I think I'll stick with good ol' black and white...

tempestjohnny

So what this means is Aurora could have been right with the yellow 109 and red Zero 

 

Lol Aurora...

So what this means is Aurora could have been right with the yellow 109 and red Zero 

The same is true of Black and White film. Some favor reds, and others blues. And none of this takes into account if the photographer used any filters on the lens.

That's interesting.  I've never considered different films favoring certain colors.  I'll have to keep that in mind when using untouched vintage color photos for reference! 

The primary color of the box of film (discounting Kodak Yellow) often showed you which colors were favored by the film.  Ectachrome liked blues, Fuji liked greens, Kodachrome LOVED reds, Agfa liked blues and greens.....

Great topic!

I've spent considerable time over the years researching colors, looking for photos, etc. Particularly for Luftwaffe topics. The vast majority being black and white. Along the way, I learned the colors did vary a bit, depending on where the paint was made, field applications, wear, etc. So, I've been left with the opinion that the best way to enjoy modelling and keep it simple is to just paint what WE think looks nice while making a decent effort to get it right.

Gents,

I'd never judge colors from an old color photo, nor would I go with a color print that was made without careful printing work.  Without serious work by the printers (either a color print from a neg, or in a book) everything would be a best guesstimate.

B&W isn't any better.  Different B&W films rendered tones differently and often combat photos could have been taken with various contrast filters over camera lenses that would cause the tones to vary.

If your computer monitor isn't calibrated and color profiled it will not render accurate colors either.  If you want to see how that works, open an image on your desktop then open the same image on a laptop or tablet.  Most likely, you will see a definite color shift from one to the other.  (Different brands of the devices will show the most obvious shifts.

The best bet is to always go with the federal standards, or the paint manufacturers' own work in making the paint colors accurate.  Apply your preferences to how you handle scale effect, weathering, etc., but go with what is known as your base standard.  Matching colors to photographs will drive you batty if accurate color is your goal.

Accurate color matching in photography is very precise work and requires efforts, that unless necessary, are seldom worth all the effort.

Purt-near color is judged to be good enough for all but those special occasions.

Interesting, thanks!

Nice comparison!  I've always thought the Agfa film had a yellowish hue.  Its pretty evident here.  

Moff

 

 

stikpusher

The German color images used Agfa film and that tended to give a particular look. American images used Kodak films and gave a different look.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry off this is off-topic, but could you summarize the differences in color/tone between Agfa and Kodak? I'm just curious. From the pictures I saw, the Agfa pictures had more of a cold tint as opposed to the warmer colors of the Kodak reels. 

BTW, I totally agree about colorized photos.

 

 

Here is a typical German WWII Color Photo, most likely taken on Agfa film. Of course since this has been transferred to the internat somehow, we cannot say how true to original it is, but it has the more muted colors typical of German/Agfa color photos.

and a typical Kodak image of a similar nature that has been digitally restored by Life. The colors are a bit more vibrant, especially in the skies and flesh tones.

Moff

 

 

stikpusher

The German color images used Agfa film and that tended to give a particular look. American images used Kodak films and gave a different look.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry off this is off-topic, but could you summarize the differences in color/tone between Agfa and Kodak? I'm just curious. From the pictures I saw, the Agfa pictures had more of a cold tint as opposed to the warmer colors of the Kodak reels. 

BTW, I totally agree about colorized photos.

 

I think that is a fair way to describe it.  Kodak always seemed to prefer warmer and more saturated colors than competitors.

 

stikpusher

The German color images used Agfa film and that tended to give a particular look. American images used Kodak films and gave a different look.

 

Sorry off this is off-topic, but could you summarize the differences in color/tone between Agfa and Kodak? I'm just curious. From the pictures I saw, the Agfa pictures had more of a cold tint as opposed to the warmer colors of the Kodak reels. 

BTW, I totally agree about colorized photos.

 

Color negatives, stored with care in a very controlled enviroment will keep their image well. It is the prints that fade with time due to the photo paper type used, exposure to light, humidity, etc.

I have a number of old slides from the sixties.  The changes in color are unbelievable.  I would maintain that slides do not hold their color accuracy as well as color negative films.  And, shots with Kodachrome vs Ektachrome always had considerably different color, showing lack of accuracy even when new.

Ektachrome slides, especially, were oversaturated, aimed at exciting, vibrant colors at the expense of realism.

Slide images seem to hold up well with the years. I processed 3 containers of them onto cd's back about 5 years ago. They were taken in the early 60s and the colors were sharp.

I personally love the "flaws" in old school color film or slide photography. It gives the image a real flavor so to speak, like an oil painters style. The German color images used Agfa film and that tended to give a particular look. American images used Kodak films and gave a different look. When you compare those with digitally colorized B&W photos the differences or usually obvious- especially when looking at skies, fleshtones, or similar portions.

Photography has never been a good record of color even it is not hand colored.  There are professional photography methods to increase color accuracy, but only a tiny fraction of photos were done that way- usually in a studio.  Each film brand/type rendered colors differently.  Photos published in books or magazines are even worse than photographic prints.  Printing presses add another considerable variation in color accuracy of the chain between object of photo and ultimate viewer. 

Things are getting better in today's digital world, but the printers still lack color accuracy. Photos viewed on a calibrated monitor are not too bad.  Good white balance by photographer is still important, however.

Ha!  Great analogy.  

I HATE colorized stuff! Give me original black and white, or original period color photography. Leave that computer generated stuff for folks who can not appreciate the original for what it is worth. Like a woman with plastic surgery, the change does not make it as good as the real deal.

What a great quote!  An honest man who gave you an honest answer! 

In my opinion colorizing makes a photo useless for true analysis of color. It's easier to guess from black and white because when comparing between unadulterated b/w there's a good chance that if the colors are understood in one the other a decent guess is possible. There is a very active dispute about what the battleships were painted at Pearl Harbor. Researchers have gone to the various shipyards in questions, examined the records and still are not certain, but after 74 years are closing in on it. Photos can't settle it. I'll end with a statement I treasure from my late father in law. He was a USAAF seargent in Tunisia in 1942 flying in reverse lend-lease British fighters. So I wanted to do the (build dad's) aircraft, and it was an unusual topic. So what color was his Beaufighter? "He'll if I know, I was too busy climbing in and out of the damn thing".

Thank you friend.  There’s definitely some good stuff out there for sure.  But I was more curious about how others feel about colorized photos, videos, etc...    Personally, I guess I don’t mind looking at colorized photos but I think I'd prefer to see the black and white version and let my imagination fill in the blanks.  I recently saw a black and white picture of Billy the Kid on the news that was actually found in a thrift shop!  I don’t think the picture would have looked as "cool" to me if it had been colorized. 

 

Always been a problem. Very hard to get by. Worth asking on the aircraft forums " what sources do you use?" It's not something that can be discovered by oneself, and no one ever footnotes " colorized" Stikpusher has a source for original LIFE magazine stuff, but you won't find Luftwaffe much there.