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What thinner??

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  • Member since
    August, 2018
What thinner??
Posted by kov1985 on Tuesday, September 25, 2018 12:29 AM

Hello everyone

 

in a few days time, I had a competition which I was going to enter my eduard 109 g10 that I’m currently finishing up. It would be my 5th model I’ve ever built and have so far had good success in my endeavours in getting it this far.

 

my perfect paint job (all acrylics. Me paint, gunze and tamiy), the hours I’ve spent, my goal in life for the last few weeks was finishing a competition worthy model.

 

today I’ve started on the under side with my oil dot weathering technique. The underside had a few patches in alclad airframe aluminium as seen on the later Model 109s undersides.

 

so I start with the oil paints dotting here and there with interesting colours. And then the pain begins. I use humrol enemal Thinner to blend it. apparantly, alclad 2 (laquer It says on the bottle) dissolves like battery acid in enemal thinner..

 

so so it’s stripped the whole wing of paint, even the bloody primer. And started dissolving the plastic. Anywhere there was metallic paint, gone. And from there it ripped up the actual paint beside it. On other places on the model where it’s just acrylic paint, fine.

 

for crying out loud, what thinner does one use To do this? Can somebody please just give me an answer because every tutorial and thread I’ve read on this just says to use “thinner”.

white spirits? Mineral spirits? Alcohol? Blood of the chosen one? What in fact doesn’t destroy my work right at the finish line?

  • Member since
    August, 2013
Posted by Jay Jay on Tuesday, September 25, 2018 7:16 AM

I truly feel your pain. Recently I have had to fix a model the day before a competition and luckily got it done after a long night of frustration.

That Alclad looks great but is soooo non-durable. Mine came off just with handeling the model with bare hands, that's why the overnight fix btw.

I use cheap D.I.Y. store mineral spirits for my oil dot filtering over acrylic and Testor's clear laquer and have had no problems with it EXCEPT over Alclad.  I'm anxious to hear answers from other's here as well

 

 

 

 

 

 I'm finally retired. Now time I got, money I don't.

  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Tuesday, September 25, 2018 7:27 AM

I use turpenoid with oils

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    November, 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Tuesday, September 25, 2018 8:34 AM

You can use cheap generic thinner from Home Depot or Lowes like I do but you cannot use solvent type thinner over solvent type paint like Alclad. You need an acrylic barrier to isolate the paint from getting pulled. I use MM flat acrylic clear as the barrier over enamels or lacquer for doing dot filters, washes, etc. You can use Mr. Color or Tamiya semi gloss if you don't want a plain flat finish on NMF. Even though these two are called acrylics, they can be thinned with lacquer thinner or Mr. Color Leveling Thinner which is solvent base.

Just make sure the acrylic barrier has at least a couple of days to cure.

JJ

I find Alclad to be durable and never had an issue with it. Could it have been a bad batch?

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    August, 2018
Posted by kov1985 on Wednesday, September 26, 2018 4:48 AM

Thank you everyone for your replies. No bs answers is what I wanted and it’s what I got. I was starting to think the same thing, bomb it with a barrier of tamiya clear. Even a few coats. I only use mr levelling thinner with acrylics (gunze and tamiya). For some reason everything else that has ever existed and called itself an acrylic thinner I have bought and clogged my airbrush with instantly. I’m still at a loss at how people can use alcohol or x20a or water or whatever with acrylics and still have ANY success. Surely I’m not alone in that.. 

Luckily the job was salvageable and I’m still entering it. It looks good as long as no one picks it up and has a good look at the train wreck underneath. It’s painted over but still has that melted texture from where the thinner started to chew the plastic.

 

for the first time I was doing so well, and I was confident I had a competition worthy job on my hands. ...and then baby Jesus doth smite thou. Im sure he’s still having a laugh up there Haha.

  • Member since
    September, 2011
  • From: Milaca, Minnesota
Posted by falconmod on Wednesday, September 26, 2018 7:08 AM

I was using the dot filter on a project with the oil paint on top of tamiya's gray rattle can primer,  and used mineral spirits on a brush to thin the dots and the mineral spirits ate through the primer,  Is this normal?

What should I have used?

John

On the Bench: 1/72 Ki-67, 1/48 Airfix P-51D

1/72 LS Dinah III, 1/72 Hasegawa T-33A

  • Member since
    November, 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Wednesday, September 26, 2018 9:53 AM

falconmod

I was using the dot filter on a project with the oil paint on top of tamiya's gray rattle can primer,  and used mineral spirits on a brush to thin the dots and the mineral spirits ate through the primer,  Is this normal?

What should I have used?

John

 

I believe Tamiya TS is not acrylic but lacquer based so the enamel thinner attacked it.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, September 26, 2018 10:07 AM

I use odorless turpentine (turpenoid) with oil paint, all over clear acrylic. I think Mona Lisa Thinner is taht.

  • Member since
    May, 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Wednesday, September 26, 2018 11:37 AM

FWIW, I just days ago made the same mistake, and I supposedly know what I am doing.

I forgot the acrylic barrier coat between my Alclad and enamel wash. Same results as you. Bang Head

-Greg

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, September 26, 2018 12:28 PM

Letting us know what part of the world that you live in might be helpful for recommending products. What is available in one place/country, is not available in others.

That being said, if I’m working with oils for weathering effects I like to use Mona Lisa brand thinner. It is EXTREMELY mild and wont even attack dried enamels. The particular brand of thinner and enamel paints are incompatible- I tried to mix up a wash using the two and got a gummy mess, believe me. And of course it will not attack acrylics either. I don’t work in lacquers, so I can’t say one way or the other on that type of surface from personal experience. If you’re in the USA, Hobby Lobby carries the Mona Lisa thinner in the artist oil paints section.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    August, 2018
Posted by kov1985 on Thursday, September 27, 2018 1:48 AM

I’m in northern Australia, although it gets pretty humid and hot, I work in aircon room. Humidity lately has been about 50%.

is that why nothing works with thinning acrylic here except mr levelling thinner do you think?

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Thursday, September 27, 2018 5:05 AM

KOV1985 ;

 Hi ! Listen this is what I do . If it's Acryllic lacquer or enamel I use their recommended brand as per their label . Everything else gets the Mineral Spirits treatment ( available at Home Depot in Paints ) I too am still struggling with the switch and I am not a happy Camper  T.B. P.S. I also do NOT use Alclad for anything !

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Thursday, September 27, 2018 2:41 PM

kov1985

I’m in northern Australia, although it gets pretty humid and hot, I work in aircon room. Humidity lately has been about 50%.

is that why nothing works with thinning acrylic here except mr levelling thinner do you think?

 

I’m in the coastal area of Southern California. Not so hot here most of the year, but constant dampness/humidity from the ocean. In my experience, the humidity mostly affects my airbrushing by water vapor build up in the compressor. My old compressor had no moisture trap, so I’d get occasional spits of water drop build up as I was painting. Depending upon the paint scheme and paint type & brand being used that could be a big problem or no big deal.

Thinning acrylics is a whole deal all on its own. Unlike enamels, there is no one size fits all approach. Many acrylic paints thin only with that particular brand of thinner, and if you try a different brand, or an improvised thinner such as isopropyl alcohol or lacquer thinner, you may end up with a gummy mess in your airbrush. If you only use one brand of acrylics, no big deal. Just buy their thinner and off you go. If you use multiple brands of acrylic paints, you may end with a shelf of different acrylic brand thinners looking like a bar or pharmacy.

One thing that I highly recommend is to get yourself a “paint mule”. Either an old build, or go by some inexpensive new kit that has no other purpose other than to be your crash test dummy for paints. Don’t know how this paint will interact with that weathering technique? Try it out on the mule first instead of on your expensive high cost project.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September, 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Thursday, September 27, 2018 5:00 PM

With Tamiya acrylics, I use Tamiya's acrylic thinner.  Anything else causes the paint to clump, and when hand-brushing, when applying a second coat, the brush will lift the first coat off.

The other acrylics I use are Andrea, Vallejo, Lifecolour, Model Master, and craft-store brands.  I thin them with water or isopropyl, with no problems.

Enamels I thin with mineral spirits, regardless of the brand of paint.  Oils, too.

Lacquers I thin with lacquer thinner.

The mineral spirits I get at the hardware store, and I haven't had any problem with the store brands.  The lacquer thinner, I got at AutoZone.  Again, I've never had any problem with their lacquer thinner.

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    November, 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Friday, September 28, 2018 6:47 PM

the Baron

With Tamiya acrylics, I use Tamiya's acrylic thinner.  Anything else causes the paint to clump

 

You haven’t tried Mr Color Leveling Thinner. The paint sprays even better with it.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, September 28, 2018 6:59 PM

the Baron

With Tamiya acrylics, I use Tamiya's acrylic thinner.  Anything else causes the paint to clump, and when hand-brushing, when applying a second coat, the brush will lift the first coat off.

I use generic hardware store thinner with Tamiya paints for airbrushing with zero problems.

As far as handbrushing Tamiya paints goes, I add their thinner or better yet their new retarder to the paint to extend the drying times and allow you a little more time to work the paint with the brush before the surface skin forms. Their thinner is ok for that purpose, the retarder far better.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

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