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Problem with Testor Universal Thinner

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  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Peoples Socialist Democratic Republic of Illinois
Posted by Triarius on Saturday, June 12, 2010 5:34 PM

Even if you did compile a list of currently known compatibilities, it would go out of date in a short time.

I did write an extensive article on the subject of paint for them several years ago. It has never seen print.

Ross Martinek A little strangeness, now and then, is a good thing… Wink

  • Member since
    June 2010
Posted by lars1359 on Saturday, June 12, 2010 2:04 PM

Thanks to all for the helpful information.

Normally I keep to myself, especially when I screw something up.  However, I used to use Testor Airbrush Thinner (black can) for nearly everything and just assumed that its apparent successor, Universal Thinner (red can), could be used in the same way.  There might be a lot of modelers out there who will innocently make the same assumption and wreck a project before realizing there is a big difference between the two products.

I've since wondered why FSM hasn't put together a primer article on the compatibility of different products (paints, thinners, solvents, etc.).  I used to see the world as simply split into acrylic/water-based products and oil-based products, and all I thought you needed to know was that you can't mix them (but you can use one type to protect the other).  Obviously there is more to the chemistry of model-making than that.  I'm a bit embarrassed to admit it, but after almost 20 years, I only recently learned about the differences between lacquers and enamels (another goof on the same project).  I've just never had a problem until now, and obviously a lot of you are farther along in that respect so this information is very useful.

 

Lars

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Peoples Socialist Democratic Republic of Illinois
Posted by Triarius on Saturday, June 12, 2010 10:03 AM

Naptha is a blend of light fraction hydrocarbons, often called "white gasoline" or "Coleman fuel" in the US. Being  low molecular weight it's possible that it will dissolve Future or other acrylics, though I've never tried it.

As far as I'm concerned, finding a "universal" reducing solvent blend for acrylics is problematic at best. Universal for both enamels and acrylics may be bleeding into science fiction. But I'm sure certain corporate entities are more than capable of finding something that almost works and marketing it. And yes, I'm old enough to be that cynical.

Ross Martinek A little strangeness, now and then, is a good thing… Wink

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: A Spartan in the Wolverine State
Posted by rjkplasticmod on Saturday, June 12, 2010 8:09 AM

That's a very high concentration of Naptha.  Naptha is commonly used as a dry cleaning agent and as lighter fluid.  I've never tried it on Future, but have used it as a paint stripper for enamels.

Regards,  Rick

RICK At My Age, I've Seen It All, Done It All, But I Don't Remember It All...
  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Saturday, June 12, 2010 5:13 AM

I suspect the 25-30% Naptha in the mix doesn't help the situation much either.

 

  • Member since
    June 2009
Posted by jimbot58 on Saturday, June 12, 2010 4:20 AM

jimbot58

According to MSDS info, it does contain a type of alcohol called n-propoxy propanol.

 

Oops, I just repeated what the previous poster already stated...Embarrassed

*******

On my workbench now:

It's all about classic cars now!

Why can't I find the "Any" key on my keyboard?

 

 

 

  • Member since
    June 2009
Posted by jimbot58 on Saturday, June 12, 2010 4:18 AM

According to MSDS info, it does contain a type of alcohol called n-propoxy propanol.

*******

On my workbench now:

It's all about classic cars now!

Why can't I find the "Any" key on my keyboard?

 

 

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Saturday, June 12, 2010 3:47 AM

rjkplasticmod

Alcohol & Ammonia are the solvents for Future.  I don't have any of the red can thinner, but check the label to see if it contains either of these solvents.  Certainly sounds like it does.

Regards,  Rick

Bingo...

Contains petroleum distillates and n-propoxypropanol (read: alcohol)...

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: A Spartan in the Wolverine State
Posted by rjkplasticmod on Friday, June 11, 2010 6:33 PM

Alcohol & Ammonia are the solvents for Future.  I don't have any of the red can thinner, but check the label to see if it contains either of these solvents.  Certainly sounds like it does.

Regards,  Rick

RICK At My Age, I've Seen It All, Done It All, But I Don't Remember It All...
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Peoples Socialist Democratic Republic of Illinois
Posted by Triarius on Friday, June 11, 2010 5:14 PM

Testors "universal" thinner probably contains one or more alcohols. Alcohol will attack Future, or any of the other acrylic paints that use an alcohol solvent system.

Just use odorless mineral spirits—won't affect Future unless you soak it for quite a few hours.

Ross Martinek A little strangeness, now and then, is a good thing… Wink

  • Member since
    June 2010
Problem with Testor Universal Thinner
Posted by lars1359 on Friday, June 11, 2010 4:04 PM

Recently submitted to the FSM tip department...

FSM -

I may have discovered a potential incompatibility between Testor's new Universal Enamel Thinner (red metal can) and Future Floor Polish.

For nearly 15 years, I have been using the almost universally recommended detailing and weathering method of adding enamel washes over a coat of Future which protects the enamel and metalizer paints beneath.  I apply the Future in several consecutive, light layers and allow the entire coat to cure for 4-5 days.  In the past I've wiped the wash away using Testor Airbrush Thinner (black can) and q-tips, cotton balls, or tissue paper, always with excellent results.

As I believe Testor Airbrush Thinner is no longer available, I used the Universal Thinner (red can) for the first time on my most recent project.  Unfortunately, I discovered a potential problem when attempting to remove a wash I had applied over Future.  Using a q-tip and just a bare amount of thinner, the Future began to soften after only a few strokes to the point that cotton fibers became embedded.  In trying to remove the cotton residue with more thinner, I rather quickly stripped the Future and the underlying paint down to the bare plastic.  This also occurred in spots where I had several paint-Future-paint-Future layers.

I should note that I mix my washes using enamels, a small amount of clear gloss finish, and thinner.  I let each wash dry at least a day after application.

After some experimenting, I believe the issue is with the Universal Thinner.  Maybe it's too strong even for cured Future.  And since I'm now using that same thinner to make the wash, I'm possible already weakening or otherwise affecting the Future during application of the wash before unknowingly delivering the coup de grace when I try to remove it with more thinner.

I found that Turpenoid did not cause the same problem, but unfortunately I don't have any more of the old Airbrush Thinner (black can) to determine if it's a problem with my bottle of Future, which admittedly is about 13 years old.  I did finish a project a few months ago using the same bottle of Future and Airbrush Thinner and did not have any problem with removing washes applied over the Future.

Given the number of sources (including countless FSM articles) which recommend using Future to protect paint from subsequent detailing and weathering methods, I imagine there are a lot of modelers who would be interested in this potential problem.

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