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Electrical question from a history major

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  • Member since
    June 2010
  • From: Austin, TX
Electrical question from a history major
Posted by DoogsATX on Saturday, July 2, 2011 8:07 PM

Hoping somebody on here knows their stuff and can pat me on the head for asking such stupid questions, but here goes!

I'm trying to get into dioramas, or at least to build a nice little shooting mat that I can combine with Photoshop to churn out some realistic "in environment" photos.

Here's my proof of concept for the idea:

One aspect of all this is laying down realistic grass, and so I'm planning to build a static grass applicator to use with flock grass. I've watched the tutorial on building such an applicator out of a Harbor Freight electric flyswatter and that much, at least, makes sense (from offroading an old Land Rover, I do have experience wiring things in creative ways).

But even in the video, it seems rather underpowered.

I've seen on some other forums people tracking down ion generators or some such, but I'm wondering - why wouldn't any electrical circuit work?

The concept, as I understand it, us that the positive lead goes to the grass hopper. The ground goes to a small nail driven into the diorama base. This then automagically generates the static electricity that makes the flock fibers stand vertically.

But why wouldn't that be the case with anything with a positive and negative? I mean, could a flashlight's guts be modified to work? Or literally any power supply, some wires, and an on-off switch?

Or am I being silly?

On the Bench: 1/32 Trumpeter P-47 | 1/32 Hasegawa Bf 109G | 1/144 Eduard MiG-21MF x2

On Deck:  1/350 HMS Dreadnought

Blog/Completed Builds: doogsmodels.com

 

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: Scotland
Posted by Milairjunkie on Sunday, July 3, 2011 6:06 AM

You could do it with a torch, but I think you would need to add an ionizer / ion generator to it. I'm assuming that the electronic fly swatter may have one fitted & that's why it's used, again I'm not 100% certain, but I think that the ion generator is required to polarize the grass fibers & the torch / battery or whatever else you use will cause the grass to be attracted from the dispenser to subjects surface?

The Noch grassmaster,

http://www.noch.de/en/bastel_tipps/en_06graeser_wiesen_felder.php is available from Micro-Mark, but like most of these ready to go models it isn't exactly cheap.

  • Member since
    March 2010
Posted by shoot&scoot on Sunday, July 3, 2011 6:15 AM

Not just any electrical circuit will work for your static grass applicator.  The way these things work is by passing an electrical current between a wire screen (grass applicator) and an electrical ground (diorama base).  As the flock grass is sifted through the screen and falls toward the base the grasss strands align with the electrical field lines causing them to "stand up" as they hit the base.

The problem is that you need at least an inch or more distance from the applicator to the base and the only way to bridge the gap is by applying a lot of bias or voltage.  The reason for this is that field strength drops off to the square of the distance.  In other words, double the distance you wish to cover and you have to increase the voltage by a factor of four.

For this reason these grass applicators need on the order of 5000-10,000 volts to cover the one to two inches of distance between the screen and the base.  Ion generators develop this level of voltage as do bug zappers, electric fly swatters and automobile ignition systems hence the reason these devices are recommended for building said applicator.  HTH.

                                                                                                  Pat. 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Sunday, July 3, 2011 12:41 PM

Model railroaders are the big users of grass.  Certainly not all use electro-static for grass.  Look in MR section of hobby shop and see what is available.  I use prepared mats that have a paper backing that can be glued to base with white glue.  Two varieties available- one is pristine green like well watered and weeded lawn.  The other has brown spots like it doesn't always get super care.  This kind is better for airfields, in my opinion.

There are other products also that do not use flocking and electro-statics.  Again, carefully peruse hobby shop.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Sunday, July 3, 2011 2:00 PM

IMNSHO, those grass mats are useless in any scale bigger than 1/72, Don, unless your diorama is on a putting green...  They don't look even close to real in 1/48 and bigger scales...  Same with that shredded foam foliage.. In the larger scales, they look like..Well, foam...  Static grass is much better-looking, IMHO, and diorama-builders that use the grass mats don't fair well at contests either...  It also comes in more colors, and can be mixed into even more colors... It's a fair shortcut at, but it's still a shortcut, and judges know that... EVERYTHING gets judged on a diorama, including the grass...

However, It's really not necessary to use a generator to get static grass to stand up (although it would be ideal)... You can get quite a bit of it of it to stand tall with a soda straw and lung-power...  Just sift it on over the glue and blow...

 

 

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