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What is a beginner to do?

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  • Member since
    December 2009
What is a beginner to do?
Posted by johnnyrockets on Friday, January 1, 2010 6:07 PM

Okay, after reading a lot on these forums, it seems like one thing kind of surfaces.

As a beginner, I am starting out with paints and brushes, but it almost seems like you can't really make a serious model without an airbrush? 

It seems like everyone quickly abandons a brush?

Am I wrong?  Tongue Tied

It can be kind of frustrating before you begin....

Maybe I'm getting to worked up about this?  Embarrassed

Because an airbrush and paint booth can really add up quick!

 

JR

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Neenah, WI
Posted by HawkeyeHobbies on Friday, January 1, 2010 6:30 PM

I didn't have an airbrush for a long time, built some 200 models even before I entertained the idea of getting one.

Brush painting a model is an art into itself and if you can master that, you're actually better off than those of us who rely on them. Lose power, can't paint. Compressor goes kaput, can't paint.

My advice to novice modelers is...learn the fundamentals, including painting with a brush. As with any painting project be sure to have the right tool for the job, don't take the cheap route. A good brush costs just like a good airbrush does. Treat them as any tool you plan to keep and use them for a lifetime.

 

Gerald "Hawkeye" Voigt

http://hawkeyes-squawkbox.com/

 

 

"Its not the workbench that makes the model, it is the modeler at the workbench."

  • Member since
    December 2009
Posted by johnnyrockets on Friday, January 1, 2010 6:45 PM

HawkEye,

Thanks for your huge words of encouragement!

I will indeed be investing in some excellent brushes.

I plan to take it slow and learn the fundamentals, as you said.

 

Thank you for your great advice.

 

JR

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Friday, January 1, 2010 7:03 PM

Well, first thing is

DON'T PANIC!

While the ultimate tool in painting is an airbrush, it is also "ultimate" in price!

If you have a place that you can close off and ventilate (and not get into trouble with your mother/wife/roommates) then a compressor, airbrush and paint mask is the bare minimum to work. While paint IS toxic, there is also risk assessment to consider. You may be exposed to greater concentration of toxins in your kitchen, than what you'll be exposed to painting for ten minutes. Choosing to invest in a full blown airbrush setup is daunting, but with care you can build up your inventory over time. I started with a used airbrush, cheap compressor and a cardboard box! With a fan behind you and an open window (and a loving wife!) I made the jump into airbrushing. In those early days I only used paint masks, although a decent respirator can be found for as little as $25-35 and is strongly recommended.

Proper thinning and investing in good paint brushes have served many a modeler with years of enjoyment using nothing more than paint brushes. Check out Scott Espin's (espins1) model in this thread about brush painting with Tamiya Acrylics, and Tamiya are considered the WORST at hand brushing. I agree with Scott that excellent results can be your reward if you follow proper paint thinning and brush techniques.

This is a relatively inexpensive hobby, if you compare it to golf, and don't go crazy buying everything in site.

You don't need every single color of paint made, most kits will give your paint codes on the box, or that can be found online at each maker's website. Try to stay within one genre to begin and start with a simple kit like a Sherman tank in OD or a Panzer in simple Grey.That will keep the initial paint cost down, you can add more as you go.

You'll need a good Xacto knife with a #11 blade to start with. Don't get sucked in by the cheap kits with a gazillion types of blades. Most are useless and the quality isn't good. $5 should be ample. Buy blades in bulk. I get them by the 100 pack for $25. They can also be resharpened, if you put your time to it.

I found inexpensive tweezers at Princess Auto (Harbor Freight is a similar company in the States) in a variety of styles for under $5. You don't need name brand tweezers that cost three times that! The set I found has the kind that have to be held open (the word for them is escaping me at the moment!) which I find useful when holding decals.

Cheap sanding sticks can be made with carpenter glue, sandpaper from the hardware store and popsicle sticks. Or hit up the makeup counter at the local drug store.

Invest in good paint brushes. $30 will get you a pretty good selection. Use the big discount coupons available for Hobby Lobby or Michaels. A good paint brush is vastly important!

You can probably get a pretty decked out model bench started for under $100 and can add in more paint, glues and supplies as you go.

 

So long folks!

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by cassibill on Friday, January 1, 2010 7:08 PM

I own 2 airbrushes and don't use them.  I tried a couple of times, didn't like how it turned out and stripped it and used a spray can.  I learned the art of brush painting early from my mother on ceramic and stil prefer it.  Spray can for primer and large areas or basecoats and brushes for everything else, sometimes I you a pencil or Sharpie.

cdw My life flashes before my eyes and it mostly my life flashing before my eyes!!!Big Smile The 1/144 scale census and message board: http://144scalelist.freewebpage.org/index.html

  • Member since
    December 2009
Posted by johnnyrockets on Friday, January 1, 2010 7:17 PM

Thanks to all!

Great to hear.

I'm going to start with brushes and go that route and use the spray cans for large areas, maybe once I'm more hardcore and the money is flowing more, I'll go for the airbrush.

 

You have all been so great!  Thanks for all of your expertise!

 

JR

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Huntington, WV
Posted by Kugai on Friday, January 1, 2010 8:32 PM

While I hope to be able to get an airbrush someday, I've been OK with brush-on paint up til now with the rattle cans for some colors ( especially white and red ) as well as primer and finish ( gloss and dull coats ).  There are some kits that are in storage til the day I can get an airbrush and spray booth set up because of the camo patterns needing an airbrush to look right, but it's not like they'll curdle before I can get to them.

http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww122/randysmodels/No%20After%20Market%20Build%20Group/Group%20Badge/GBbadge2.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/razordws/GB%20Badges/WMIIIGBsmall.jpg

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: hamburg michigan
Posted by fermis on Friday, January 1, 2010 9:34 PM

 All great advice here!

 I will add, however, that an airbrush doesn't have to break the bank. I started with brushing(I'm sure most everyone here did as well) and moved on to rattlecans. Then my wife got me a $20 Testors A/B from Wal-Mart. I'm still using it 10 years later, along with canned air(about 2 cans a year). My spraybooth is made out of plywood out of a scrap pile at a jobsite, with a $15 fart fan from home depot, ducted to the outside. It's not at all a GOOD A/B, by any standards, the smallest spot that can be made with it is about half an inch.

 You don't have to have a super high dollar A/B to make good finishes. I have won many awards with my $20 cheapo. Still, nothing beats good brush skills.

 This A-10, as an example, took 1st place in class and Best of Show. I used my cheapo, and weathered it using a brush. Drybrushing over the entire model.

010.jpg picture by fermisb

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: SLC, Ut.
Posted by Batosi420 on Friday, January 1, 2010 10:36 PM

Hi JR-

I also have 2 airbrushes and don't use either.  The painting part itself is fun enough, but the paint thinning/mixing before hand and the messy messy clean-up after...  make me want to just use spraypaint instead. The colors that are available aren't as many compared to mixing my own, but rattle-cans are soooo much easier to use it's really no contest.

Whenever I do try brushpainting though, I always use a High-Quality brush and then I thin-down the paint a little so it will flow better. I've found thinner paints hide brush strokes easier.   I've also found that Humbrol's enamel & Vellejo's acrylic paints work best for me.  Acrylic paints, as a rule, dry quicker than oils or enamels do so I try and thin them(acrylics) even a little more and I NEVER try to finish a paint-job in 1 thick, quick coat.  2 or 3 thinner coats is always better for me.
And acrylics DON'T adhere to plastics/metals very well either so I always put down a primer/base coat first, usually Models Master's Flat Black from a, you guessed it, spraycan. Black because it helps with pre-shading a little and Flat because it has a rougher surface texture than glossy paints do so the acrylic holds on much better.

And I always try to give the paint enough time to fully dry between coats; at least 24hrs for each coat and sometimes more depending on the type of paint I'm working with. Oils dry SLOW. 

Anyway, Good Luck and remember- Keep your stick on the ice,
-Ray

 

"Artificial Inteligence is No match for Natural Stupidity" -Woody Paige

  • Member since
    March 2003
Posted by Clifford on Saturday, January 2, 2010 7:37 AM

Even though I own a couple of airbrushes I still brush paint 80% of what I do.  I don't like to use canned spray paint and I've always found it hard to get a decent finish brush painting white paint especially on large areas. ( Navy aircraft w/white under surfaces)

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Tonawanda, NY
Posted by joelster on Saturday, January 2, 2010 8:28 AM

For painting models with large flat surfaces an airbrush is the best (usually). That means the wings of an airplane hull of a ship etc........

Don't get discouraged though.

Try your painting skills on figures first. I seriously doubt there is anyone that uses an airbrush on a 1/35 figure. If you want to do some armor, practice on a piece of artillery such as a Flak 88mm. Small surfaces with little nooks and crannies can hide brush strokes, and so does zimmerit on a Panzer!

Believe it or not rattle cans can be used very effectively. There are plenty of expert modelers out there that use them.

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Bridgeview, Illinois
Posted by mg.mikael on Saturday, January 2, 2010 4:55 PM

Airbrushing.......never have, and don't have any plans to either. Once you learn the fundamentals of brush painting you be amazed by how your models look. Then it's just a matter of learning the fine tunings of your paint brush, inorder to make it do what you want, when you want.(no sexual innuendo intended.Stick out tongue)

As for myself I'm quite happy with strictly brush painting and I have yet to learn half the amazing techniques you can do with a brush(maybe because I've only been modeling for about three years.) Either way, I plan on continuing with the brush because I get amazing results and have no real want or need to get an airbrush.

Here's some of my past builds, everything brush-painted.

"A good plan executed now is better than a perfect plan next week." - George S. Patton

  Photobucket 

  • Member since
    November 2004
  • From: Cat Central, NC
Posted by Bronto on Saturday, January 2, 2010 5:04 PM

An airbrush is simply another tool to add to the toolbox.  There are things a brush can do an airbrush can't, and things an airbrush can do a brush can't.   It is not an issue of an airbrush replacing the brush, it  compliments it.  Airbrushes also do not have to break the bank. You can get a good  one for under $100, and a spray booth is not a neccesity (hell I spray here in the cab of my truck and the fumes haven't killed me yet).

  • Member since
    September 2015
  • From: The Redwood Empire
Posted by Aaronw on Saturday, January 2, 2010 5:22 PM

Another one who uses a brush. I have an airbrush and have even used it a few times, but I can do most of my modeling with a brush or a spray can which I find easier. Obviously there are going to be subjects that a brush only will make difficult, most WW2 german and italian camoflage and a flawless custom car paint job are two that come to mind. Armor and figures are probably two of the easier subjects to practice your brush technique with as they do not require a really smooth finish or have vast flat surfaces. I'm also finding WW1 aircraft nice because if you get the occasional brush stroke, so what they really were hand painted, just call it detail. Big Smile

A clear coat can also help hide minor brush strokes.

  • Member since
    December 2009
Posted by johnnyrockets on Saturday, January 2, 2010 7:34 PM

Thank you everyone!

I'll stick with the brush for now, and I'll add the airbrush if the need arises.

Thanks for super advice!

 

JR

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Denver
Posted by tankboy51 on Saturday, January 2, 2010 8:42 PM

Well, I can't imagine modeling without an airbrush and comprssor.  I abandoned brush painting my models over 40 years ago and have never considered going back to brush painting.  I just could never get good results brush painting. And I used to brush paint everything for years before I got an airbrush. Oh I use brushes for small details, figures and such.  I build mostly armor, and doing camoflage I really need an airbrush. It's also a LOT faster than brush painting.  It also is really needed, by me, for aircraft, especially German WWII paint schemes.  I've never been a fan of rattle cans. 

Now I do admire those who have mastered brushes and cans, but I consider an airbrush an essential tool, as well as a compressor.  By the way, I can't think of a time when a power outtage has stopped a project.  I mean if the powers out, so are the lights.  I don't build or paint outdoors in the sunlight.  We don't get many outages here anyway.

As if it matters, I say go ahead and brush paint or use the canned paint.  It certainly can't hurt as you master the skills.  It could easily be that you can become a master with those.  But I would also add that you may at some time consider the airbrush.  It's not a hard tool to master, and you never know  where learning this extra tool could lead to.

Have fun!

Doug

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: clinton twp,mi
Posted by humper491 on Saturday, January 2, 2010 9:19 PM

i've been modeling some 30 years, on and off. my stuff isn't good enough to put in the mag, but it's alright for me. i do a lot with an airbrush, even spray cans, but i do my best with a brush.

 just start with the basics, get a good brush and practice with your paint mixtures, not too thick not too thin. if your seeing brushstrokes, maybe add a touch of thinner to the paint, or ease up on the pressure your putting on the brush. remember, the brush is a tool, let it do the work.

keep asking questions, and keep practicing, it'll come to ya! good luck

Humper Beam

  • Member since
    December 2009
Posted by johnnyrockets on Saturday, January 2, 2010 9:19 PM

Thanks Doug!

Great point!  No sense limiting yourself!

 

And now I'm going to do what you said with it...  I'm going to "have fun"!  Toast

  • Member since
    December 2009
Posted by johnnyrockets on Saturday, January 2, 2010 9:35 PM

Thanks everyone!

 

You've all been super encouraging!

 

This has got to be the friendliest forum that I have ever been a part of!

 

You all ROCK!  Bow Down

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Canada / Czech Republic
Posted by upnorth on Sunday, January 3, 2010 5:46 AM

As has been pointed out in previous posts, the deciding factors are technique and equipment.

I started painting with brush, went to airbrush for a few years and then went right back to brush painting. I love the level of control I have when brush painting and there are some techniques, like dry brushing details, that an airbrush will never quite capture correctly.

I have no intention of returning to airbrushes any time soon.

Here's a couple of my models that were brush painted, both 1/72:




  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Green Bay, WI USA
Posted by echolmberg on Tuesday, January 5, 2010 9:41 AM

As stated in previous posts, hand brushing a model is truly an art form.  I have a couple of airbrushes and they're great and all that.  But with my last couple of planes, I've been able to get superior finishes just by hand brushing them.  I decided to hand brush them because it was late at night and I didn't want to fire up the compressor and wake the family.  So I thinned my Model Master paints a little bit and had at it with a good natural fiber brush.  I did this with a 1/78 scale dark sea blue F4U-4 Corsair.  The mirror-like finish was so far superior to anything I could have achieved with my airbrush!

Using either a paint brush or an airbrush is an art form in their own right.  But I hate it when people say that you can't build a decent model unless you have an airbrush.  It simply is wrong to say that.  It's a different way of doing things and, when done with a little bit of practice like everything else, you can achieve a stellar finish.

Eric

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: NYC, USA
Posted by waikong on Tuesday, January 5, 2010 12:09 PM

I've use brush, rattle cans, and airbrush. And I still use all 3 - depending on what effect I'm trying to do, each has its strengths and weaknesses.

In either case, build, have fun, and post pictures for us to see! Ask questions along the way, we are just bunch of enthusiastic modellers that want to share our hobby.

  • Member since
    December 2009
Posted by johnnyrockets on Tuesday, January 5, 2010 1:43 PM

Thanks you all!  Yes

 

You've all been so enlightening and really great!

 

I'm going to enjoy my paintbrush and try my hand at airbrush a bit down the road!

Like you all said, they're tools to get the job done!

 

JR.

  • Member since
    September 2007
  • From: Truro Nova Scotia, Canada
Posted by SuppressionFire on Tuesday, January 5, 2010 2:07 PM

Fine control and less masking is the only advantage a air brush has over a rattle can. Extra time is needed to get fine results with the can, mask everything you don't want painted is the rule. A plastic bag helps mask larger areas. Fine camoflage patterns can be can sprayed through paper masks and even a feathered edge if done right with some practice. Puddy masks painted at 90 degrees produces feathered edges as well. Always spray a piece of wood first to make sure canned paint is coming out fine, for some reason some colors in Tamiya enamel sprays better than others. Auto red oxide primer works great for a base coat for figures, just allow at least 24 hours dry time. That being said don't limit yourself to hobby specific cans, Plasti-coat brand works well for models and the larger can is a better value for your money than the smaller hobby ones. Silver is another color in full size that works great as well.

I like the speed of spray cans and usually just use them for base coats and camoflage patterns. Warm can in hot water (tap is hot enough, for safety reasons don't heat on stove) shake at least 1 minute, 5 preferably. Once the can no longer feels cold its warm enough. Tip upside down after done and spray untill clear, wipe the nozzel on a rag and done! I do all spray can painting outdoors or under a over hanging roof if weather is nasty, the fumes are to harsh for indoor use. Check wind direction and be upwind of work, avoiding the need for resperator.

*Never NEVER over heat or apply flame to old cans. The energy released is compairable to a gernade!

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/razordws/GB%20Badges/WMIIIGBsmall.jpg

 

 

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