Paint peeling off

Sounds good, thanks for bringing it to my attention.  Just one last question, will I need to get a special cleaner for it too or can I just use my Vallejo airbrush cleaner?

Of Models & Monsters

So does that mean the StyNylRes is acrylic based too?

 

So does that mean the StyNylRes is acrylic based too?

Of Models & Monsters

I've just come across Ammo One Shot Primers, they say they are acrylic based which encourages me.  Anyone here used it successfully? or does it just peel like Vallejo?

 

I've just come across Ammo One Shot Primers, they say they are acrylic based which encourages me.  Anyone here used it successfully? or does it just peel like Vallejo?

I used flat black Stynylrez on my DC-3 as a base for Alclad. I masked the anti-icing boots before painting the silver. The tape came off just fine. It's a little "black" for stuff like rubber. I wonder if they could make a dark dark gray.

Yes friend I remember your Beetle. Masterpiece model.

Badger are you listening?

I spray vallejo model air paints, and I have had nothing but trouble with their primers.  I have since switched to a large rattle can of Army Painter  black primer.  Just pop out to the garage or right out to the back porch, spray my primer and let it flash off, then bring it back to the work bench to dry for a day or two.

Vallejo primers have always peeled for me.  It doesn't bite into the plastic enough, If at all.  That's where the Tamiya fine surface primer excels.  I have not had any problems with the Army Painter primers yet either.

As for thinning the Vallejo Model air with Tamiya acrylic thinner, I have never had the problemost of it turning my painter to into a gelatinous good, and I usually add a few drops every time I spray...

I just did a test with the Vallejo primer and after a week of drying it peeled off with Tamiya tape. The plastic Was cleaned. Also with paint on the same plastic ( not primed) such as Tamiya acrylic the paint stayed on and didn't peel off. 

GMorrison

I really disliked that stuff. It seemed to go bad in the bottle.

Come to think of it, this isn't the first bad report I've heard about the Alclad Black Base. Maybe I just got lucky. You'd remember my black VW, I used it on that, it was perfect. Then like a dork I brush painted F ....F...... Fu......Fut........FUTURE! over it, and got microcracks.

I always blamed the floor polish, but who knows, maybe it was the Alclad.

Oh boy, just saw Eagle and Uncle Jay Jay's posts. 3 bad experiences. Yikes.

BTW, hope you like the Stynylrez as much as I do. It's been my go to primer for a while now. Note they have a new black gloss, been meaning to order some. Might be the hot ticket here.

I experienced the non-drying Alclad black base primer myself. I switched to Dupli-color auto BSP100 laquer primer, thinned 25% with laquer thinner ,  It's $8:00 a QUART , that's 32 ounces, 946 mil. Cheap and I find it indestructable.  It sprays smoothly and lays down very well . When I run out I simply go to my local auto parts store and pick up another quart...no shipping costs either.  I do wipe down the bare plastic with an alcohol pad prior to priming just to be on the safe side.

GMorrison

Oh Greg I love you like a brother❤️, but I really disliked that stuff. It seemed to go bad in the bottle.

I second that.  When I started using Alclad, I bought a pretty good assortment of colors, and also bought their gloss black base.  I painted my first few pieces with the Alclad gloss black base, and it must have already gone bad, because 4 days later it was still as tacky as it was on day 1...it never cured.  It was airbrushable right out of the bottle, so I hadn't added anything to it, the stuff just didn't cure.  I've been using Tamiya X-1 as my base coat for Alclad ever since with no issues.

Oh Greg I love you like a brother❤️, but I really disliked that stuff. It seemed to go bad in the bottle.

My old go to under Alclad was Testors little square bottle gloss black.

Currently I'm trying black Stynylrez. It dries flat, so we will see if it polishes well.

Of Models & Monsters

Hey Stikpusher.  I give in, I think I'll have to get Mr Surfacer primer.  I just wanted to ask that it looks as though they don't have one in gloss black but they do have a regular black one.  Would this alone work under silver or is there 500 other products i'll have to get with it?

 

I can’t say about how well it will work under silver by itself. I have never used the black. Most likely it will give you a Flat Black base as the gray does. Probably your simplest solution would be to do a gloss black coat over the black Mr Surfacer. But you should not need to use any additives beyond thinner for airbrushing.

This is the best gloss black base/primer I've used. Sprays neat, no 500 other products needed.

Hey Stikpusher.  I give in, I think I'll have to get Mr Surfacer primer.  I just wanted to ask that it looks as though they don't have one in gloss black but they do have a regular black one.  Would this alone work under silver or is there 500 other products i'll have to get with it?

Also, just wanted to add a quick note, if using lacquer based primers then make sure you are in a well ventilated area.  Gave myself quite a head ache being lazy and just spraying some in my work area.

From personal experience, unless you get every small spot of grease off your model before you prime, the Vallejo primer will peel right off  (has happened quite a few times to me).  Personally I do not like any of the Vallejo primer because they do not stick well to the plastic, I would go with a good lacquer based primer instead.  If you do not have any other primer, than I would wipe the model down with IPA before you prime, then wear gloves while priming.  Also make sure to use a good tape like tamiya tape, to strong of tape will peel the paint off as well, even if you did clean it real good before priming.  If you do clean it off good with IPA, wear gloves and use a tape, like tamiya tape, then you should be fine.

P.S. your paint you have on there now is probably all ruined if it is starting to peel in some areas.  You should test around to see how bad it is.

Indeed, if you do not sufficiently rinse off soap and water, nothing will stick (like using soapy water to get off a stuck ring on your finger).  It is hard to know when you have gotten all the soap off.  So alcohol washes off the soap film.  However, the alcohol will also rinse off the parting oil even without the soap and water first.  So I just rinse it off with the alcohol.

I conducted a test just earlier.  Before I painted my Tu-160 I had practiced some airbrushing on Zvezda's Petlyakov Pe-8 which I had screwed up earlier and royally pissed me off (but that's a story for another forum).  Anyway I used the exact same vallejo primer and the same tamiya white paints on it and I never washed the parts in soapy water or alcohol; today I tried scratching it and placing masking tape on it then ripping it off and both the paint and the primer stayed on.  So it got me wondering if the type of plastic on my Tu-160 was different or a lower quality material.  Has anyone built Zvezda's 1/144 Tupolev Tu-160 and had any problems with painting it?

I wash my plastic parts in Dawn dishwashing detergent. Dawn is great for removing grease and oil. Then a wipe with alcohol. I use either Tamiya or Testor's primer. I have never had a problem with paint peeling off of the plastic even when using masking tape.

I always use alcolhol to clean my bare parts before priming. I use Tamiya primer, white or grey, sometimes Krylon for black, decanted and thined with Mr Color Leveling thinner. Then painte with whatever brand I choose; Tamiya, Mr color, Vallejo, or Creatix. Never had an adhesion issue. Vallejo on its own will not adhere well at all. I have no experience with thier primer, I find Tamiya to be perfect for priming.

BK

Tojo72

See thats the thing,with today's kits I have never once went thru that process,washing,scrubbing with comet,electric toothbrush,simple green,alcohol bath,I don't even rinse or wipe them.Just a spray of Tamiya primer + any paint and never had any adhesion  issues.Dont understand why thats all necessary. 

I don't get it,but if that's what works.

 

One word:acrylics. 

If you use enamels, you can bypass all that prep work with no worries. Primer won’t hurt, but it’s not a necessity. At least not on an all styrene kit. Multi media kits, particularly those with resin are a different animal.

And all the best primers that I’ve used, such as Mr Surfacer or Tamiya need lacquer thinner for thinning and/or clean up of your airbrush, so there is that smell/chemical issue that so many have a problem with regarding enamel paints.

I guess its just a habit, and I buy a lot of old kits off of Ebay, so its probably still needed.  

See thats the thing,with today's kits I have never once went thru that process,washing,scrubbing with comet,electric toothbrush,simple green,alcohol bath,I don't even rinse or wipe them.Just a spray of Tamiya primer + any paint and never had any adhesion  issues.Dont understand why thats all necessary. 

I don't get it,but if that's what works.

With large parts, I give those a good scrubbing with a comet/water paste and a cheap electric toothbrush.  Afterward, I use that same electric toothbrush while rinsing to make sure I get all of the comet residue off.  Then comes a soak in undilluted Simple Green, followed by another rinse, and then a quick bath in 91% isopropyl alcohol...mostly to speed drying time.  For primer, I have a mason jar of decanted Tamiya primer that I airbrush onto the model, and I thin that primer with MEK to give it even more bite.  When I was experimenting with priming and painting techniques, I found that the above process worked best for me.  About 2 hours after priming, with a scrap part from my stash, I deliberately tried to rip the primer from the plastic by using Dymo label tape (which has a really strong adhesive) .  The primer stayed on the plastic, with no transfer to the tape.

I've always used Tamiya, but I get the financial issue.

I just got a bottle of Stynylrez (sp?) look forward to trying it.

When tape takes up paint, always look at the back of the paint on the tape. It will be primer almost always.

Another canard is that subsequent coats of whatever help hold down the previous coats. I don't believe that.

Bill

You cannnot thin Vallejo anything with X20A or ISO or any sort of alchohol. Well, you can, but it will separate to turn to globs.

I'm not going to be as kind to Vallejo primer as stikpusher was. Vallejo is my go-to paint but their primer doesn't adhere well and it cannot be sanded. It's high point is it self-levels like a dream and brings out surface detail as well as anthing. That might be why it's a favorite of figure painters, I don't know.

If you don't need to sand it and don't plan on masking over it, just spray the Vallejo primer neat and you'll be fine.

Thanks everyone for the advice, I think it was a mix of me not cleaning the surface thoroughly and handling it with dirty fingers.  I appreciate the advice about Mr. Surfacer but I happen to have found some laying around and the smell is just too much for me so I'd rather stick with vallejo and try to work it out.

Yes, Sounds like you didn't get the surface completely clean. I don't like using soap and water because I worry that maybe I might not get all the soap rinsed off and end up with a soap film that interferes with adhesion instead of the mold release. I prefer wiping parts down with 90% Isopropyl alcohol. Not only does it do a great job of cleaning off mold release but it also evaporates really fast. Another thing to watch for is how much oil is on your fingers when you handle a part. For example, it's possible to interfere with adhesion if you wiped your forehead with your hand and then handled a part prior to painting. Our foreheads often get really oily and it's easy enough to not even realize that we just transfered the oil from our forehead to the model. Barrett