Why you should avoid LuckyModel

I deplore these kinds of threads, where an online merchant gets bad publicity without the means to rebut. There have been numerous posts about Lucky Model and ordering only those items that show as "in stock" as opposed to "available". In fact, Lucky Model has a policy page that states the difference:

3. Product Availability

The product availability estimate refers to the time it will take the item to leave our fulfillment center once you place your order. The product availability will be shown on each detailed product description screen. The product availability will show as:

In Stock

Available (available to order)

Backorder

Preorder

The listed availability might not be applicable for sudden increase in demand for an item. If any items in your order proved to be unavailable, we will inform you for details. All items from an order not in stock and with uncertain availability or discontinued items will not be backordered.

Batai,

I invite you to shop at our store (www.spruebrothers.com).  At our shop, our inventory is shown online in real time.  This way you know exactly what you will get.  We ship normally within 1 business day or less after receiving acceptable payment.  If you are in the USA, most likely you will get your order from us in 1 to 5 days (exact time depends where you live and which shipping method).

Immediately after completing checkout, if you go back to the items you purchased, you will see the inventory shown now is less the number you purchased.  This way there is never any backorders and no one buys the item from underneath you as what you ordered is reserved for you.

If you have any questions about how we do things, please feel free to contact us at sales@spruebrothers,com.

Regards,

Gordon

Sprue Brothers Models LLC

www.spruebrothers.com

My Atomic is this bad too. They won't even answer the phone or answer emails.

Oh man.

First of all iraqiwild, we only have your word on the problem with My Atomic, I've never even heard of them, but these kinds of critiques are not fair without their "side of the story".

Gordon, it goes against the policies around here to advertise your services, particularily under the circumstances, but that's none of my business. bad form, though.

Bill I'm with you. I dread the day when (not if) some competitor with an axe to grind trashes my business online and puts me out on the street.

Batai, I feel your pain, really. Stuff like that happens to all of us. The best thing to do though is to egress from the deal, without trashing them, because they may take it as a reason to be even more unresponsive. I would.

Just my

Bill

Bgrigg

Your failure to read the policy of the online store you have chosen to order from is not the merchant's responsibility. You inquired about the delivery and they responded quickly and respectfully, and you resort to slandering them online using foul language. The consumer has a responsibility to fully understand their part of the process, which you have failed to do.

I have used Lucky Model many times, and they have been an excellent and economical source of models and supplies. I will happily continue to use and recommend them. And I don't have to resort to expletives to do so.

Well said, Bill.  I agree 100%.

Batai,

It sucks that this happened to you, but that is why they post their policy.  I too once ordered something from Luckymodel that was 'Available' but not 'In Stock'.  When I realized my mistake, they were very good about refunding my money.

LuckyModel has been GREAT to me.

It's hard to get their side when they will not answer.

Bgrigg

I deplore these kinds of threads, where an online merchant gets bad publicity without the means to rebut. There have been numerous posts about Lucky Model and ordering only those items that show as "in stock" as opposed to "available". In fact, Lucky Model has a policy page that states the difference:

3. Product Availability

The product availability estimate refers to the time it will take the item to leave our fulfillment center once you place your order. The product availability will be shown on each detailed product description screen. The product availability will show as:

In Stock

Available (available to order)

Backorder

Preorder

The listed availability might not be applicable for sudden increase in demand for an item. If any items in your order proved to be unavailable, we will inform you for details. All items from an order not in stock and with uncertain availability or discontinued items will not be backordered.

Your failure to read the policy of the online store you have chosen to order from is not the merchant's responsibility. You inquired about the delivery and they responded quickly and respectfully, and you resort to slandering them online using foul language. The consumer has a responsibility to fully understand their part of the process, which you have failed to do.

I have used Lucky Model many times, and they have been an excellent and economical source of models and supplies. I will happily continue to use and recommend them. And I don't have to resort to expletives to do so.

 

They're free to reply and rebut at anytime...certainly they have the means if they're doing business on the internet.  If I were them, I'd be paying attention to what gets said on the various modeling boards...if they're not, that's their problem, and I'd take that as an indication that they're not all that concerned about it. I know for a fact that lots of vendors do keep up with the various discussion boards (including this one), and will often promptly reply to user complaints. I'm sure not going out of my way to offer them the opportunity by sending them a link, since they didn't extend me the courtesy of notifying me short of my inquiry that it would be 2 mos. to get my order, after taking my money for merchandise that isn't available to ship.

Two months is an absurdity, as is taking a customer's payment for items they don't have available for immediate shipment. Employing ambiguous terms in the ordering process, and expecting the customer to navigate rather arcane explanations about them before committing to an order isn't on the high-end of business practices IMO. It's just an example of a poorly-designed web ordering system.

As for my choice of language, you really need to get off your self-righteous high horse and get over it. My choice of language has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand, and if it offends your sensibilities please know that I don't particularly care or apologize for it, and don't intend to.

I will however comment on your choice of language, specifically the accusation of slander against LM. Like LuckyModel, if you're going to employ a language it's usually a good idea to know how, i.e. what words mean. In this case, slander isn't applicable since nothing I said was untrue. Dictionary.com is only a click away.

Their ordering system is rather byzantine, a description I've read others use (should have listened to them). Other vendors like SprueBros. don't employ this stupid gray area called "availability"...they either have it to ship immediately or don't, and they don't take your money if they don't have it to ship, or take it then fail to proactively notify you that it will take 2 mos. to get your order. I don't care if LM has a policy page explaining all this...the point is that it should be more straightforward, and they especially shouldn't be charging customers for merchandise they don't actually have in stock.

Getting back to the subject of language, it appears that you have failed to read and understand their policy within the current context, not to mention having failed to understand some basic terminology and definitions (from your quote above):

Available (available to order)

Backorder

Taking 2 mos. to fulfill an order is hardly making it "available"...that's a backorder. "Available to order" is a ridiculous nonsense concept and misleading. It's either available to ship, or it's not. Either they have it or they don't. If they don't have an inventory item in stock ready to ship that they normally carry, but have to order it from elsewhere, that's a backorder. Frankly I'm not sure their command of english is particularly accurate with regard to the definitions of these particular terms.

Also:

"The listed availability might not be applicable for sudden increase in demand for an item. If any items in your order proved to be unavailable, we will inform you for details. All items from an order not in stock and with uncertain availability or discontinued items will not be backordered."

O.K. so why would they notify you if it's "unavailable", but not notify you (short of you sending an email asking why they're taking so long to fill your order) that it would take months to get back in stock? And again, a 2 mo. window for shipment is not what I would consider "available"...that's a backorder, and it definitely doesn't qualify as anthing close to certain availability in my book, in terms of being actually available after I've paid for something. That's not me debating semantics, there are commonly-accpeted notions of what constitutes "available" and what is really a "backorder". This is sheer mystification on the part of the vendor, and arcane policies are not only needlessly confusing they're also usually a sign that the vendor is employing some possibly dubious business practices (as in the case here). Such policies are also more likely to result in miscommunication and misunderstandings...is that in their best interests? I would think not.

That anyone would actually defend this sort of policy and practice is just amazing to me, and indicates that some people just aren't as discerning in who they choose to do business with as others may be. If your experiences have been more positive than mine, well that's great. I'd say you've just been lucky (no pun intended), because I've read quite a few comments about the negative experiences in dealing with LM, in particular concerning their practice of charging customers for items they don't have available for immediate shipment, not to mention the frequently lengthy wait times. Oh, and they charge an extra 4% for PayPal transactions...that's the first time I've heard of (or more specifically dealt with) a vendor that did that, and I know SprueBros. mentions that some vendors do this on their site (they don't do that).

Should I have navigated the site more carefully to fully understand the ordering process and terms?

Maybe.

Or maybe it shouldn't have to be as byzantine as it is. Possibly someone ought to revisit a dictionary to understand what "available" and "backorder" actually mean in the business sense. Like perhaps this definition of backorder:

"An order that cannot be currently filled or shipped, but is requested nonetheless for when the item becomes available again."

I wouldn't have ordered from them had I scrutinzed their policies more carefully, and they would have lost a sale anyway because I need those paints in the near future...2 mos. is too long for me to wait and would hold up the progress of the project I need those paints for. So in this case, their policies would have worked against them had I more fully explored their system.

My point is it shouldn't and doesn't have to be that arcane and should be more straightforward, and they sure as hell shouldn't be taking money for stuff they don't have available for immediate shipment and then expect the customer to wait 2 friggin' months without even notifying them of such an eventuality short of an additional inquiry on the part of the customer, and then confusing the whole matter by employing language in their policies that's not appropriate for the context.  Only after they took my money, and then after I sent an email asking why after more than a week the order was still "in progress" did they inform me about the order taking 2 mos. That's just bad communication. Maybe they should work on that. Doesn't really matter from my perspective, because I absolutely won' t deal with a company that takes customers' money for stuff they don't actually have available to ship when the order is placed, and then confuses the process with bad use of english that IMO is a deliberate mystification calculated for their benefit, not for the convenience and benefit of the customer.

Unfortunately, the Gunze Aqueous paints aren't being exported anymore and the overseas retailers appear to be the only ones that carry them (SB has them, but the selection is very limited because of the export issue).

spruebrothers

Batai,

I invite you to shop at our store (www.spruebrothers.com).  At our shop, our inventory is shown online in real time.  This way you know exactly what you will get.  We ship normally within 1 business day or less after receiving acceptable payment.  If you are in the USA, most likely you will get your order from us in 1 to 5 days (exact time depends where you live and which shipping method).

Immediately after completing checkout, if you go back to the items you purchased, you will see the inventory shown now is less the number you purchased.  This way there is never any backorders and no one buys the item from underneath you as what you ordered is reserved for you.

If you have any questions about how we do things, please feel free to contact us at sales@spruebrothers,com.

Regards,

Gordon

Sprue Brothers Models LLC

www.spruebrothers.com

Oh, I've done lots of biz with you guys. Been very, very pleased, and as you can see from reply above I've used you as a comparison to LM insofar as what I think is an appropriate way to do business with regard to what you actually have or don't have in stock. You guys do it right IMO.

 Unfortunately, while you still have some of the Gunze Aqueous paints in stock, you don't have the colors I need. I was going to order the Mr. Color RLM 75/76, but you're currently OOS of the 76 although I've indicated notification when you have it back in stock. The other alternative is the LifeColor Luftwaffe aircraft set that includes RLM 75/76 although I'd be paying for paint I don't currently need (but probably will in the future), but I've not tried the LIfeColor line although I hear they're good.

bbrowniii

Batai,

It sucks that this happened to you, but that is why they post their policy.  I too once ordered something from Luckymodel that was 'Available' but not 'In Stock'.  When I realized my mistake, they were very good about refunding my money.

LuckyModel has been GREAT to me.

It's a bad policy as I've already indicated. Posting it doesn't change that fact. I'm going to assume I won't have any issues getting a refund, and thankfully the order wasn't for that much $$ anyway. I've heard both good and bad about them, but the bad has been of the same kind of issue that I had so my situation with them is hardly unique.

iraqiwildman

My Atomic is this bad too. They won't even answer the phone or answer emails.

I had a similar issue with them, and they didn't initially answer my email either...I had to call them, but I got my stuff the following week as promised. At least no one expected me to wait 2 months for it.

I prefer to shop with stores where it is unnecessary to read their policies.  Maybe you could clarify the difference between Available (available to order) versus Backorder.  To me its unclear since the items in question were backordered.

iraqiwildman

It's hard to get their side when they will not answer.

stuboyle

I prefer to shop with stores where it is unnecessary to read their policies.  Maybe you could clarify the difference between Available (available to order) versus Backorder.  To me its unclear since the items in question were backordered.

Essentially it appears that they're playing semantic games with the words "available" and "backorder" as if they're interchangeable. They're not. And it's dishonest if you ask me.

I posted this same thread on a couple of other boards, and I'm getting responses from people saying basically the same things as me, including that LM doesn't use a real-time inventory system and items that showed "in stock" at the time of ordering switched to "available" after checking out. So people pay for something advertised as in stock, only for it to become OOS (or "available" if you're using the LuckyModel definition of OOS) after paying. That's BAD.

The fact is, as I've already indicated, not having something in stock ready to ship but having to acquire it elsewhere while taking the customer's money is in fact a BACKORDER. It doesn't really matter if it's in one of their warehouses somewhere else, and in point of fact I can't understand anyway why it takes 2 MONTHS to get something from your own warehouse, even if it is geographically located elsewhere.

Ridiculous.

Tamiya is the same way for replacing kit parts that they don't have in stock, in my case for a part I was also told 2 months for them to get it. It's been longer than that now, and I still haven't received the part or any kind of an update despite them having my email address.

Baitai,

The thing with posting policies, whether good or bad, is that the consumer can read them and decide whether or not to buy. before putting their money on the line. Interesting, FSM also has rules about the usage of their forum. These rules prohibit posting discussions that are defamatory, libelous, vulgar or profane, but apparently you didn't read those, either. Here's a reminder:

1. We restrict any language that inhibits any other user from using and enjoying the reader forums. Transmission of any unlawful, threatening, abusive, libelous, defamatory, obscene, vulgar, pornographic, profane, or indecent information of any kind, including without limitation any transmissions constituting or encouraging conduct that would constitute a criminal offense, give rise to civil liability or otherwise violate any local, state, national, or international law will not be tolerated.

It is not my high horse to get off, I swear like a SOB, just not online. The hosts have asked us not to. Same with defamatory posts, which this clearly is.

It might be a stupid policy, but that's the cost of doing business with Lucky Model, as speaking politely is a cost to post here.

Bgrigg

Baitai,

The thing with posting policies, whether good or bad, is that the consumer can read them and decide whether or not to buy. before putting their money on the line. Interesting, FSM also has rules about the usage of their forum. These rules prohibit posting discussions that are defamatory, libelous, vulgar or profane, but apparently you didn't read those, either. Here's a reminder:

Actually I did read them, and I don't think my OP meets any of those criteria. O.K. so I used a couple of naughty words, but the discussion as such doesn't meet any of those criteria...not even close. It's a criticism of a company engaging in what I perceive as questionable business practices. You're just disagreeing because your experiences have been positive, and you're entitled to disagree. You're not entitled to falsely accuse other members of engaging in slander or defamation, especially when you don't appear to actually know what those two words even mean, and by extension accuse them of violating the rules of this board.

Same with defamatory posts, which this clearly is.

No, it clearly isn't to anyone familiar with the definition of that word. Defamation also involves untrue statements intended to malign someone, and nothing I said was untrue. This is as false as accusing me of slander. Slander BTW involves the spoken word, not written, when written it would be considered libel (though not in this case). Guess you didn't take my suggestion about Dictionary.com

It's up to the buyer to make informed decisions about who to buy from, and my post is hardly the only negative one out there (want a link to the other responses on other boards I've been getting?). If I had read a post like mine, or some of the others I've been seeing, then I probably wouldn't have bought from them. And from my perspective, that would have been a wise decision.

On the other hand, the reason I did buy from them was because of posts I've read here that were positive, in fact if not for my participation here I don't think I had even ever heard of Lucky Model before now. Is it fair to the consumer to only be exposed to the positive aspects of how a company does business? Maybe for the suckers who are born everyday.

It's supposed to be a free market, you're acting like the consumer shouldn't be entitled to know the negative aspects of a particular business. I think they are. And I didn't see anything in the rules specifically prohibiting posts about negative experiences with vendors.

It might be a stupid policy, but that's the cost of doing business with Lucky Model, as speaking politely is a cost to post here

If by that you mean the cost being putting up with questionable business practices in order to spend money on their merchandise, I'll pass. Frankly that seems kind of stupid. And what exactly is polite about personally maligning me by falsely accusing me of slander and defamation, which also isn't particularly intelligent either considering that you pretty obviously don't actually know what either means or entails? That's commonly referred to as "bearing false witness", and I'm pretty sure that accusing me stuff like that does violate one rule or another of this board.

Hmmm... Well:

A) Bill did qualify his statement to suggest that you were 'slandering them online', so even though it might not be the 'Dictionary.com' definition, it is pretty clear to anyone who read his post what he meant.  That is the great thing about language.  It can be adapted and modified to suite a whole host of diverse and unique situations.

B) You imply above that people who have done business with LuckyModel, and who have had a positive experience and will continue to use that company are the 'suckers born every minute'.

and

C) You really don't have anything to complain about.  You ramble on in your post on page one about how unreasonable it is to have to wait for an item for two months, with no notification.  Well, the label 'AVAILABLE' is your notification!  If you have learned about LuckyModel HERE, than I am surprised you had this problem since the vast majority of posts that I am familiar with that mention LuckyModel also warn people to pay attention to the status of the item.  It is like people who buy something on E-Bay than complain about the postage they have to pay, even though the postage was clearly shown in the auction. 

You know, in one sense, I agree with you - it would be easier if LuckyModel had a simpler catalogue system.  But they don't.  So, on the plus side, you have the benefit of some really good stuff at really good prices.  On the negative side, if your stuff isn't in stock, you have to wait for it.  If the bad outweighs the good, don't use the site (as I suspect you won't any more..).  But it is not as if you, 'the consumer' don' t have access to 'all the negative stuff'.  Their policies are posted AND, apparently, you are a member of any number of forums at which you could have posted a thread asking people's opinion BEFORE you ordered.

FSM has a policy btw that posting profanity disguised with dingbats or such is no different from the genuine article, and that has given me pause quite a few times to stop and get my hackles back down. it's a good rule.

In every discussion about LM that I've seen, whether here on FSM or on other sites, there are three pieces of advice which are ALWAYS mentioned and recommended:

1. Only order items which are listed as "In Stock" because "available" means they don't have it in stock and it is expected to be restocked when they next receive a shipment from their supplier.
2. If you want an item listed as "available", contact them first and ask when the next restock is expected.
3. When placing the order, you have an option to ship the complete order or ship what's actually ready to ship (ie. split the shipment if required). Always split the shipment. (They do not charge you extra shipping for split shipments)

I ordered some paint last Monday evening (19 July) and as of this morning (27 July), it's on my bench.

bbrowniii

Hmmm... Well:

A) Bill did qualify his statement to suggest that you were 'slandering them online', so even though it might not be the 'Dictionary.com' definition, it is pretty clear to anyone who read his post what he meant.  That is the great thing about language.  It can be adapted and modified to suite a whole host of diverse and unique situations.

Now that's really reaching. What's clear is that he cast an aspersion on me using a word he doesn't know the definition of. I realize this is the internet, but don't insult my intelligence with a B.S. argument like this by implying the rules for language are "adaptable" or "modifiable" according to whatever happens to suit the speaker/writer at the time, especially when trying to be convincing. That's an astoundingly dumb assertion. I am singularly unconvinced by someone who is inept in the use of language, whether it's online or in a law school lecture. That's communications skills 101.

If you're raising kids, do you want them to learn what words mean, or whatever they want them to mean, ascribing definitions at will according to whatever suits them at the time? That attitude is just pure nonsense. Sure, language evolves, but let's say I called you a common expletive and you took offense. Well gee, I could just rationalize it all away by saying "No, that word means something else in this instance for me, because I want it to, and besides this is the internet". What about the rules for profane language on this board? Using your reasoning, if I got popped using bad language I should be able to duck responsibility by just saying "Ah, but I define that word otherwise...what I meant is that this person is really an upstanding guy,  nevermind what most people say the word means". See my point? Use of language has rules for a reason.

B) You imply above that people who have done business with LuckyModel, and who have had a positive experience and will continue to use that company are the 'suckers born every minute'.

Nope, that's not what I was implying. You misinterpreted. As a matter of fairness, a buyer should be allowed to be informed about the cons of dealing with a company as well as the pros, including posts like this for which I've been knocked. AFAIC, anyone who's had a positive experience with LM should continue doing business with them. Just don't be surprised if you run into the same issue as I someday.

C) You really don't have anything to complain about.  You ramble on in your post on page one about how unreasonable it is to have to wait for an item for two months, with no notification.  Well, the label 'AVAILABLE' is your notification!  If you have learned about LuckyModel HERE, than I am surprised you had this problem since the vast majority of posts that I am familiar with that mention LuckyModel also warn people to pay attention to the status of the item.  It is like people who buy something on E-Bay than complain about the postage they have to pay, even though the postage was clearly shown in the auction.

Yes, I really do have something to complain about. Evidently you agree, since noticeably present here is a general indirect acknowledgement by you  that their ordering system sucks, and that this has been the subject of the"vast majority" of posts here about LM. That's the thrust of my "rant". Thanks for making my argument for me, not that I needed any help really. I've already adequately addressed the ambiguity of language LM employs on their site regarding the B.S. usage of "availability", namely that it's essentially misleading and you appear to agree. BTW, reading the postage for something selling on Ebay bears no resemblance to this situation at all...that's a totally false analogy since it really doesn't take anything extra to read it right there in the item description. LM forces you to peruse throughout the site just to understand the availability of their stock. That's just stupid, and it's hard for me to believe that people feel compelled to make ordering stuff that complicated.

And no, I didn't do an exhaustive study of posts by people here or on other boards about dealing with LM...I just remember a post here and there that people used them regularly, and went by that. My mistake. That doesn't negate the fact that their ordering system is crap and potentially misleading in terms of inventory availability.

But it is not as if you, 'the consumer' don' t have access to 'all the negative stuff'.  Their policies are posted AND, apparently, you are a member of any number of forums at which you could have posted a thread asking people's opinion BEFORE you ordered.

O.K. thanks for validating my viewpoint and rationale for posting this, since what I'm doing here is providing an account and opinion about my experience, which is exactly what a potential buyer might want to know about before spending their money according to your suggestion.

Their ordering and inventory policies and process are B.S. and you even went out of your way to point out that I should have done my homework on this company before ordering. In other words, where this company is concerned caveat emptor applies...which is essentially all I've been saying all along in this thread. Thanks for playing.

bondoman

FSM has a policy btw that posting profanity disguised with dingbats or such is no different from the genuine article, and that has given me pause quite a few times to stop and get my hackles back down. it's a good rule.

And is probably the most ignored "rule" on this board.

Well, I do know the definition, but you apparently have a different dictionary:

Slander

–noun

1.

defamation; calumny: rumors full of slander.

2.

a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report: a slander against his good name.

3.

Law . defamation by oral utterance rather than by writing, pictures, etc.

This sounds to me of being a case of 6 of one and half dozen of the other. The original poster is at fault for not reading the policy. I know i never read them, but if i get caught out, thats my fault. But, how much easier would it be simply to say an item is out of stock. Saying it is avalible is confuseing. As for takeing the money, that is bang out of order. I have never had a company due that to me. I mainly get my stuff from hannants, i do alot of orders with them. Prior to their recent site upgrade which now has live stock, it was very rare for an item to have gone out of stock between their last update and me placeing the order. But when it did happen, i was simply billed for the items they had and not the ones they didn't. To take the money when they don't have the item isn't on.

As to the point about writing posts about model stores and companies, i think we have to be very careful. There are some people who may just have a gripe for one reason or another. But, this is a model forum, and where better to tell other people of our experiances, good and bad, with the companies we are dealing with. I know the Amin guys can't allow advertising on here, but luckly they seem to be very leniant in what they allow us to say about companies. I have noticed a number of posts warning others about bad practice. As ,ong as it isn't done in a vindictive way, simply stating the facts as you see it, it can then allow others to make there own mind up.

Bgrigg

Well, I do know the definition, but you apparently have a different dictionary:

Yeah the legal kind, and since slander is a legal term I defer to it.

Slander

Falsely spoken words that tend to damage another person’s reputation; defamation. The truth of such words is an absolute defense against slander. Unlike libel, unless the slander is defamatory per se, damages caused by slander must be proven by the plaintiff. See also libel. (emphasis mine)

From law.com:

slander
n. oral defamation, in which someone tells one or more persons an untruth about another, which untruth will harm the reputation of the person defamed. (emphasis mine)

Bgrigg

You stated that they didn't have that policy anywhere on their site, but they did.

Where did you pull that out of (although I think I can guess)?

Wrong. Here's what I actually said, please try to refer to the actual post next time if you're going to play this game further:

batai37

Nowhere on the site did I see a description of "Available" to mean something is not actually in stock and ready to ship, but has to be backordered, and although they didn't have it to ship they certainly didn't hesitate to charge me for the items. Maybe I missed it, I don't know. (emphasis added)

I didn't see it, I never said it didn't exist. Notice I also mentioned that I might have missed the explanations (and I did). I further acknowledged this in another post. So that's me being intellectually honest, as opposed to intellectually dishonest (what you said).

Bgrigg

You entitled your thread "Why you should avoid Lucky Model". You cast aspertations that they knowingly defrauded you, and has alleged that they may be tardy in refunding your money. Sounds defamatory to me.

Well I imagine all sorts of things sound like all sorts of things to you, but I never accused them of fraud, nor did I say that I expected them to take their time refunding my money. In fact, in another post I said "I'm going to assume I won't have any issues getting a refund..."  Another misrepresentation on your part. A less polite term would be "lie", but we're all about being polite aren't we?

Bgrigg

You're whinging about paint. Think about how serious that is in the scheme of life and adjust yourself accordingly. And grow up. Swear words are the refuge of the ignorant, regardless of whether or not people ignore the rules.

No I'm complaining about a particular aspect of a company's ordering process, it wouldn't much matter if it were paint or a Mercedes Benz, and justifiably so judging from the responses here and also on other boards I've posted this to.

Speaking of the ignorant, the surest sign of an ignorant intellect is poor usage of language especially if you're trying to convince someone of your viewpoint. Then there's the thing about reading comprehension, but I think I've made my point. BTW didn't you say earlier that you "swear like an SOB"? So regarding swearing as being "the refuge of the ignorant" I guess you managed to insult yourself - now that's comedy!

As far as your "advice" about growing up, well hey buddy...at least I have a command of the english language above the junior high level. You're really not up to this, especially if you can't even properly quote what I've posted for everyone to see, unedited, which is also pretty blatant intellectual dishonesty...or just plain dishonest if you prefer.

Believe it or not, I'd much rather get along with you than not. You seem like a nice guy. But you have to understand that if you're going to reply to me, especially if in negative terms, I'm going to respond in kind.

Have a nice day.

*Edited to add: oops I inserted the last paragraph before I saw your last post calling me an idiot. Oh well, can't say I at least didn't try to seem conciliatory, if only a little. Have a great life.

Well, aren't you the legal beagle? By the way, defamation cases have been won, even though the statements made are true. In your case, they are not. You didn't see, because you didn't look. But right at the bottom of the website, where you expect to see such things, it clearly says POLICY. You should take your exalted eduction and learn to use it for good instead of evil.

I also said I swear, but not online. Knowing when and where is important.

But since you've decided to attack me personally, you're an idiot and I'm done with you.

That reply gets a big ol' ROFLMAO.

What's an "eduction"? Oh that's right, you're done. So long sport, go build a model. I'm sure you're much better at that.

batai37

Now that's really reaching. What's clear is that he cast an aspersion on me using a word he doesn't know the definition of. I realize this is the internet, but don't insult my intelligence with a B.S. argument like this by implying the rules for language are "adaptable" or "modifiable" according to whatever happens to suit the speaker/writer at the time, especially when trying to be convincing. That's an astoundingly dumb assertion. I am singularly unconvinced by someone who is inept in the use of language, whether it's online or in a law school lecture. That's communications skills 101.

If you're raising kids, do you want them to learn what words mean, or whatever they want them to mean, ascribing definitions at will according to whatever suits them at the time? That attitude is just pure nonsense. Sure, language evolves, but let's say I called you a common expletive and you took offense. Well gee, I could just rationalize it all away by saying "No, that word means something else in this instance for me, because I want it to, and besides this is the internet". What about the rules for profane language on this board? Using your reasoning, if I got popped using bad language I should be able to duck responsibility by just saying "Ah, but I define that word otherwise...what I meant is that this person is really an upstanding guy,  nevermind what most people say the word means". See my point? Use of language has rules for a reason.

You are absolutely correct, Herr Wordsmith... there are rules for how language is used...  But you missed my point - which surprises me, based on your professed mastery of the English language.  Oh, but I am sure that the fault must lie with this humble scribe, whose musing and mutterings are simply too unsophisticated for one of your esteemed stature.

But to be clear, I'm pretty confident that just about everyone understood what Bill meant when he said you were 'slandering them online'.

By the way, who decided we had to use your legal dictionary?  You were referring to Dictionary.com, but when Bill trotted out a definition, suddenly his dictionary isn't good enough, and we have to use yours?  But, wait, how can that be?  If there are rules for the use of language, shouldn't they be univeral (at least within the same language)?  So, shouldn't the definitions of words between dictionaries be the same?

Isn't it cool how we have moved from talking about LuckyModel to debating the merits of various dictionaries.  Ahhhh, the internet, I do love it so..........

I have very positive experience with LuckyModel.  They ship promptly, pricing is fantastic.

I will have no problem ordering any models or accessories from them.

Swear words (even ones with letters blocked out by cute characters) have no place on this Forum. And this kind discussion that stoops to name calling and hair pulling doesn't either.

Lock.

Cheers, Aaron