What is the future of plastic models?

PontiacRich wrote:

Hi folks - Recently I was having a "discussion" with my wife (she'd say lecturing) regarding the need to maximize our recycling efforts, she turned to me and said "This from the man that has a basement full of plastic models!" I was stumped for a second then I quickly responded "Well, see I'm taking plastic out of the landfills by buying these [mostly old] kits".  It worked for the moment, but it did start me thinking . Conservatively, there are thousands of styrene plastic models for sale on ebay and other auction sites and thousands more are procuced every year.  Styrene plastic being a petroleum derivative contributes to the use of an ever dwindling resource with global weather and waste consequences. Is the industry as a whole doing anything to remove petroleum from the plastic equation?  I know some inks and paints are being produced using "greener" oil sources such as soy and other plant derived oils, has anyone heard of any such efforts from the styrene industry and is there any mechanism available to make suggestions to the industry?  Just trying to do my part !

     The reason no one makes models out of eco-friendly materials is because it's expensive.  Invariably, making ANYTHING eco-friendly is going to be more expensive.   Being green might give you a warm fuzzy feeling, but if you are in the business of making model kits, it ain't gonna fill your wallet, or pay your employees.   As soon as it becomes cheaper to make kits out of soy or other recycled plastics or fairy dust or whatever, and as soon as you can do that with as good or better quality, is when you'll see manufacturers start doing it.

   In the meantime, I'll just stick to recycling my cans and plastic and paper and cardboard, since even THAT isn't mainstream yet.  At least I"m doing something.  It's kinda like having a quarter pounder for lunch, and a salad for dinner.  It all balances out.  That's my philosophy, anyway.

  Chris

 I KNOW that wasn't pleasant!!!!  Time stopped...... Brrrrrrrrr shivers!

   Sorry, Bro.

                                             60

You never hear the one that gets you, eh, Hans?

Damn sure saw it...

Hans von Hammer wrote:

PaintsWithBrush wrote:  Hans von Hammer wrote: Some people must just lie awake at night thinking of stuff to worry about... The only thing we know for sure is that nobody knows... Personally, I'm gonna use my last 60 seconds to laugh my azz off at all the tree-huggin', carbon-offsetting, PETA-phile, health & fitness moonbats on 21 Dec 2012 if the Mayans end up getting it right...  Think I was born a generation too late... Shoulda been born in 1919 rather than '59... Wasn't nuthin' goin' on then, 'cept maybe a Spanish Flu pandemic, the aftermath of a World War, the Great Depression, black blizzards, another world war, ... You know... Th' Good Ol' Days... When scratch-builders ruled the hobby... "Always keep a litter-bag in your car... It doesn't take up much room and when it gets full, you can just throw it out the window..." Steve Martin       I view this as acerbic wit. Not thrown out there with malice. To my eyes, it has a rather 'The Daily Show with Jon Stewart' about it. I don't find PontiacRich's call for the modeling industry to become more wasteful to be either serious or sarcastic/offensive, just internet banter. To the query posed by PontiacRich as to different materials, I am no chemical engineer so there is no useful comment I can make to the furtherance of this discussion. On that note, I will bid you all farewell. Regards, PWB. Nope, no malice at all... I used a smilie... After having been literally shot at and missed, shot at and hit, shot down, and blown up, my personal creedo is "Admit Nothing, Deny Everything, Make Counter-accusations", and my personal outlook is in two parts... One: "Don't sweat the small stuff", and B: "It's all small stuff"...

 So true. You never hear the one that gets you, eh, Hans? But you can make plastic from milk and vinegar. Yes, it is true. Google it.

                                                                     60

Maybe our hobby will have to align with the computer age, we will be able to buy virtual kits. assembled with careful and delicate movements with the mouse... think of the possibilities.

no waste, no mess. (no fun!)

smeagol the vile wrote:

Heres a question that I have, it may be far far away, may not.  What happens to this hobby when oil isnt as avaliable as it is now, when there are MASS shortages and even the low grade crappy stuff is needed for other things?

Something like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj4-e1oMgM8

After having been literally shot at and missed, shot at and hit, shot down, and blown up, my personal creedo is "Admit Nothing, Deny Everything, Make Counter-accusations", and my personal outlook is in two parts... One: "Don't sweat the small stuff", and B: "It's all small stuff"...

Hans - Point taken !  I wish there was a "Thank You" emoticon with an american flag to thank people for their service.  I guess getting shot at does put things in perspesctive.

My point in this whole discussion was to see if anyone else here sees the irony that my wife saw of me harping on getting better at recycling household items while I buy and build plastic models?  And, hopefully, to see if there is any movement afoot to try and guide the industry (users and manufacturers) to get more eco-friendly!  So is there?

There have to be some chemists in this learned group - hopefully with ties to the manufacturers - that may know of whether things are changing or if there is even a possibility of things changing. 

PaintsWithBrush wrote:

Hans von Hammer wrote: Some people must just lie awake at night thinking of stuff to worry about... The only thing we know for sure is that nobody knows... Personally, I'm gonna use my last 60 seconds to laugh my azz off at all the tree-huggin', carbon-offsetting, PETA-phile, health & fitness moonbats on 21 Dec 2012 if the Mayans end up getting it right...  Think I was born a generation too late... Shoulda been born in 1919 rather than '59... Wasn't nuthin' goin' on then, 'cept maybe a Spanish Flu pandemic, the aftermath of a World War, the Great Depression, black blizzards, another world war, ... You know... Th' Good Ol' Days... When scratch-builders ruled the hobby... "Always keep a litter-bag in your car... It doesn't take up much room and when it gets full, you can just throw it out the window..." Steve Martin       I view this as acerbic wit. Not thrown out there with malice. To my eyes, it has a rather 'The Daily Show with Jon Stewart' about it. I don't find PontiacRich's call for the modeling industry to become more wasteful to be either serious or sarcastic/offensive, just internet banter. To the query posed by PontiacRich as to different materials, I am no chemical engineer so there is no useful comment I can make to the furtherance of this discussion. On that note, I will bid you all farewell. Regards, PWB.

Nope, no malice at all... I used a smilie...

After having been literally shot at and missed, shot at and hit, shot down, and blown up, my personal creedo is "Admit Nothing, Deny Everything, Make Counter-accusations", and my personal outlook is in two parts... One: "Don't sweat the small stuff", and B: "It's all small stuff"...

grandadjohn wrote:

Likewise, how many of those plastic water bottles people buy end up in the landfills? We need to find ways to recycle the trash we throw away before worrying about what plastic models are made from.

They recycle almost everything here. Plastic water bottles marked #1 pay $.90 / lb at the local recycling place and all of our garbage goes through a mass of conveyor belts that seperates everything.

Pretty impressive actually.

Hans von Hammer wrote:

Some people must just lie awake at night thinking of stuff to worry about... The only thing we know for sure is that nobody knows... Personally, I'm gonna use my last 60 seconds to laugh my azz off at all the tree-huggin', carbon-offsetting, PETA-phile, health & fitness moonbats on 21 Dec 2012 if the Mayans end up getting it right...  Think I was born a generation too late... Shoulda been born in 1919 rather than '59... Wasn't nuthin' goin' on then, 'cept maybe a Spanish Flu pandemic, the aftermath of a World War, the Great Depression, black blizzards, another world war, ... You know... Th' Good Ol' Days... When scratch-builders ruled the hobby... "Always keep a litter-bag in your car... It doesn't take up much room and when it gets full, you can just throw it out the window..." Steve Martin

I think on a 'per kilo basis' we are not really environmental vandals when compared to the auto industry (or many other industries for that matter).

How much petroleum do you think the entire model industry uses in one year compared to what Solo cups uses in one day?

You want to see a real source of plastic waste...look at the food packaging materials one throws away. If you ever saw the amount of plastic wrap and the plastic used to make reusable food storage materials that isn't recouped you'd be awestruck.

Likewise, how many of those plastic water bottles people buy end up in the landfills?

So I guess we should just be as wasteful in modelling as we are in other aspects of our lives ? 

Look folks - I'm not saying that the plastic model industry is the problem...it's all the people that use the products...it's all of us!

And though I don't consider myself part of the:

tree-huggin', carbon-offsetting, PETA-phile, health & fitness moonbats

I have tried to do modify how many plastic products I buy and use. 

As I said when I started this discussion: 

Recently I was having a "discussion" with my wife (she'd say lecturing) regarding the need to maximize our recycling efforts, she turned to me and said "This from the man that has a basement full of plastic models!"

By the way...PaintswithBrush - I don't think my senses were off about the sarcasm with comments like:

Oh boy here we go! and...

Personally, I'm gonna use my last 60 seconds to laugh my azz off at all the tree-huggin', carbon-offsetting, PETA-phile, health & fitness moonbats on 21 Dec 2012 if the Mayans end up getting it right...

As someone else on this forum uses as his ending...I'll just say...

Rounds complete!

Some people must just lie awake at night thinking of stuff to worry about...

The only thing we know for sure is that nobody knows...

Personally, I'm gonna use my last 60 seconds to laugh my azz off at all the tree-huggin', carbon-offsetting, PETA-phile, health & fitness moonbats on 21 Dec 2012 if the Mayans end up getting it right... 

Think I was born a generation too late... Shoulda been born in 1919 rather than '59... Wasn't nuthin' goin' on then, 'cept maybe a Spanish Flu pandemic, the aftermath of a World War, the Great Depression, black blizzards, another world war, ... You know... Th' Good Ol' Days... When scratch-builders ruled the hobby...

"Always keep a litter-bag in your car... It doesn't take up much room and when it gets full, you can just throw it out the window..." Steve Martin

"we will all have to buy super-glue, and build in white metal"

 But remember Lead is bad.  I was in the miniatures when the "lead" scare hit and everything had to change, which ment there was a price hike.

smeagol the vile wrote:

Heres a question that I have, it may be far far away, may not.  What happens to this hobby when oil isnt as avaliable as it is now, when there are MASS shortages and even the low grade crappy stuff is needed for other things?

we will all have to buy super-glue, and build in white metal

HawkeyeHobbies wrote:

There is in my mind a huge difference between items produced for a purpose and those produced to satisfied a need to fill a whime or strickly because they can. We purchase more junk on impulse with a short lifespan that has contributed more to environmental, trade and economic issues than plastic scale models. Sure there are those with sizeable stashes in their basements. If they leave this moral life chances are those kits will be "recycled" into the hands of someone else who appreciates them. Waste is minimalized or non existant. You want to see a real source of plastic waste...look at the food packaging materials one throws away. If you ever saw the amount of plastic wrap and the plastic used to make reusable food storage materials that isn't recouped you'd be awestruck. The tonnage from the company that produces packaging for Oscar Meyer here in our area is huge! Back when I worked for the trucking company that they used to supply just one plant, we hauled a semi trailer load each week night. 99.9% of which ends up in the landfill by the consumer. That is a lot of hot dog packages from one plant, one company. We pay for convenience...especially in food handling materials/packaging. With it comes waste, more waste than you can really fathom unless you really investigate. Plastic modeling isn't likely any more than .0000001% of the cause of "plastic" waste.

Likewise, how many of those plastic water bottles people buy end up in the landfills? We need to find ways to recycle the trash we throw away before worrying about what plastic models are made from.

There is in my mind a huge difference between items produced for a purpose and those produced to satisfied a need to fill a whime or strickly because they can. We purchase more junk on impulse with a short lifespan that has contributed more to environmental, trade and economic issues than plastic scale models.

Sure there are those with sizeable stashes in their basements. If they leave this moral life chances are those kits will be "recycled" into the hands of someone else who appreciates them. Waste is minimalized or non existant.

You want to see a real source of plastic waste...look at the food packaging materials one throws away. If you ever saw the amount of plastic wrap and the plastic used to make reusable food storage materials that isn't recouped you'd be awestruck. The tonnage from the company that produces packaging for Oscar Meyer here in our area is huge! Back when I worked for the trucking company that they used to supply just one plant, we hauled a semi trailer load each week night. 99.9% of which ends up in the landfill by the consumer. That is a lot of hot dog packages from one plant, one company.

We pay for convenience...especially in food handling materials/packaging. With it comes waste, more waste than you can really fathom unless you really investigate. Plastic modeling isn't likely any more than .0000001% of the cause of "plastic" waste.

I think I'm sensing some sarcasm here and not sure why . 

It seems to me that it would behove the entire population of this planet to conserve oil and help the environment in any way, shape or form possible. 

If there is an environmental benefit to change the formula of styrene why not do it? Besides then we couldn't blame OPEC or anyone else for the price of kits going up.  Soybeans are much more renewable than fossil fuels and who would be ticked off if we modellers cut into the supply a little...Tofu eaters?

If I were to follow the logic set by paintswithbrush, I wouldn't recycle newspaper because the three newspapers a week that come to my house are nothing in comparison to the total output of even my local papers distribution.

I do also build in wood...full scale...I currently work in a boatyard "recycling" an eighty year old wooden ketch .