GETTING THE RIGHT COLOR

Who says the box art is correct?  Or the colour profile?  I recall a profile of "Assi" Hahn's Bf-109E with a red cowl instead of yellow.  One photographer used film or developing method that turned the photograph red instead of yellow.

I try to be close.  My suggestion would be to do your research, do your best, and be willing to grow.  Judgement of "that looks right" will come with experience.  When you have the experience of some of our more seasoned members, you can get more meticulous.  In the meantime, I wouldn't get too wrapped around the axle.

I don't get hung up on matching a "correct" shade as for many times is mostly impossible. Too many variables to consider such as the method of application, weathering, lighting conditions, film quality and don't even start with "colorized" pictures that most of the time are way off. Color differences between batches and even within the same manufacturer is common.

As an example, German Panzer Grey appears in some pictures from an almost black to bluish or even lighter grey.

Best you can do is try to gather as much info as you can and approximate the shade in question. Weathering and filters will alter the tone anyway.

Oh;

I thought " Haze Grey " was a condition, not a color ! LOL . LOL . I do agree with both of you fellows. I tried once to match the box art colors on REVELL'S old H.M.S. Cambelltown Model  .What  a Disaster that was .Would you believe a ship with streaks of four different shades of grey ? Oh, and some blue-black too !            T.B.

The best of those boxtop paintings illustrate some of the points I made on that old thread. The Hasegawa aircraft paintings are among my favorite. One of those Japanese artists has an amazing skill at showing airplanes at high altitude. I don't know just how he does it, but somehow he reproduces the character of sunlight in high, thin air. Part of the secret undoubtedly has to do with the colors of his backgrounds. Those planes seem to be flying off the boxes.

How much of that is applicable to model painting I don't know. If I were building an F-15 that would be sitting on its landing gear in our curio cabinet, I wouldn't use the box art colors as a guide. If, on the other hand, I were going to pose that model airborne in a lighted, box-type diorama, I might be tempted to try it.

Light has a huge effect on the eye's perception of colors. I question whether that effect can really be quantified.

A long time ago I read a short book by the great aviation artist Keith Ferris. (He did lots of book covers and murals, including the enormous B-17 in the National Air and Space Museum.) Mr. Ferris mixed all his colors from acrylic tubes in five colors: black, white, red, yellow, and blue. He wanted his publisher to be able to match his colors with basic printers' ink.

I don't think I could match haze grey or dark gull grey with five jars of paint. But I respect and envy anybody who can.

I am going to be accused of hijacking a thread,,,,,,,,,but here goes.

The one single problem with trying to adapt the Artist's scale effect onto a model is that modelers ignore all but their favorite part of the scale effect concept.  Scale effect in art means that a Battleship seen very far away is just a slash of gray paint on the painted water. If you consider that this Battleship is 1/4 inch long on the actual painting,,then a 1/4 inch slash of paint on land can be a tank, and a 1/4 slash of paint in the air is a Phantom jet.  Scale effect also makes all very distant objects look like an indistinct gray color.  Scale effect also "fuzzes" out the shapes.

So, modelers come along and tell us that there is this "chunk of haze" in between us and the object we are modeling,,,,,,,,which is true for a very distant object.  Not exactly true for a photo of a car in the driveway or an aircraft on the tarmac.  They take a photo and then "tone down" the colors from what you see in that photo,,,,,,,when in realty, if that "chunk of haze" is in our photo, then we wouldn't add to it when doing a model that is *larger than the photo* (working with 8 by 10 as the standard color photo size)

In realty, all that panel line enhancement is to act as a "zoom in" quality when we view a model, because the actual panels fade out of sight as the aircraft gets farther away.

So, a model of a White Phantom that I had Anne take of me as a gate guard,,,,to be "acceptable" as a scale model, "Must" A-have the White tonned down into a Light Gray, *and* B- have the panel lines enhanced to show up more on the model than they do in the photo (or in real life until you get really close up)  Never mind that "scale effect" eliminates the differences between an F-4C nose and an F-4E nose as part of the visual effect of "lost detail because of the haze"

to be true to "scale effect",,,,,,all models should be sanded to eliminate distinct part differences between any two, and should all be the same "fuzzy gray" that a distant aircraft seems to be before you use binoculars to see if you are looking at a White airliner or a green camo'd tactical jet. And even the panel lines that we can see where the rudder hinge gap is, should be grayed out.  Being able to tell a 3" gun from a 5" inch gun on a scale effect painted Destroyer model shouldn't be possible.

All models would be just "as molded gray" if they were painted at the distance from the eye that artists use for scale effect,,,tanks, planes, ships, everything.

Besides,,,,,,,,the advice of "just paint what you see" doesn't help a new modeler or a modeler with less than about 2 years experience one tiny bit.  They haven't been modeling long enough to know what color comes out of which paint jar yet.  So "any gray you want" doesn't work as advice for them,,,,,,they need to know who bottles the gray for their UK prop plane, who models the gray for US ships before Pearl Harbor, and who bottles the gray for a USN Phantom in 1968.  They very obviously were different colors,,,,,,,and many new modelers don't yet know "what looks right",,,,especially if they are still trying to match box art, and don't know of the thousands of errors that have been made in box art over the years. (Yellow Zeroes and Purple Rufes, anyone?)

Well, I think there is  a reason the box art of a kit does not match the colour callouts on the instructions.   Whether the artwork was done inhouse, or a freelance commission, I'm certain the illustrator used artists paints, and not models paints, on his canvas surface.  

I'm sure he was provided with colour chips, and other reference materials, but in the end, he mixed his own paints to what he saw with his eye.  Certainly, they would add in their own embellishment of what they thought looked good, and also considered what would help sell the product.  

Then there is also variation in the printing process.  

regards,

Jack

But, as I said,,,,,,,,you choose from colors that were actually applied, and then you go for any "scale effect" or any "weathering"

But, don't do that,,,,,

We had a good discussion of this subject a few years ago. Here's the thread:  cs.finescale.com/.../99738.aspx

My opinions on the subject haven't changed. I have the deepest respect for the folks who've done such high-powered research on authentic colors. Their work provides an essential basis for serious scale modeling. But just what is the "right" color for a model is affected by all sorts of factors - including size, the "scale effect," lighting, and various other considerations. I long ago gave up on any simple system of determining "the" right colors. To my notion, scale modeling involves finding out as much as possible about the prototype, and figuring out, according to your definitions and judgment, how best to interpret the evidence in order to produce an authentic representation of that prototype.

I have all the colors I will ever need matched to paint chips, and purchased in the various model paint lines.. I have the specs, and use those for the bodies of the aircraft. The only time I vary is when the paint that is called for doesn't match any decals using that same color. In those cases, I match the paint to the decals and save the left over paint.

Be aware that 183 people online will tell everyone that it is not possible to do, though. I wasn't told it wasn't possible until after I was 3/4 of the way through an FS 595 booklet's set of matches. So, I just went ahead and did it.

So, for me, it is a case of looking at the instructions, comparing to the standards, determining if I am looking at one of the exceptions or not, and then picking the bottles from stock. A bit of lightening or darkening of a couple colors to match decals if necessary, and spray away.

The "color choices game" is a lot easier if you narrow things down as you go, using logic. For instance, to get that gray for UK WWII aircraft, we don't start with US Lt Gull Gray or US Aircraft Gray. Start with the colors actually used by that air service.  You can go here  www.simmerspaintshop.com/page-RGB-colors-UK.html  Then you can search for a color on the other sites using the actual name or designation of the color you are looking for.  (some other sites just give a list of colors, you have to know what "your list" is supposed to include in advance)

And even though people will tell you that they "don't use a standard",,,,,,if they use a list of colors for the air service they are building,,,,,,,,,that IS using a standard.

Rex