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Seriously Now

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  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Seriously Now
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Wednesday, February 06, 2019 8:29 AM

 Okay . 

 Since when do I have to put all the rivets in a hull expansion plate on my 1/350 Fletcher?   Really ? I think getting serious about the Hobby is B.S. Why ? Well , isn't it what the name implies ? Why Not ? If we take the building of any kit to much to heart the results can be disastrous !

     Why disasterous ? you say ? Well , think about it .Have you ever done something so many times you get bored or have Modelers Block? Think now . You've probably built your share of what you like .Does finishing this one feel like a job and have you run out of detailing ideas ? You're sitting right on the edge of Modelers Block and don't even know it .

    When I built the two H.O Scale Steamboats for First, the Convention Center and Then the legislative Library in Arkansas I was Burned out . I couldn't have built another and gotten it right .Why ? Too much worry as to how others would see my work and making sure even the wood in the stacks for the boilers was real . And stacked properly . Gees whatta job that was .

   Now I build these things as gifts (Smaller of course , but for fun ) And guess what ? I forgot the wood loads on at least two ! Who cares ? The recipients love them . So you see , This rivet counting will be the death of this wonderful Time Spender we call a Hobby . Hobby , That from which you derive pleasue in creating that which could be percieved as art !

 Don't count rivets and don't you dare tell me my flap wells are the wrong color red ! Hey ! they're red , so what ? I don't think for a minute all of us work for Museums either .So stop gritting teeth over details you don't need and ignore the rivet counters .If they do it in miniature I would've hated to have been in service with them !

 Along that vein , I painted a Lightship British Crimson .So ? it's red ain't it ! Bye . T.B.

  • Member since
    July, 2018
  • From: The Deep Woods
Posted by Tickmagnet on Wednesday, February 06, 2019 8:50 AM

Well said.



  • Member since
    January, 2015
Posted by PFJN on Wednesday, February 06, 2019 9:37 AM


I agree.  As an aside, one thing that really gets me about "Counting rivets" is that on a lot of old ships, vehicles, etc the actual number of rivets (or other details) used could vary from unit to unit within the same class/type.Stick out tongue

1st Group Build

  • Member since
    January, 2009
  • From: hamburg michigan
Posted by fermis on Wednesday, February 06, 2019 9:47 AM

A British Crimson???Surprise

What kind of maniac are you?!!!!Propeller


For some...getting every single detail, right down to the last rivet, is the "hobby". 

 I recall one guy, that used to show up on the various forums, that would poopoo every kit out there. He'd have red lines drawn all over every picture, showing how inaccurate everything is. As obnoxious as that is for just about everyone seems as though that was what he enjoyed in this hobby of ours. He did seem quite bitter Tied

As far as I am concerned, "close" counts in horse shoes, hand grenades and scale modeling.

(BTW, I've seen some models in museums, that wouldn't even cut it for the average guys display shelf)


  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, February 06, 2019 9:50 AM

Tanks, when this line gets aired, I have several reactions.

1. There is a value to me in trying to be accurate. 

2. IMO the better the accuracy, the better the model.

3. Artistic "license" is not an excuse for sloppiness.

4. PJ notes the added issue of variation in prototypes. Understanding that is the highest form of accuracy.

But all the above is my own approach.

It is wrong to criticize others for their own approach, unless there's a sense that the modeler is open to it. And keeping it constructive. 

It would really be nice if you would post pictures, TB. For me at least, it would go a long way towards understanding what you think. I remember seeing some pictures of your workspace in a newspaper story. It was pretty impressive.



  • Member since
    May, 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Wednesday, February 06, 2019 9:53 AM

Well, T.B. - aren't you contradicting yourself a littlle? In one post you write people should do at least some research, and this one read's a bit like: OK, now you know this should be built this way, but forget it, it doesn't matter...

I know very well that accuracy on models has to stop somewhere, and it's up to the modeller building the particular model, to say where the accuracy is going to end on this very model. But I think the point here is to maintain a strong backbone and not let "other people" tell you how to build what and how many time to invest in this or that - that happens at work.

Then again, if I see a build here, and I tell the modeller something could be corrected, I don't like to hear all of those "rivet counter" stuff. This is forums, many people read it, the ones interested in what I wrote should appreciate the time I took to write something, those uninterested are free to disregard my comment.

I've already heard from forum members here they are fed up with the "rivet counter" stuff and refrain from commenting unless specifically asked to. This way we see less and less posts on the forums - they are drying out. Pity.

And yeah - let's have fun with our hobby. Without fun there's no point in it all. But a job well done gives you a lot of fun, so let's hope for the best! Good luck with all your modelling projects and have a nice day


All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

  • Member since
    March, 2003
  • From: Towson MD
Posted by gregbale on Wednesday, February 06, 2019 10:16 AM

In my advancing years---(I hope they're not 'declining,' quite yet)---I have found great pleasure in building what I call 'first impression' projects.

They're mainly the eye-catching and pulse-pounding illustrations of art, or colorful illustrations in books...that as a kid made me stand slack-jawed and say "I want to build that!"

Many of these, in my case, have been disproven by later scholarship. The snake on the old Revell Stuka probably had sand-colored spots...not red. And the famed 'purple Zeros' of the old Aurora box art almost certainly never existed.

But I don't have to care.

Over the years, I've scratchbuilt complex models for industrial clients using nothing but drawings. I've done archival research to nail down obscure details of mechanisms or color schemes. I've built--and rebuilt--obsessive levels of detail, just to get things right.

I can 'walk the walk.' But as the years have gone by...I realize I don't always need to.

Because when I see...or build...a Stuka in that old red-and-white snake (anti-) camouflage...I remember why I was so hungry to start building models to begin with.

"I want to build that!"

(End of 'old codger' diatribe. Big Smile)


 George Lewis:

"Every time you correct me on my grammar I love you a little fewer."
  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Wednesday, February 06, 2019 10:33 AM

What is the porpose of the build?  Build for yourself?  Build for accuracy?  Build for technical knowledge/presentation?

You must be true to your research and the purpose of the model.   Recreational/OOB is good enough for me,  accurate within my skills,  most accurate according to the available research.   

For example your library riverboats.   Supposed that your research showed that the shipyard was using a new format, hemispherical head rivet as opposed to hand forged pyramid shaped rivets otherwise used by other yards at the time.   However you chose to not show any rivits because they meant nothing to your build.  They were an encumberance to you.

Fifty years from now a researcher finds your model in the library and concludes that the shipyard ground the rivet heads flush.   Totally missing the facts that the hemispherical rivet heads were significant.

The rivet plans on a Babcock & Wilcox-type  builder's model would be significant and should be followed as closely as possible.    

What is the purpose?

  • Member since
    January, 2015
Posted by PFJN on Wednesday, February 06, 2019 12:04 PM


Some of this discussion reminds me a bit of something an engineering professor once told us in class. 

Basically, in reviewing ship drawings you would sometimes see references to various Mil Standards and such abbreviated MIL-STD-..., however there was an "unofficial" abbreviation that that read "MIL-LTD-D41" which actually meant "make it look like the d##n drawing for once" since a lot of details on ships were fitted up on the spot, with drawings sometimes being only "for guidance" (at best) or completely ignored (in some cases).

I once worked on a project back in the early 90s where we were refitting a class of small vessels with new davits, and a previous engineer had reviewed the "as-built" drawings for the ships and concluded that the existing structure was adequate, only to find out during safety testing of one of the davits that when the ships were actually built someone in the yard had replaced the large ( 6 or 8 inch brackets) called out in the drawings with smaller (4 inch) ones, for reasons that they only knew (I guess) Surprise

1st Group Build

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Tuesday, February 19, 2019 10:56 AM

Hi Ed ;

 I just caught this .That you mention the rivets on a Babcock and Wilcox Boiler is funny .Those were the original ones I got training on . Part of damage control is knowing all the systems and their parts .Forgetting the rivets on such a beast in the larger scales would be unforgiveable ! Oh ! Do you know how many rivets are on the casing ?7115 !


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