp,mi
Posted by humper491 on Friday, January 3, 2014 12:41 AM

Hello all, I'm a bit late to the party(as usual) but here's my fix...

I haven't been thru 1/4 of what most ya'll been thru. I was a squid for 4 years(because at age 21 I knew everything...)  hear me out, if you will.

my non-blood grandfather got blown out of a M-48 Patton doing his job. successful military consaultant til his death 1989.

my blood grandmother, 1st-3rd grade teacher. they both came to my high school gradution. she succumbed to ovarian cancer 1 week to the day I graduated from "Great MIstakes", which was also my b-day.

I guess I got outta the subject, but they are 'hero' to me....

Humper Beam

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: Scotland
Posted by Milairjunkie on Thursday, January 2, 2014 8:35 AM

New Hampshire

Best I can do now is the "after" pics....and I don't think anyone wants to see those! Big Smile

No pics required - the thought itself is way more than enoughIck!

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Goffstown, NH
Posted by New Hampshire on Thursday, January 2, 2014 7:47 AM

pyrman64
New Hampshire

Had me a nice tasty gyro today in Lincoln, New Hampshire.  It was delicious! Big Smile

Brian

pics or it didn't happen! ;)

Best I can do now is the "after" pics....and I don't think anyone wants to see those! Big Smile

Brian

  • Member since
    May 2005
Posted by pyrman64 on Wednesday, January 1, 2014 8:01 PM
New Hampshire

Had me a nice tasty gyro today in Lincoln, New Hampshire.  It was delicious! Big Smile

Brian

pics or it didn't happen! ;)

Greg H

"There is many a boy here today who looks on war as all glory, but, boys, it is all hell." Gen. Wm T. Sherman (11 April 1880, Columbus, Ohio)

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Goffstown, NH
Posted by New Hampshire on Wednesday, January 1, 2014 6:58 PM

Had me a nice tasty gyro today in Lincoln, New Hampshire.  It was delicious! Big Smile

Brian

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, January 1, 2014 12:13 PM

Friday sounds like he would be REALLY hungry by then....

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
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Posted by pyrman64 on Wednesday, January 1, 2014 7:24 AM

New Hampshire

Mmmmmm, Gyro.  Now I am hungry again. Cool

Brian

I know a great gyro place here in Central Ohio....how's Friday sound? ;-)

Greg H

"There is many a boy here today who looks on war as all glory, but, boys, it is all hell." Gen. Wm T. Sherman (11 April 1880, Columbus, Ohio)

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Draper, Utah
Posted by bushman32 on Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:51 PM

My humble opinion is a hero is someone who does an act to save life when the chances of him or her surviving is pretty much zilch. If the do survive, then it is pretty much an act of God or luck-call it what you will. A good example would be the sailors who stayed in the oxygen tank compartment on the USS Forrestal during that horrific fire off of Vietnam. They knew they were dead if they stayed, but they knew if they left the tragedy would be much worse.

Ron Wilkinson

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Draper, Utah
Posted by bushman32 on Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:42 PM

New Jersey flew the flag at half mast when Whitney Houstan died. Still trying to figure that one out.

Ron Wilkinson

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Goffstown, NH
Posted by New Hampshire on Monday, December 30, 2013 7:12 PM

Mmmmmm, Gyro.  Now I am hungry again. Cool

Brian

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, December 30, 2013 6:20 PM

So very true. We can debate definitions here all day and night, but it will not alter events in the slightest. A hero sandwich does sound real good about now though... Now I wonder if that term had anything to do with the Greek Gyro sandwich which has a similar pronunciation...?

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

Moderator
  • Member since
    September 2011
Posted by Tim Kidwell on Monday, December 30, 2013 3:23 PM

When the U.S. flag is to be flown at half-staff, as decreed by President Eisenhower.

Also, see this too.

Good discussion, everyone.

I think Subfixer may have done this already, but since I love discussions about language, its evolution and use, it's always good to start with a definition:

According to Webster's College Dictionary 4th Ed., a hero is:

1 a man (mythological or legendary) of great strength and courage, favored by the gods and in part descended from them, often regarded as a half-god and worshiped after his death

2 any person, esp. a man, admired for courage, nobility, or exploits, esp. in war

3 any person, esp. a man, admired for qualities or achievements and regarded as an ideal or model

4 the central male character in a novel, play, poem, etc., with whom the reader or audience is supposed to sympathize

5 the central figure in any important event or period, honored for outstanding qualities

6 HERO SANDWICH

Now, from this, I think you can make arguments for and against the thread's main thesis, which is that the word, "hero", has been cheapened. 

Words have a certain weight, a heft, and too often they are used without regard for that weight. We can blame it on media. However, I think that answer is too simplistic; it's too easy throw out there. Which media is to blame? News? Sports? Radio? TV? Books? Magazines? Computers? Advertising inside Walmart stores?Comic books? It's all media. 

There are many works regarding the effect of language, words, and meaning, and how these things change over time. And while this may be part of the difficulty, I suspect it's something more general:

People are less concerned with knowing the words to precisely say that which they mean to say. As I like to point out, curmudgeon that I am, while tragedies are sad events, not all sad events are tragedies (your local newscasters probably would disagree). I prefer Aristotle's view of the tragic, though I can live with the Elizbethan one too. 20th-century tragedy lacks a certain loftiness in my opinion.

On the other hand, humans have always glamorized sports stars, all the way back to the Olympic games and Roman gladiatorial contests. Whenever we place someone on a pedestal and "worship" them, we turn them into heroes of one sort or another.

We have always glamorized warriors--Spartacus, Nelson, Washington, Grant, Patton, Yeager, Schwarzkopf (and just as often demonize the other side). We memorialize them. Does that mean every enlisted man is a hero? It's a matter of perspective, right? He's a hero to someone: If not to a nation, maybe to a state/province; if not a state/province, maybe a town; if not a town, perhaps a father, mother, sister, brother, son, or daughter.

When is it appropriate to use a word and when is it not? Can a boy say to his father, "You're my hero, Dad," and have it mean exactly what it says? I think so. What is the boy left with otherwise? "My heart bursts with love and pride for you, Dad." OK, similar, but not quite the same effect.

What's more, you're the hero in your own life's story, aren't you? I know I am. If I was only a secondary character, that would kinda suck.

I think we can argue this, adequately, from many sides, and I think we're all going to be able to come up with good points supporting our particular view.

Stay curious, my friends. But keep it lighthearted. None of us are going to fix the world's woes on the FSM Forum.

--

Timothy Kidwell
tkidwell@firecrown.com
Editor
Scale Model Brands
Firecrown Media

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Massachusetts
Posted by ajlafleche on Monday, December 30, 2013 2:39 PM

From the Flag Code Section 7.Paragraph m


  In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law

Source: http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagcode.htm

Remember, if the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

  • Member since
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  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, December 30, 2013 1:36 PM

I'll almost guarantee you it was not Congress.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • From: England
Posted by P mitch on Monday, December 30, 2013 1:12 PM

From a quick search I've found out that the US flag can be flow at half staff at presidential degree or act of Congress so for Mandela that probably happened.

I do know there are some flags which can never be flown at half staff which are flags of Monarchs as soon as one monarch dies the next one is automatically King or Queen. I know over here in the UK as few years back with Diana's death people asked why the Royal Standard wasn't flown at half  mast. I had to point out its Half Staff and the Royal Standard never flies at half staff no matter who has died.

Anyway back to your discussion.

Phil

"If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: it's all balls." R J Mitchell


  • Member since
    October 2008
Posted by eatthis on Monday, December 30, 2013 1:06 PM

im not american so i dont know the precise flag protocol.

but i do know that mandela achieved a huge amount and its generally accepted (over here at least) that he was absolutely the kind of person who deseved a half mast salute

 

snow + 4wd + escessive hp = :)  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7egUIS70YM

  • Member since
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  • From: Phoenix, AZ
Posted by Fly-n-hi on Monday, December 30, 2013 1:01 PM

eatthis

lol you do understand how insular you sound dont you?

lol If you really think about it your lack of understanding of US flag protocol, and calling stik insular because he does understand, makes you the insular one.

  • Member since
    October 2008
Posted by eatthis on Monday, December 30, 2013 12:34 PM

lol you do understand how insular you sound dont you?

 

snow + 4wd + escessive hp = :)  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7egUIS70YM

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, December 30, 2013 12:25 PM

eatthis

you dont think mandela was worth a half mast flag? blimey!!

Nope, I sure do not. Politics of Mandela aside, I do not believe that US flag protocol allows for half staff for a foreign national either. Sorry.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    October 2008
Posted by eatthis on Monday, December 30, 2013 12:07 PM

you dont think mandela was worth a half mast flag? blimey!!

 

snow + 4wd + escessive hp = :)  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7egUIS70YM

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Monday, December 30, 2013 10:24 AM

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, December 29, 2013 11:17 PM

Harrumph!!! Harrumph!!! Harrumph!!!! ;-)

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Goffstown, NH
Posted by New Hampshire on Sunday, December 29, 2013 8:40 PM

I am with all of you that have said the term hero has become so overused.  I am glad to see I am not the only one who gets angry as hell when I see athletes called heroes.  They are paid to play a game, and you expect me to gape in awe at a man who made an amazing catch?  C'mon, he is doing what he is paid to do.  If I get a job out the door quicker at work, or figure out how to save the company a few bucks, do I expect praise and universal accolades?  No, it is called a job.  It is what my employer pays me to do.  The only difference between me and Tom Brady is a few million a year.  Oh, and that he gets paid to play a game whereas I actually do something productive.  But I digress. Big Smile  I am also annoyed at our local news station for their Friday morning segment "Hometown hero" where they profile a local (to New Hampshire) athlete...college, high school, etc.  It is not that I don't want to rain on the parade of these young kids or anything.  But calling them heroes?  Sorry, not in my world.  In my world a hero is someone like, say, Martin Luther King Jr.  A man who lived for a principle and stood by it until he was murdered for it. 

And while we are at it I have another similar gripe.  The flag at half staff.  When I was younger, the flag went to half staff on those rare occasions that deserved it.  It seems like we drop it to half staff for just about anyone now.  I am forever driving by local and federal government buildings to find the flag at half staff, and 3/4's of the time I don't even know for whom it is at half mast for!  And in general I try to keep abreast of these kind of things.  So when even I can't figure out why the flag is at half mast (and around here it often seems to be about twice a month!) we have a problem.  And when it IS at half mast and I know who it is for I most times can't understand why.  I mean look at a recent occasion.  Now I respect Nelson Mandela for who he was and what he did.  But I can't say I think he was worthy of having flags brought to half mast, mostly because he wasn't even American.

It seems to me that we live in a society that is afraid of offending anyone to the point we now heap praise and accolades on those who are not doing anything really extraordinary. 

Brian

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Houston, Texas
Posted by panzerpilot on Saturday, December 28, 2013 11:09 AM

Yes, we have. I blame it on the news media and hollywood. They will loosely term someone as a "hero" who helps an old lady change a tire on the side of the interstate, etc. etc.

No. A hero is someone who saves a kid from a burning house, his platoon from annihilation, brings his plane in crippled and burning to save wounded crew, when he coulda bailed out. Stuff like that.

-Tom

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Saturday, December 28, 2013 10:56 AM

Definition of Hero

  • he·ro
  • [ heerō ]

  1. remarkably brave person: somebody who commits an act of remarkable bravery or who has shown an admirable quality such as great courage or strength of character
  2. somebody admired: somebody who is admired for outstanding qualities or achievements
  3. main character in fictional plot: the principal male character in a movie, novel, or play, especially one who plays a vital role in plot development or around whom the plot is structured

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    August 2008
Posted by tankerbuilder on Saturday, December 28, 2013 8:20 AM

Hi :

     I just popped in to say hi Ya'll and found this .Now my response is this .You want a real hero ? Here's one A fellow by the name of OZBOURN .He was a young MARINE in WW2.Yes he did his job ,and didn't consider himself anything but a Marine .Well , one day in a firefight he saw a grenade fall amongst his buddies .He did what he thought was right .He fell on that grenade to protect his buddies .Now did he have to fall on that grenade ?  NO, He really didn't .He could've tried to throw it back and he would've probably died anyway .But he gave the supreme sacrifice to protect his buddies .Now to me that's a Hero !

    The term is indeed misused . I don't consider a celebrity sports figure a hero .Nor a firefighter or policeman . Why ? well , they know they are getting in a position of going in harms way to do their jobs .They are everyday heros fo doing their jobs .Now a real hero ,well I think My info about Hero sums it up . ABOVE and BEYOND the call of DUTY. I wore two uniforms .Does that make me a Hero .No  that means I served with pride .and did my job .Now if I had died saving all the other 356 men on my ship from harm then I would be a hero .Not just " Doing my Duty . That's my take on it anyway .   Tanker - Builder

  • Member since
    October 2008
Posted by eatthis on Saturday, December 28, 2013 4:57 AM

i think the english language in general has been massively devalued by overuse of extremes ie epic awesome hero etc etc

 

snow + 4wd + escessive hp = :)  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7egUIS70YM

  • Member since
    March 2013
Posted by MikeyBugs95 on Friday, December 27, 2013 11:27 PM

Well... As many war veterans say: "The real heroes are those who did not return." But we all have our different definitions and views. I think the best way to define a hero is the sum of all our definitions combined.

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  • From: Phoenix, AZ
Posted by Fly-n-hi on Friday, December 27, 2013 10:30 PM

stikpusher

I dont like guys who expect to be treated like that due to our chosen profession. That being said, if I am on duty and going to a buy my meal at a local restaurant, I will often go to a place that has a history of giving discounts to us (cops) while we eat. Why? Not because I expect it, but because I like to make my money go farther. i always will have enough cash on me to pay full price, and I do  not expect the discount- but it is nice when it happens. That was one of many lessons drilled into me by my training officers. Now I know that some restaurants offer the discounts because they like having the security of having a few cops and the patrol car there much of the time- not too likely for them to be the victim of a robbery if a unit is there. probably worth any loss of revenue to them for discounted meals.

That's good.  And I'm not suggesting that restaurants shouldn't give discounts.  Heck, I'm all for it.  I just didn't like the attitude that my friend had about it.

Here's another entitlement story.  I fly for a major airline.  We, like most airlines, will move uniformed military personnel from coach to first class if seats are available and at the discretion of the flight attendants...its not automatic.

Well, one time, I'm standing there saying hello to people as they board and some military guy walks on board. I say hello and he says "Should I go ahead and put my stuff up here in first class or what?"  I said "Excuse me?"  He says "Well I'm in uniform so when do I get my first class seat?"  I said "Sir, that's a courtesy that we extend to military folks.  You get the seat when we offer it to you."  He kind of rolled his eyes and gave out an audible breath and proceeded to the back.  I thought "Well, you're definitely not sitting up here now."

True story.

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