paint question - it's probably going to get howls of laughter or derision

sure, do it however you think is best

there are a couple of reasons to want "actual colors",,,,,none of which may apply to your own specific style of modeling,,,,,,or "his",,,,,or "hers",,,,,,,,or "especially his", lol

the only reason I try to drill down into "exact colors" is because my collection is all about the "colors and their use" and the various squadron markings involved in the "high color era" of the USN

I also want things like Russian trucks to have a different green than my US trucks, or my British trucks,,,,,,everyone knows they didn't have the same green

in the process of getting enough different colors for all my needs,,,,,,,it was just easier to hunt down the chip books and go from there

if you are going to weather and wash, pre shade and post shade, dust and dirty, rust and muddy,,,,,any Green you really like is going to work as your beginning canvas

Short version,,,,,,for a lot of you,,,,,,the paint color is your starting point,,,,,,,for a very few of us, that color scheme is our final finish

both are just as right,,,,,,,,and shouldn't be laughed at,,,,,this hobby is already small enough

just one "accu-nasty's" opinion

Rex

That's sorta like asking "Why do any research at all, and not build it OOB (out of the box), or why worry about raised panel lines vs. scribed panel lines, or why SCALE model at all?

I'm not that persnickity about matching the exact color, nor am I the guy that counts all the rivets molded into the plastic.  I don't build competition models or much scratch building, but there are guys here that LOVE that stuff.  It's all part of the modeling experience, and what we like to do to suit us.

As long as it's fun for YOU - go for it!

Reid

I broadly agree with the two previous replies.

For me, it's about doing the best I can, eg, if there is something obviously wrong on a kit, I will try & do something about it

The same with colo(u)rs,  I try & start with something close to the original, weather that be Tamiya XF62 for late war OD, or Vallejo US OD, because Russian green would be wrong, for a PARTICULAR vehicle.

I even buy colour box sets, eg, Lifecolour USN or Luftwaffe, because I haven't got them to start with... but they are only the start....  

I've painted enough real tanks and seen so many tanks that sit in the sun and change color from fading (sides look painted a different color than the tops) that I don't worry about matching colors. Now I will match a green to a green, brown to a brown, etc. but with the amount of variations due to weather, I don't worry about exact shades.

Besides, I've watched soldiers mix whatever colors they could to make the paint stretch out so they could finish their tank. It's also easier to dispose of empty paint cans than ones with a little bit of paint left inside. Got a few inches of brown left in a 5 gallon can? Pour it into an opened can of green to empty it and mix it in.

I just like buying paint so I try to get the match...otherwise I get it close and hope for the best.

It's a buncha old farts bein' anal, is what it is.

It's a hobby where many participants strive for accuracy, paint color is just one of the details some like to get as correct as possible. What's anal to one guy isn't a big deal to another. For example, if I build a jet, I slap it together right out of the box and am happy. A jet guy may be horrified that I didn't fix easy items to make the kit more accurate.

Conversely, I'm a modern armor person. There are plenty of easy fixes I can make that the jet guy doesn't know or care about.

To each his own.

I know a lot of what I build gets very light weathering so I do admit to probably spending too much time matching. Sometimes I catch myself doing it and force myself to move on before "the right colour" ends up bogging down a build.

I wish I could remember which magazine it was, have to look for it some time... published an anecdote from a British maintenance man of some sort. He and his crew field-mixed a green shade, gave up after 3 tries, declared it close enough & slapped it on whatever machine they were working on.

to the Original Poster

keep in mind that everyone with an online account can name, with a minimum of effort,,,,,over 300 bottles of paint that another modeler that "does not believe in a paint standard" will flat out Refuse To Use on his Tank, Jet, or Prop plane

when someone asks "what color is the ___________?", they already have hundreds of paints in mind that they won't use for it

Rex

The way I look at it is ya gotta buy some color of paint for the model so what not spend a few minutes getting as close as you can to its actually color. Olive drab is not more/less expensive than Olive or green-green or whatever!

I usually stick roughly to whatever the instructions call out. the instructions may call out "flat aluminium" for the whole engine but without a bit of varience it would look boring, "accurate" but boring.Some say green is green but i wouldnt paint a tank kawasaki lime green but any shade close to real is good enough, especially when you... here goes....pin wash, panel line wash, sludge wash filter drybrush flat coat gloss coat weather with pastels/oils/pigments/felttip/pencil/coffee/chocolate/cathair. if the final colour is anywhere near "real" after all that ill eat my aibrush.

I still bought special; colourmatch paint for the ferarri tho'  and then touched it up here and there with tamiya X7..go figure.

I use the internet and books as my research for different colouring to parts not shown in the instructions. However the true main colour could vary for so many reasons as mentioned above, so its not heaps important to me, more of a guide. Look at the fading in jungle greens for example, no two are the same.

I think of actors on live stage with face make up or better yet masks. It is used to show face expression to people far away. It stands out to the naked eye, like weathering a model from its original colour, has the same effect yet its not correct.

Another reason I usually do not worry too much about an exact color match is that unless you are modeling a contemporary vehicle, paints used to chalk and fade very rapidly if kept outside in sunlight.  I usually weather and fade models of older vehicles.  Starting about the Vietnam war the military started using epoxy and urethane paints, much more resistant to fading.  But older dopes, lacquers and enamels changed color rapidly.

Don, I do wish more people would separate the "everyone knows" folk lore the way you just did

on the one hand, you have 1925 style paint technology, being field applied,,,,or applied to machinery by a country who's factories are burning up faster than they can produce weapons

and on the other hand, there are modern paint companies providing paints to factories that can produce jets and rockets that are engineered to go Mach 2, or 3 in some test cases,,,,,in a country that has Car factories color matching better than most people believe an Aircraft factory is capable of

not to mention that the modelers expect to be able to be told just what bottle of paint to get (those should match perfectly from batch to batch) to paint a model in colors that so many believe must have 16,000 variations if 16,000 were produced

if DuPont could not supply paint to Douglas in 1965, but, Ford could get Coral Red consistantly,,,,,,,how is Testors able to mix Flat Light Gull Gray consistantly from batch to batch?

believe me,,,,,in 1956, it already was being done just fine,,,,,1942?, maybe not as well

Rex

I am currently working on the Constitution and am ad-libbing with some colours. It is certainly not historically correct but it does look good and not at all out of place.

In fact, the only people who would know that the colours are not spot on would be Constitution/tall ship enthusiasts on forums like this.

Now, my 'thing' is detail. Generally not historically correct detail, but fine detail that people look at and wonder how it was done.

I wouldn't paint a tall ship pink or Ferrari red for example, but I do like my models to look like minitature versions of the real thing.

I will be starting the 'Dora' soon and it will be painted a sandy yellow/brown which is nowhere near what it probably looked like originally, but it's my model and as long as I enjoy it, so what. All the pipework will be a few shades of grey and maybe some flat silver in places...who knows, but I will work it out as I go.

All in all, it's what suits you and your enjoyment of this weird hobby of ours. Some people don't even paint theirs at all. Go figure.

slinky malinky

Hi all,

This might seem like a really dumb question from a relatively inexperienced modeller.... but why is there so much focus and concern on matching specific paint colours EXACTLY. 

I dunno who started it, but you can probably bet it was the guy that did it first at a contest, and won big... Then a whole buncha folks who saw it jumped on the bandwagon to emulate it, resulting in many, many years of discussions and downright heated arguements, follwed up by model paint-makers coming up with the "exact matches" of FS Colors, RLM Colors, etc. (However, not even ONE of them scaled down their colors)...

Then after painting, the modellers (like most of us do these days) wash, filter, weather and otherwise alter the colours considerably.

Oh, there are a few guys that like the "factory fresh" look, or what I call "Airshow Finishes"... Warbird Restorers seldom match the original colors, but they DO try to get it close...  Although, I gotta admit, the advent of computer color-matching has come a long way, provided that one can get at the original color-chips... (An FS Color chip fan-book is a pretty useful tool in modern military paint-matching...)  At any rate, it's all about whether one approaches final finishing from a technical, tactical, or artistic point of view...

So why the big deal about the original shade?

I'm firmly entrenched in the camp of "TLAR" (That Looks About Right) Finishing...  All the fretting and fussing about "accurate" colors is lotta horse-apples as far as I'm concerned... Were the "Color-n azis" right, they'd be wanting exact SCALE colors, not matches of 1/1 scale colors.. But then you'd have a total mess with each scale needing it's corresponding color-match ...

  If one of these builders of the "accurately-painted" models places his latest pride & joy at the scale distance from the eye to make the model appear to be the same size as the prototype, sitting in the background, he'd likely be shocked at the way the paint on his "Dead-on" colors appear... They'll either be far too light, or far too dark, or perhaps even totally "wrong"...

Why? Simpe.. It's because you have an "atmospheric haze" between the eye and the prototype, and the colors will change correspondingly.. The farther away from your eye the original color, the greater the effect of the haze..  Now, this is an over-simplified explaination, and I'll let the "Art Students" answer any more technical questions... I just know that the 1/1 P-51D I see parked on the ramp, and the 1/48th version of the same don't match up very often... Unless the modeler scales the colors, he ain't quite got it yet...

Am I missing something or am I ok to do what I am now which is to get a close approximation of original colour (when I don't have the exact match) and treat is as a base coat?

You're fine doing the way you do it...  Personally, I paint my stuff according to "TLAR", then add the weathering effects... Pretty much starts the way it comes from the "factory" (to include the standard decals), then add the fading, color-shifting, chips, stains and dirt... I also like to add things squadron codes and artwork in brighter colors than the national insignias and such, since these things are usually "newer" paint... That stuff doesn't get put on at the factory paint-shop, ya know... It comes outta buckets and is applied by Privates and T-Corporals outdoors in blazing tropical sunlight, or in miserable, damp, cold conditions... Another thing... Judges don't walk around the tables with a color-chip book...  BUT... There's always this ONE guy....

But I seldom model a "real" subject... I prefer to add bogus S/Ns, spurious squadron codes, pilot/crew names and artwork...  Drives some of the R/Cs nuts because they can't criticize it by pointing at the prototype in a book...

TLAR, baby...

I actually tried that 1/1 scale versus 1/24 "scale effect" color thing once

I went outside when I still had my Grabber Blue Mercury Cougar,,,,,I mixed some Grabber Blue paint to the ratio a book said (the ratio varied per each scale),,,,I painted the model half in the mix, and half in the 1/1 color

I stood 1 foot from the model,,,,,,,then 24 foot from the car,,,,,,,and I most assuredly did not see any "haze" between me and the car,,,,,,so, I looked at the model from 2 feet away,and looked at the car from 48 feet (real, 12 inch, stepped off heel-to-toe feet)

I concluded that the "scale effect paint" idea might work fine for very large items,,,,like ships,,,,,but, for items that I could stand next to and snap a picture,,,,,well, let's just say that my jacket in my avatar looks the exact same color as the real jacket when I put my sleeve up against the photo that I uploaded

there is your test, folks,,,,,wear something distinctive, stand next to a modeling subject,,snap a picture,,,,,I really don't think any of us believe that there is a "blocking haze" between us and an aircraft at an airshow

Rex

added,,,,,,,,don't think I don't agree with the TLAR method,,,,,,I just believe that if someone asks, and someone else knows,,,,,,that the person that wants to know should be given the info of what TLAR colors to start with,,,,,,TLAR means nothing to a person that doesn't even know what "looks about right" in the first place,,,,,,,,,at 3 to 4 dollars a bottle, most modelers do NOT want to "hunt around until they find a Green they like for their jet",,,,and it is just not fair to withhold the info that they want 34079 and 34102 for those greens,,,,,,any other two greens do NOT look TLAR,,,,,,and that is why they are asking in the first place

Substite " blocking haze" for "aerial extinction". Its a real effect and is a term landscape photographers know all about. The catch is it only becomes apparent over long didtances. Google is your friend :-)

long distances,,,,,not close up,,,,,,,as I said

cars, tanks, aircraft, horse, and figures are all too close

Place your model at such a height and distance from your eyes that it appears to be the same size as the 1/1 scale prototype...   That's how you'd have to check it... 

Or go with "TLAR"...   Much less aggrivation (and footwork, especially if you're building a 1/48th scale Fw190 or the like.  I don't have any Warbirds out at the local airpatch)... Me? I just shake and turn the paint-bottle over and check the color until I get a "That Looks About Right" feelin'... 

Also, I don't leave an aircraft or AFV in "Factory" finishes.. I fade them, darken them, highlight and shade them... Sometimes I spray a totally different color over the finished model to fade or darken it (like heavily-thinned tan over an OD USAAF aircraft that's "based in the South Pacific".. 

All in all, I've never seen a judge with a book of color-chips going from model to model, checking for FS or RLM color-matches...  *(Wouldn't put it past some though...)

If it's important to you, by all means, go for it...  I just don't feel it's that critical... If it's too dark, lighten it, if it's too light, darken it..

The Mk I Eyeball is still the best measuring device, IMHO...

Eureka!! The TLAR system using the Mk1 Eyeball is the system for me. The science behind it can't be denied and it suits my building style perfectly!

In all seriousness, thanks for all the replies. It looks like there is no 'right' answer which makes me feel a whole lot better.

I helped paint the equipment going to the first Gulf War for 1st Bn 1st Marines. We bought the paint from sears and applied it with wagner power painters. We used house paint and if you see the pictures of our vehicles after the first sand storm they were CARC (chemical Agent Resistant Coating) woodland Camo once again on the side facing the sandstorm. It was tan colored latex house paint.  We painted the canvas as well. Rifles and other gear were all rattle canned with whatever tan colored paint could be bought over the counter. Everything was green before that war and desert warfare was not an option. There was no paint for it in our system.

cool i'm off to homebase for some authentic sand camo, might just get some dulux grey for my ef-2000 too!!

I hope to get to all of my pictures in the next couple of months, they are in storage. I have taken quite a few during my 23 years as a Marine.