Priceing, PE, after market $$$

fermis

 

 

Mrchntmarine

 

IP?? 

 

 

 

Instrument Panel

 

Ahhh, tks again!!  I'll have to start my own dictionary of abbreviations.

Mrchntmarine

 

IP?? 

Instrument Panel

fermis

 

 

That is just what I meant.

In some cases, you'll have to sand down enough material to make up for the thickness of the PE part. As an example...sometimes the instrument panel is meant to sit right on the side consoles. If the PE side consoles are a bit long, the instrument panel will end up a touch high, then won't fit right within the fuselage or will be pressed against the coaming/shroud. This situation is pretty rare though, I've only encountered it a couple times...the other trouble spot being when the face of the IP meets the front edge of the side consoles, the thickness of the PE throws things off. The vast majority have been pretty much a "plug-n-play" situation...designed to fit without any modification, other than cleaning off existing detail.

 

 

IP??

Mrchntmarine

What about just lightly sanding the gauges, etc. to get a smooth surface to glue to?

 

That is just what I meant.

In some cases, you'll have to sand down enough material to make up for the thickness of the PE part. As an example...sometimes the instrument panel is meant to sit right on the side consoles. If the PE side consoles are a bit long, the instrument panel will end up a touch high, then won't fit right within the fuselage or will be pressed against the coaming/shroud. This situation is pretty rare though, I've only encountered it a couple times...the other trouble spot being when the face of the IP meets the front edge of the side consoles, the thickness of the PE throws things off. The vast majority have been pretty much a "plug-n-play" situation...designed to fit without any modification, other than cleaning off existing detail.

It's great stuff!

(you do need to use CA(superglue) though...regular model glue won't do it)

I am a huge fan of the color-zoom variety. I'm pretty good at painting, but can't even come close to what you get with a precolored instrument panel...especially in 1/72.

Here is a comparison of kit detail vs. the zoom PE.

All you have to do is cut off the molded detail, so you have a smooth surface to glue the PE to.

Occassionally, I'll splurge and get full detail sets. This A-10 is getting the works. precolored bits in the pit, you can see the "raw" piece on the turtle deck, where there was just smooth plastic.

With the color-zoom sets (which are usually quite affordable, for the difference they make), you typically get you panels, seat harnesses and a few other little do-dads.

Mrchntmarine

Ummm, what's PE? I saw a thread somewhere, I think here on this forum, with a list of terms, abbreviations and the like. Now I can't find it - trying to get the lingo down. Tks

 

I agree with you rideusmc , but by the very nature of modeling , alway's on the lookout for anything we can utilise in our hobby , most of us are tight , lol

The cost of aftermarket parts, and the cost of our hobby in general is relative. 

I work with many fire-arms enthusiasts.  They spend $500 to $1500 on a firearm as often as I complete a kit (about 4 a year).  Then, they spend $25 for a box for ammunition which they can expell in minute, literally.  

Car guys and racers spend hundreds of dollars for every part they put into their machine.  Then, they buy race fuel at $5 a gallon.  Then, they see how fast it burns in a 1/4 mile.  

Boaters:  BOAT stands for, "Bust Out Another Thousand."  Fuel, dock fees, transport, storage for the winter.  Then, there's going to the boat, which entails food, beer and life preservers.  

I don't even worry about the cost of kits and aftermarket stuff.  A kit will keep me busy for months, and it's relatively cheap (compared to other hobbies.)

Just my 2 cents,

Chris 

modelmaker66

That is why I look to ebay, and only buy a deal. If it is not what I want or in my price, then I don't buy it. It takes a little while to find the deals, but they are there. 

Now and then you do get good buys on eBay but the real bargains are at model vendor tables. The price of shipping ruins the great price for the item so I try to look for the ones offering free shipping or ones accepting offers.

At the modeling show vendor tables, I have purchased $30 to $60 kits for $15 to $25. I remember one show in Tennessee where an old guy was selling 1/72 models for $1 and $2 so I grabbed several kits including the Hasegawa Betty with the Ohka Mk. 11 factory sealed for $2. I also bought a Williams Brothers C-47 for $2. 

Then there are sellers asking close to retail so you have to walk around and check things out.

Tojo72

 

the Baron

Putting on my old curmudgeon hat now, and saying that you can do what we did, back in the day, before there was PE or aftermarket anything, and scratchbuild those details.

And yes, I did build a model in the snow, uphill, both ways!

Seriously, though, you really can scratch a lot of things that folks otherwise represent with PE or resin or whatever.  Some of you may know Bob Ciccone from the shows, he builds 1/700 ships, and while he does use contemporary aftermarket materials, he also scratches a lot of his details.  He makes rails, for example, from stretched sprue, and it looks fantastic.  The judges think so, too, since he wins awards for his models.  But this is to illustrate my point, that you can do those things yourself, too.  Aftermarket supplies are first and foremost a convenience.

Maybe you could Baron,but I have no scratch building aptitude at all  So I will either build OOB or add a small amount of AM to my builds.

I just want something for us mortal builders, a kit, a maybe less cost PE. Maybe have a type, like eduards for the elite builders. Then maybe a off brand, maybe not as detail?, for us low to med builders?

The value of something is the price people will pay for it- sort of a definition of free market.

Alternative is price control- do we want that?  I suspect price controls reduces the selection of goods.

rooster513

 

Bish

 

rooster513

 

Ahrenisavagabond

 

It is my hope that they someday kit builders will incorporate more PE right into certain kits. I'd be willing to pay a percent more for a kit that had PE integrated in altogether. Just don't gouge me with a huge markup. 

 

 

 

 

 

Eduard has their Profipack kit series which includes some nice PE. I picked up a Mk VIII at a show for $18 which is great for me b/c it's my first real taste of PE and I know there will be a learning curve. I think most of them run $40ish (correct me if I'm wrong) retail which isn't a bad deal considering the PE and level of detail most of them seem to have. Others would know better as this is the first Profipack that I've built.

 

 

 

 

That Eduard approach is a good way of doing it, offer the same kit in differant levels and at differant prices. But the PE set you get, at least in the kits of have seen, is the basic Zoom set for the pit. I don't know what scale your kit is, so hard to say if you got a bargain, but generally i think the Profi pack are a fgood deal when coimpared to the weekend versions.

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Bish, it's a 1/48 scale Spitfire Mk VIII. Yeah it's pretty basic and it's colored PE which I know some really don't like but it allowed me to see if PE is something I like working with and would willing to invest in.

 

Ye, thats a good price for that scale. Your right in that this is a good way todecide if you wnat to do PE. The golden rule for PE for me is kowing which bits not to use as much as what to use.

Bish

 

rooster513

 

Ahrenisavagabond

 

It is my hope that they someday kit builders will incorporate more PE right into certain kits. I'd be willing to pay a percent more for a kit that had PE integrated in altogether. Just don't gouge me with a huge markup. 

 

 

 

 

 

Eduard has their Profipack kit series which includes some nice PE. I picked up a Mk VIII at a show for $18 which is great for me b/c it's my first real taste of PE and I know there will be a learning curve. I think most of them run $40ish (correct me if I'm wrong) retail which isn't a bad deal considering the PE and level of detail most of them seem to have. Others would know better as this is the first Profipack that I've built.

 

 

 

 

That Eduard approach is a good way of doing it, offer the same kit in differant levels and at differant prices. But the PE set you get, at least in the kits of have seen, is the basic Zoom set for the pit. I don't know what scale your kit is, so hard to say if you got a bargain, but generally i think the Profi pack are a fgood deal when coimpared to the weekend versions.

 

Hey Bish, it's a 1/48 scale Spitfire Mk VIII. Yeah it's pretty basic and it's colored PE which I know some really don't like but it allowed me to see if PE is something I like working with and would willing to invest in.

rooster513

 

Ahrenisavagabond

 

It is my hope that they someday kit builders will incorporate more PE right into certain kits. I'd be willing to pay a percent more for a kit that had PE integrated in altogether. Just don't gouge me with a huge markup. 

 

 

 

 

 

Eduard has their Profipack kit series which includes some nice PE. I picked up a Mk VIII at a show for $18 which is great for me b/c it's my first real taste of PE and I know there will be a learning curve. I think most of them run $40ish (correct me if I'm wrong) retail which isn't a bad deal considering the PE and level of detail most of them seem to have. Others would know better as this is the first Profipack that I've built.

 

That Eduard approach is a good way of doing it, offer the same kit in differant levels and at differant prices. But the PE set you get, at least in the kits of have seen, is the basic Zoom set for the pit. I don't know what scale your kit is, so hard to say if you got a bargain, but generally i think the Profi pack are a fgood deal when coimpared to the weekend versions.

mrmike

 you could easily spend more than the price of any given kit on "improvements" that few would appreciate, including yourself.

LFAOOOOOO

Ahrenisavagabond

 

It is my hope that they someday kit builders will incorporate more PE right into certain kits. I'd be willing to pay a percent more for a kit that had PE integrated in altogether. Just don't gouge me with a huge markup. 

 

Eduard has their Profipack kit series which includes some nice PE. I picked up a Mk VIII at a show for $18 which is great for me b/c it's my first real taste of PE and I know there will be a learning curve. I think most of them run $40ish (correct me if I'm wrong) retail which isn't a bad deal considering the PE and level of detail most of them seem to have. Others would know better as this is the first Profipack that I've built.

the Baron

Putting on my old curmudgeon hat now, and saying that you can do what we did, back in the day, before there was PE or aftermarket anything, and scratchbuild those details.

And yes, I did build a model in the snow, uphill, both ways!

Seriously, though, you really can scratch a lot of things that folks otherwise represent with PE or resin or whatever.  Some of you may know Bob Ciccone from the shows, he builds 1/700 ships, and while he does use contemporary aftermarket materials, he also scratches a lot of his details.  He makes rails, for example, from stretched sprue, and it looks fantastic.  The judges think so, too, since he wins awards for his models.  But this is to illustrate my point, that you can do those things yourself, too.  Aftermarket supplies are first and foremost a convenience.

 

Yes, you can scratch a lot of these things. I have turned my hand to some serious scratchbuilding when there was no AM option. But while scratching may be cheaper i find it also takes a lot lnger as wel. Yep, i like the conveniance of AM parts and am happy to pay for them. And when i feel the need to scratch, i enjoy that as well.

Ahrenisavagabond

I'm right there with you. PE is way over priced. Take for example the Fascinations Metal Earth 3D metal model kits that are like $4. You only need to look as far as that to know that you are being ripped off. 

But which ones are $4. I built the AT-AT not long ago. thats about £14 and tehre not as much there as in a PE set costing that much.

Ahrenisavagabond

It is my hope that they someday kit builders will incorporate more PE right into certain kits. I'd be willing to pay a percent more for a kit that had PE integrated in altogether. Just don't gouge me with a huge markup. 

 

The poroblem there is, what about those who don't wnat to go the route of PE. Your going to bump up the price of the kits, and as was mentioned, your not going to get a $50 kit with $40 worth of PE for $60. I am quite happy with the way it is where we can buy a model and then decide for ourselves if we wnat the extras.

No one has to buy them to build a really nice kit. My skill level isn't competition level either, but i still enjoy ading the AM. It seems some people are looking at it likes its a chore. For me, its all part of the build and the fun of it.

I'm right there with you. PE is way over priced. Take for example the Fascinations Metal Earth 3D metal model kits that are like $4. You only need to look as far as that to know that you are being ripped off. 

I've been building models since I was 8 and a majority of them are straight out to box as is. In the last 10 years I've built up the courage to kit bash or use polystyrene pieces/brass pipes to build up details.

I can't justify it but then again, my skill level isn't competition level. I've always wanted to get into PE but the price, cost of additional tools/glues have always deterred me. 

It is my hope that they someday kit builders will incorporate more PE right into certain kits. I'd be willing to pay a percent more for a kit that had PE integrated in altogether. Just don't gouge me with a huge markup. 

the Baron

Putting on my old curmudgeon hat now, and saying that you can do what we did, back in the day, before there was PE or aftermarket anything, and scratchbuild those details.

And yes, I did build a model in the snow, uphill, both ways!

Seriously, though, you really can scratch a lot of things that folks otherwise represent with PE or resin or whatever.  Some of you may know Bob Ciccone from the shows, he builds 1/700 ships, and while he does use contemporary aftermarket materials, he also scratches a lot of his details.  He makes rails, for example, from stretched sprue, and it looks fantastic.  The judges think so, too, since he wins awards for his models.  But this is to illustrate my point, that you can do those things yourself, too.  Aftermarket supplies are first and foremost a convenience.

 

Maybe you could Baron,but I have no scratch building aptitude at all  So I will either build OOB or add a small amount of AM to my builds.

Putting on my old curmudgeon hat now, and saying that you can do what we did, back in the day, before there was PE or aftermarket anything, and scratchbuild those details.

And yes, I did build a model in the snow, uphill, both ways!

Seriously, though, you really can scratch a lot of things that folks otherwise represent with PE or resin or whatever.  Some of you may know Bob Ciccone from the shows, he builds 1/700 ships, and while he does use contemporary aftermarket materials, he also scratches a lot of his details.  He makes rails, for example, from stretched sprue, and it looks fantastic.  The judges think so, too, since he wins awards for his models.  But this is to illustrate my point, that you can do those things yourself, too.  Aftermarket supplies are first and foremost a convenience.

Billmc

Thanks for the reply, its a subject since i got back in to the hobby a couple years back. I admit, i had sticker shock when i seen the prices. So over 15+ years its going to go up. It was the whole after market that blew me away. I am a out of the box builder for the most part, i make a lot of my accessories, i will eventually buy out of market i guess. Its all good everyone to there own i agree. IMOP, I think you spend 50 to 100+ for a kit you should not have to buy after market to build a high quality model. Just me in my world. One thing i would like is a build out of the box review, i see a new model, and they already adding out of market. I see it some times but mostly there with extras. 

 

there was discussion regarding "naked build" reviews. These are reviews where the modeler builds the kits out of box without paint, showing parts fit and unpainted detail. There are pros and cons regarding this type of review.

Thanks, i thought maybe that might be it, but i could not see where its a build or review. Maybe a shout out to the model magazines, a couple oob reviews would be fun(not just finescale) thanks. At the end of the day there is not a bad choice here. You can go out and spend to your harts delight, build a tank short of getting into it!. Or go simple, old school have fun with the older kits. I hope as prices will rise that the manufacturer take pitty on us cheap skates lol, toss out a couple builds with some cool things in it that we don't have to take out a personal loan on lol. 

I also have the Nelson kit and the Pontos set to enhance it and have to agree that when looking at the build in it's entirety the huge up front cost is worth it. Obviously others will not agree but this is a hobby about individual preferences and my own enjoyment is all I'm concerned about. I couldn't be happier there are so many choices available.

I agree with Billmc, but I am afraid that the days of new well appointed kits for a reasonable price are gone. That is why I look to ebay, and only buy a deal. If it is not what I want or in my price, then I don't buy it. It takes a little while to find the deals, but they are there. Not only can I not afford the new prices, I don't want to be so concerned that I do it justice that I hate the build.