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Food for thought

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  • Member since
    June 2018
Food for thought
Posted by TankerEasy on Monday, February 18, 2019 11:36 AM

So this past weekend I went to my first modeling event since returning to the hobby last year.  I went to the annual APMS meet in Atlanta Georgia.  While it was cool to see many of the builds on display being judged, and I did pick up some stuff to add to my stash, I also noticed somethings that kind of connected the dots on the some recent threads I’ve seen on here with talk about the younger generation and where the future of the hobby is heading.  I myself am pretty young; I just turned 31 the beginning of this month, so I know for what seems like a large majority of the crowd in modeling puts me a good 30 or so years behind most.  Now this weekend I witnessed why I think most of the younger crowd isn’t getting involved, and that is why would younger folks what to get involved in the hobby when the old timers act so rude?  Now it doesn’t bother me, I have thick skin so I just brushed it off, but I mean quite literally the old timers were rude.  I myself got a lot of strange looks because I was definitely one of the younger ones there.  Instead of being greeted and welcomed, I got the cold shoulder by most.  Literally when I walked in and was approaching the registration desk all I received was stern looks from the  older gentleman sitting behind it, so let’s be honest, that’s not very inviting to younger folks thinking of getting into this.  As I walked between the rows in the room with the vendors I was respectful as I could constantly saying excuse me, but time and time again all I received was grumpy looks from every old timer when it appeared i may have been standing in their way… again this isn’t inviting. 
 
In the room with the actually builds being judged, I overheard two guys talking over a Bergpanther, that in my opinion was exceptionally done.  The one thing they pointed out it was “lacking” the proper amount of suspension sag in the rear, they mentioned nothing of how well the detail work was, and how it was weathered beautiful.  All I could think was if someone new to modeling, was to be standing their hearing this, it’d probably turn them off from ever attempting to get involved in a show.. I get it when it comes to shows, we strive for accuracy, but if this is what people are going to ding, I feel its splitting hairs. 
 
The point of this is directed towards the older folks, and of course maybe this was just this area, maybe it’s not like this in other regions, but for the sake of the hobby, which I’d like to see grow, especially amongst the younger ones, let’s make sure we are inviting to the young ones!  Spread the word, be inviting, make people want to be involved, don’t come off as cold and unapproachable! 
 
I’m just a younger guy taking note of what I witnessed this weekend.  Like I said I have thick skin and I don’t sweat it, but it doesn’t mean everyone else will.  We wonder why the “millennials” don’t build models, maybe it’s because the old timers are making people shy away from it.  The next time you’re at your LHS, and you see a youngin, make an effort to be inviting, engage them in a conversation!   Food for thought fellas.. food for thought.

Millennial modeler

Air Force vet (2006-2012)

Recently completed: 1/48 Tamiya V1

On the bench: Hasegawa 1/8 Clerget 9B rotary engine, 1/35 scale Trumpeter SA-2 Guideline missle

 

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2018
Posted by Tosh on Monday, February 18, 2019 11:43 AM

Welcome to FSM Forum,

Your Friend, Toshi

Reside in Streetsboro, Ohio

 

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Monday, February 18, 2019 12:00 PM

TE I think this issue is hit and miss. I’m 63 and I have been to many local shows and have been treated ok, others not so good. For the majority Modelpalooza and Jaxcon shows here in Florida are run by some great guys so no complaints there.

I remember entering that Atlanta AMPS show back about 7 years and the folks were very polite and helpful to everyone but that was back then and personnel change.

You WILL always have the so called “experts”that will call out your model for silly things like either not enough weathering or too much weathering or the color is not the “correct” shade. 

What I find really messed up is that same model that was dissected by the “experts” and consequently voted down, is then entered at a different show and scores a 1St place Gold and voted best AFV! Lol.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    August 2012
  • From: Parker City, IN.
Posted by Rambo on Monday, February 18, 2019 12:17 PM
I was at the IPMS Blizzcon show this weekend in Columbus Ohio and the amount of youth builds was enough to fill 5 tables the most I've seen in a long time. Like you I turned 31 a few months ago and most of the time the youngest one around at the hobby shop. At shows around here (Indiana, Ohio, Kentucky) the people are always nice even the older guys. The only ones I ever seem to have problems with is a few grumpy car guys at the LHS (maybe the blue pill don't work for them so that's why they are so grumpy) Always putting down my work because they are "Killing Machines".

Clint

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Monday, February 18, 2019 12:43 PM

Rambo
The only ones I ever seem to have problems with is a few grumpy car guys at the LHS (maybe the blue pill don't work for them so that's why they are so grumpy) 
 

 

LMAO !! That is way too funny Beer

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, February 18, 2019 1:02 PM

Interesting observations. I’m a member of the local IPMS and AMPS chapters here near Los Angeles, and have been for over a decade now. Im not old now, but I’m not young anymore. I was 42 when I started to attend, and will be 54 in a few months. One thing that I have noticed from the two groups is that certain genre modelers can tend to have certain personality types. And modeling clubs tend to have group personalities of a sort. The car guys are one way, the aircraft guys another, ship builders something else, and sci fi guys... and armor guys... AMPS folks... a funny group. Lots of veterans in there. Some former tankers, cav, or mech infantry types, with the gruffness of those fellows. And a group personality can form off of that. Now don’t think that means grumpy, because at least out AMPS Group is as funny and light hearted about things at times as any group you would ever find. But it takes a bit of time for a new guy to be accepted in. Just like in any group. We welcome in modelers of any age, warmly. And encourage them, along with all our members, to participate in various competition events.

AMPS judging, is different from IPMS judging. There is no 1st,2nd, and 3rd place. AMPS has Gold Silver and Bronze,and a build is judged against itself and a set of standards on its own merits. By AMPS rules and standards, all entrants in a category could conceivably place as Gold. Or all could not place at all due to workmanship. In IPMS, if there are three entrants into a category, there will be a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place award, even if all three show every modeling mistake known to man.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2017
Posted by Jrock83 on Monday, February 18, 2019 9:42 PM

I hear you, I'm 35 myself and have tried to get young people I work with to get into modeling but they just have no interest. As for the "know-it-alls", they probably have a negative outlook on life in general and feel the need to put down someone else's attempt at a subject to model. Encouragement is all someone needs to start the addiction to a hobby Cool On the flip side, people I can't convince to get into modeling always buy me kits during Xmas so the modeler benefits Big Smile

  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posted by Real G on Monday, February 18, 2019 10:41 PM

plasticjunkie

 

 
Rambo
The only ones I ever seem to have problems with is a few grumpy car guys at the LHS (maybe the blue pill don't work for them so that's why they are so grumpy) 
 

 

 

 

LMAO !! That is way too funny Beer

 

Hey wait, I thought if you took the Blue pill, you forget you met Morpheus and wake up in your bed none the wiser.  If you take the Red pill, Morpheus shows you how deep the aftermarket accessory rabbit hole goes.

Am I mixing things up here?  Or am I living in a dream world?  Or was I thinning the stash this afternoon, and am suffering from low styrene pressure as a result? 

“Ya ya ya, unicorn papoi!”

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, February 18, 2019 11:01 PM

If you want to join a group, respect it.

Those "old farts" are very knowlegable. End of story.

Can't buy their critique, easy to ignore.

I don't walk into a meeting and decide not to like those who don't see things my way.

 

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Monday, February 18, 2019 11:28 PM

Funny how different groups have different personalities.   When I was into RC buggy racing, those guys were so secretive and uninviting (antenna snapping jerks).  RC flying, the exact opposite.  Nicest most helpful folks.  1:1 car guys are pretty great as well.  For the most part model groups are great.  Club meetings more so than contests as I've seen some bad behavior at contests... but if you want to compete, prepare for criticism good or bad.  To me it totally makes sense that younger folks have different subject matter interests which I would guess drives the division.  

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    June 2018
Posted by TankerEasy on Tuesday, February 19, 2019 7:43 AM

GMorrison

If you want to join a group, respect it.

Those "old farts" are very knowlegable. End of story.

Can't buy their critique, easy to ignore.

I don't walk into a meeting and decide not to like those who don't see things my way.

 

 

 

 

I feel as though you may have misunderstood what im saying.  A large chunk of the group there this past weekend was a local group.  They, themselves, the individuals didnt do much to make it inviting and friendly.  As for the "old farts", im not saying they arnt knowledgable, in fact i didnt say that at all so im not sure why you'd even go there.  My point, again, for anyone that doesnt grasp this concept, is if we continue to wonder why the younger crowd doesnt get involved with the hobby, could be a multiude of different reasons, but acting stuck up or snobby towards younger folks wanting to attend such events certainly isnt going to help.  Hope that clears things up. 

 

Millennial modeler

Air Force vet (2006-2012)

Recently completed: 1/48 Tamiya V1

On the bench: Hasegawa 1/8 Clerget 9B rotary engine, 1/35 scale Trumpeter SA-2 Guideline missle

 

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Tuesday, February 19, 2019 9:39 AM

GMorrison

If you want to join a group, respect it.

Those "old farts" are very knowlegable. End of story.

Can't buy their critique, easy to ignore.

I don't walk into a meeting and decide not to like those who don't see things my way.

  

 

Respect is a two way street. They may be very knowlegable but it doesn't give them the right to treat others like garbage. It's called having good manners and not being stuck up. Instead they should help the newcomer with suggestions on how to improve this or that instead of trashing the person's work. 

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Tuesday, February 19, 2019 10:12 AM

I used to judge radio controlled scale events.  The static (non-flying judging) by AMA rules was very objective.  It took a fair degree of effort, but elimininated a lot of the so-called expert problems.  The contestants had to submit a brochure with the model, containing 3-views and photographs.  There was a form for judges to fill out with a lot of numbers.

Now, typical RC contests have fewer models to judge, but maybe we would not have to go so extreme.  But I would indeed like to see more objectivity to judging at IPMS contests.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Tuesday, February 19, 2019 10:18 AM

Don Stauffer

 

  But I would indeed like to see more objectivity to judging at IPMS contests.

 

 

 
At AMPS at least the judges leave you some comments on the good, and what needs to be improved which points the modeler on the road to a better build. I haven't seen that in IPMS events.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, February 19, 2019 11:21 AM

plasticjunkie

 

 
GMorrison

If you want to join a group, respect it.

Those "old farts" are very knowlegable. End of story.

Can't buy their critique, easy to ignore.

I don't walk into a meeting and decide not to like those who don't see things my way.

  

 

 

 

Respect is a two way street. They may be very knowlegable but it doesn't give them the right to treat others like garbage. It's called having good manners and not being stuck up. Instead they should help the newcomer with suggestions on how to improve this or that instead of trashing the person's work. 

 

One point brought up in the original post is that he was in the judging room and overheard some comments by judges. One things AMPS does is provide a critique feedback to the modeler at the end of the contest. The modeler will not hear the actual judging, but will get their feedback saying x was done right, y was needing improvement, etc. AMPS judges are supposed to go thru training on what to look for and how to critique before they can judge at a contest. Without hearing what the modeler themself heard and thought of the critique that they received. Third parties taking offense at what may be business as usual interactions between those two who have no problems themselves with the interactions are frivolous. Of course there are exceptions for illegal or extreme behavior, but... 

But getting back the basic point of the post, a club composed of grumpy old men that discourages young outsider new blood coming in will eventually perish.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Tuesday, February 19, 2019 5:00 PM

I don't know if I'd call them unfriendly but some of the guys around our hobby shows are kinda... well... intense. I'm talking the kind of guys that turn out five or six first place models a year every year. I suppose I'm a little intimidated to go up and talk to them. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, February 19, 2019 5:15 PM

Gamera

I don't know if I'd call them unfriendly but some of the guys around our hobby shows are kinda... well... intense. I'm talking the kind of guys that turn out five or six first place models a year every year. I suppose I'm a little intimidated to go up and talk to them. 

 

I guess that’s where chapters come in handy. The same guys who make those masterpieces at the show are usually members of one chapter or another. I know several of those guys here at IPMS and AMPS. Most of them, at chapter meetings, are more than willing to talk, when you go up to them and ask, “how did you do that?” in reference to their latest shown off work.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    February 2011
Posted by GreySnake on Wednesday, February 20, 2019 6:59 AM
Can’t say I’ve experienced really anything negative or unfriendly from other modelers in person. Every show I’ve been to everyone has been really friendly so far in twenty years. Really the only negative experience I’ve had in person was a Hobbytown that had the rudest staff and ignored you if you were buying anything but RC stuff. Not surprised to see they are closing down. Other then that I’ve come across a few people online my experience has been positive.
  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Wednesday, February 20, 2019 11:34 AM

stikpusher

 

 
Gamera

I don't know if I'd call them unfriendly but some of the guys around our hobby shows are kinda... well... intense. I'm talking the kind of guys that turn out five or six first place models a year every year. I suppose I'm a little intimidated to go up and talk to them. 

 

 

 

I guess that’s where chapters come in handy. The same guys who make those masterpieces at the show are usually members of one chapter or another. I know several of those guys here at IPMS and AMPS. Most of them, at chapter meetings, are more than willing to talk, when you go up to them and ask, “how did you do that?” in reference to their latest shown off work.

 

I guess I should suck it up and just walk over and say hello and congrads! The members in our IPMS chapter are good guys but more average quality modelers. 

 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

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