Odds and Ends Forum

Hey guys,

Since there hasn'r been a lot of suggestions offered here in the last few days I'm locking this thread. I invite anyone who wishes to comment on the issue of "Odds & Ends" and the FSM Forum to contact me directly either by "Conversation," e-mail: askinner@finescale.com, or phone: 262-796-8776 x299.

Thanks.

Aaron

padakr

But some people don't have an ISP.  They use free Wi-Fi hotspots at Starbucks or such.

If they really want to put a name to an account for purposes of accountability (sorry, I couldn't resist), then make people use a credit card to register, even if it is a very small annual fee, say $1, it would do a lot to prevent trolls and sock-puppets.  I don't imagine many people would resort to credit card fraud or identity theft just to tweak somebody else's nose on these forums.

Paul

Well, nothing's fool-proof..  Dunno about charging for membership either.. I think that'd be overkill.. FSM wants an "All-Ages" forum, so a 13-year old doesn't need parental involvement to whip out a credit card, and can join if'n he wants..

'Course, I read what 13 year-olds write in the gaming forums and it's pretty rough in some of 'em, lol.. Of course, that's after I translate the "game-speak" and get past the spelling and grammar enough to actually understand it...  Turned out it was English...

But some people don't have an ISP.  They use free Wi-Fi hotspots at Starbucks or such.

If they really want to put a name to an account for purposes of accountability (sorry, I couldn't resist), then make people use a credit card to register, even if it is a very small annual fee, say $1, it would do a lot to prevent trolls and sock-puppets.  I don't imagine many people would resort to credit card fraud or identity theft just to tweak somebody else's nose on these forums.

Paul

You'd only need your ISP to open an account, not so you could use the forums every day..  Once membership is vetted by the admin, you'd needn't even use your own computer to participate...   You'd still need to sign in with your username and password, but not your home ISP..

BTW, if you worked for ME and I caught you in here during work hours, you'd soon be able to spend a lot more time building models...  

(Just joking, folks... Ain't nobody would work for me with what I pay...) The people I hire are usually no-shows after the first payday anyway, and since they get paid Friday, come Saturday they're usually in jail... This is no ca-ca... I check the Story County Jail Inmate Roster every Monday moring for the guys that worked for me on Friday.. Ain't missed one yet, and I also have an extensive mug-shot collection of former employees...

Maybe I should switch payday to Monday? Least then I'd get four days out of 'em... In a row, that is..

DoogsATX

NO.

Gmail is my personal e-mail account. Has been since it launched. There is no way I'd sign up for a personal interest forum with a work account, and you'd have to put a gun to my head to get me to actually activate my Time Warner e-mail. 

I would have to agree.  I've got a Hotmail account that I've had through three different jobs and even more ISPs.  I wouldn't start using my work account for personal stuff, lest I incur the wrath of my email administrator.

I don't fault your logic Hans.  I'm just saying that it may do more to decrease readership. 

Even blocking IPs would not work. I've got a home with 4 laptops, each one with a different IP. I can access the net through my phone or at a work computer.

Hans von Hammer

 

GreenThumb:

 

 

Shellback:

 

 I didnt know if that was posible as i think usernames are linked with a ISP and only one can be assigned to that ISP .

 

 

All you need is a new email address, user name and password. It doesn't block ISP addresses.

 

 

All FSM has to do is not accept any members with net-based email accounts.. Hotmail, google, yahoo, etc, couldn't be used.. Members would have to use their ISP email account.  In the forums I admin in, that's worked quite well... Of course, there are several trolls who've been quite adept at masking and spoofing IPs, but the moderators have standing orders to shoot them on sight..

Of course, SOME net-based accounts are needed, like for deployed servicemembers, ut they can use their DoD email addresses, for instance.. Army personel can use their AKO accounts..

NO.

Gmail is my personal e-mail account. Has been since it launched. There is no way I'd sign up for a personal interest forum with a work account, and you'd have to put a gun to my head to get me to actually activate my Time Warner e-mail. 

GreenThumb

Shellback:

 

 I didnt know if that was posible as i think usernames are linked with a ISP and only one can be assigned to that ISP .

 

All you need is a new email address, user name and password. It doesn't block ISP addresses.

All FSM has to do is not accept any members with net-based email accounts.. Hotmail, google, yahoo, etc, couldn't be used.. Members would have to use their ISP email account.  In the forums I admin in, that's worked quite well... Of course, there are several trolls who've been quite adept at masking and spoofing IPs, but the moderators have standing orders to shoot them on sight..

Of course, SOME net-based accounts are needed, like for deployed servicemembers, ut they can use their DoD email addresses, for instance.. Army personel can use their AKO accounts..

Jeez I dunno, I go away for a few months and all hell breaks loose.  WTF happened ?

Thanks Mike .

Shellback

 

 I didnt know if that was posible as i think usernames are linked with a ISP and only one can be assigned to that ISP .

All you need is a new email address, user name and password. It doesn't block ISP addresses.

Wow. Miss a few days miss a lot.

Rob Gronovius

Woody:

Why not limit or closed membership to a new Ods & ends forum, like the Test Forum section I used to be a member of? You act up you are removed from that section for a year.

 

 

I'm not sure that would work. Some of the regular members who concentrated their posting efforts in the O&E forum maintained alternate aliases. Even a member just a couple posts before you is on one of several subsequent usernames. If they get banned or suspended, they just re-enter the fray with another username and never miss a beat.

Rob , with all respect to you , I dont know who you are reffering to but my post is a couple above Woody and just to make it clear to other readers i sure as heck dont have another username . I didnt know if that was posible as i think usernames are linked with a ISP and only one can be assigned to that ISP .Unless of course a user has another ISP at a different location , like at work , available to them , which i do not . So know the list is narrowed down somewhat isnt it .

Rob not trying to start a beef with you .

Mike messed up my quote of your earlier post above so i redid it there .

Heres my reply again .........

"Mike , i've been here for a while also albeit off and on . I respect your opinion and do not disagree with statements that you have made . Its hard to pinpoint the actual people i was referring to without starting another war . If O&E could be moderated over the weekends then i think that would help . But without a moderator there i see O&E just going off the deep end again ."

Rob Gronovius

 

Woody:

 

Why not limit or closed membership to a new Ods & ends forum, like the Test Forum section I used to be a member of? You act up you are removed from that section for a year.

 

 

 

I'm not sure that would work. Some of the regular members who concentrated their posting efforts in the O&E forum maintained alternate aliases. Even a member just a couple posts before you is on one of several subsequent usernames. If they get banned or suspended, they just re-enter the fray with another username and never miss a beat.

Then the forum needs to use software to block the ISP address of the members it suspends.

Woody

Why not limit or closed membership to a new Ods & ends forum, like the Test Forum section I used to be a member of? You act up you are removed from that section for a year.

 

I'm not sure that would work. Some of the regular members who concentrated their posting efforts in the O&E forum maintained alternate aliases. Even a member just a couple posts before you is on one of several subsequent usernames. If they get banned or suspended, they just re-enter the fray with another username and never miss a beat.

GreenThumb

Shellback:

I started a thread in O&E on Sunday and asked that we all try to drop the back and forth complaints that were only escalating and not solving a thing . What did i get ? One serious reply first and then a childish remark lastly . Two post !  Non of you really cared as far as i'm concerned ! Yes i got fed up with the remarks just like the rest of you and said my part . We had a chance to be adult about the entire mess and we just simply went on our bullheaded ways and destroyed the validity of having a O&E forum . We are to blame ! Non of us can hold our nose in the air and claim any type of superiority over any others that participated ...and i include MYSELF .

I'm glad O&E is gone .It had some fun threads that i indulged in gladly along with threads of interest about other members , but in the end  all that the O&E forum was providing  was a place for relentless arguments and it was getting sickening ! I just hope that the arguing doesn't spread to the model forums .

Thank me , goodbye !

Mike , i've been here for a while also albeit off and on . I respect your opinion and do not disagree with statements  that you have made . Its hard to pinpoint the actual people i was referring to without starting another war . If O&E could be moderated over the weekends then i think that would help . But without a moderator there i see O&E just going off the deep end again .

 

 

We? Even though we are a collective bunch on here we are all responsible for our own actions. Because some children ruined a good forum where us members who have made friendships on here and liked to discuss our other interests is no reason to blame all of us. Without an off topic forum we can no longer talk about our pets, our gardening, or our music, (there are several musicians here).

 

Mike , i've been here for a while also albeit off and on . I respect your opinion and do not disagree with statements that you have made . Its hard to pinpoint the actual people i was referring to without starting another war . If O&E could be moderated over the weekends then i think that would help . But without a moderator there i see O&E just going off the deep end again .

Why not limit or closed membership to a new Ods & ends forum, like the Test Forum section I used to be a member of? You act up you are removed from that section for a year.

I enjoyed that forum. I'd like to see it reopened. We can't allow it to be that easy for the trolls to close sections of our forums down 

tigerman

 

the doog:

 

I think the O&E should be restored. Though it can, and has been, a volatile place, there is indeed a need for an outlet for humor, for socializing, for updating everyone on personal events and issue, and without the O&E, that impulse and need is just going to inevitably gravitate to other forums and populate those forums, where many modelers have no interest at all in reading them. And we run the risk of once again confronting the same issue of excessive frivolity and gratuitous post-padding.

 

 

Absolutely agree. There were some serious threads in the O & E. I can't imagine diluting the quality of the main threads with non-modeling substance. We do need some outlet for these things.

I third that notion. Many of us spent more time in the O&E than any other forum and many of us have been here a long time.

Shellback

I started a thread in O&E on Sunday and asked that we all try to drop the back and forth complaints that were only escalating and not solving a thing . What did i get ? One serious reply first and then a childish remark lastly . Two post !  Non of you really cared as far as i'm concerned ! Yes i got fed up with the remarks just like the rest of you and said my part . We had a chance to be adult about the entire mess and we just simply went on our bullheaded ways and destroyed the validity of having a O&E forum . We are to blame ! Non of us can hold our nose in the air and claim any type of superiority over any others that participated ...and i include MYSELF .

I'm glad O&E is gone .It had some fun threads that i indulged in gladly along with threads of interest about other members , but in the end  all that the O&E forum was providing  was a place for relentless arguments and it was getting sickening ! I just hope that the arguing doesn't spread to the model forums .

Thank me , goodbye !

 

We? Even though we are a collective bunch on here we are all responsible for our own actions. Because some children ruined a good forum where us members who have made friendships on here and liked to discuss our other interests is no reason to blame all of us. Without an off topic forum we can no longer talk about our pets, our gardening, or our music, (there are several musicians here).

I think that is ridiculous. What the forum needs is moderators who can suspend childish threads and keep the peace. This is the only forum I have ever been to that does not have moderators who are regular posters and I think that is sad.

Gil . very well said . I'll remember your words .

To be honest I’m not sure what it used to be but the recent behavior is pretty consistent with what I have observed since I subscribed to FSM and actually participated in a few forum discussions. I’m not trying to be sarcastic, just saying I am fairly new and was surprised at how people interacted on many issues in the short time I observed. I am one of the old guys that was away from the hobby for 30 yrs and was very excited to find a “virtual community” of other model builders where I could learn and hopefully contribute something useful once in awhile. To me this hobby is all about fun and relaxation. Mind you I am not saying that I have never stomped away from the work bench in frustration and exasperation at my latest blunder, but by and large it is often a refuge from the more serious pressures and troubles in my world. That is why I found it so surprising that many seemed to turn this hobby into one more thing to fight about. These conflicts often seemed to arise from the fact that someone attained a “label” for some real or perceived comment on the Odds and Ends forum. Once that label was applied there was no relenting in the type of baiting and “piling on” that could be expected in most future conversations no matter which forum it occurred in. Basically I decided this is not what the hobby was about for me so I left. I did not leave angry of frustrated, I just decided that it seemed most folks (or at least the “core” group) of these forums wanted it to be something very different than what I was looking for. Like many things in life what could have been a negative had a positive side because the time spent away from the forums was often spent at the bench re-learning lost skills. I have also found that the “cyber world” often magnifies personality traits. The bullies get mouthier, the very sensitive get a bigger chip on their shoulder and the generous give even more of themselves. And like so many have observed it is guaranteed that we will often be misunderstood in our communication efforts. In closing I would like to reiterate the fact that I understand the forums are not about what I want, but we should also think about whether something is worth fighting about. And I am not saying we should all agree and feel “warm and fuzzy”.  We should all speak our minds and have convictions worth standing by. But when it degenerates into general bickering and meanness you can count me out. When I look at the world we live in there seems to be enough conflict and hardship to go around without me adding to it with my hobby participation. If this all sounds a bit too philosophical it may be partially due to the loss of a family friend recently. He was weeks away from retirement and looking forward to spending time on his hobbies and with his wife and family. From the time the doctors said “there is something wrong here” to the time he died was 5 weeks! It really has made me stop and reassess some priorities and think twice about what I am willing to get all worked up about. To all the mentors who hang out here thanks for the advice you give I still read it and learn from it. I hope someday to be at a skill level where I can contribute some pics and advice myself. To all those who state their opinions and beliefs firmly but respectfully kudos to you. To those who truly enjoy conflict, I understand we need all different types in the world but it does not hurt to stand back and consider the impact we may be having on others once in awhile. It could be that post counts and plastic model kits aren’t quite as important as we often make them out to be. Lastly to the folks who run the forums thanks for working tirelessly at a largely thankless job and thanks for having courage to do what you believe is right even when it is not an easy decision.

jeaton01

I suppose I may have a different take on all this, and I have to admit to have missed the whole thing.  I tend to mostly make or respond to posts that are about models or aircraft details.  I get a lot of humor and jokes in my e-mail and I don't read much of it. I admit some people see me as boring or colorless, but I just don't live there.  In truth it is the nature of humor to be at someone or somethings expense, and there is a big downside in that.

When something comes up like this and the management steps in people seem to think it's Big Brother stepping on their necks.  Well, maybe, but I think it is more likely, or more appropriately, that FSM has a vision about what this forum should be about.  When we veer too far from that vision then they take steps to heard the membership back on course for the long term health of the forum.  If we don't take gentle hints then they have to be more obvious.  Does anyone think that is a lot of fun for them, or Aaron in particular?  If there is any reason to try to be more gentle, that may be it.

Let's continue this as a fun and interesting place, one post at a time.  Let's have discussion and lively controversy, with a big dose of respect.

To quote a friend of mine's dad (who is the most humorless person I know, yet hilarious in a very dry sort of way), "I don't like jokes".

I know I, for one, have never regarded FSM or Aaron or anyone here or managing this forum as Big Brother. Timer Warner and AT&T, yes. FSM, no. I've been on the other side and I understand their actions. I would have maybe taken a different path, but I don't think there's any question that something had to be done after this weekend.

And amen to respect and to taking things one post at a time!

Shellback

Thank me , goodbye !

 

OK. Thank you.

Very well said indeed, John.

Most of us being male, we don't tend to take subtle suggestions. We need neon or someone to beat it into us!

Very well said John.

Too many skilled & knowledgeable people have left based on the behavior/action of a few.  Hopefully we can  get back to what this forum used to be.

I suppose I may have a different take on all this, and I have to admit to have missed the whole thing.  I tend to mostly make or respond to posts that are about models or aircraft details.  I get a lot of humor and jokes in my e-mail and I don't read much of it. I admit some people see me as boring or colorless, but I just don't live there.  In truth it is the nature of humor to be at someone or somethings expense, and there is a big downside in that.

When something comes up like this and the management steps in people seem to think it's Big Brother stepping on their necks.  Well, maybe, but I think it is more likely, or more appropriately, that FSM has a vision about what this forum should be about.  When we veer too far from that vision then they take steps to heard the membership back on course for the long term health of the forum.  If we don't take gentle hints then they have to be more obvious.  Does anyone think that is a lot of fun for them, or Aaron in particular?  If there is any reason to try to be more gentle, that may be it.

Let's continue this as a fun and interesting place, one post at a time.  Let's have discussion and lively controversy, with a big dose of respect.