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General beginner's help

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  • Member since
    November 2021
General beginner's help
Posted by Is this thing on? on Wednesday, November 10, 2021 12:00 PM

I haven't built a model in many decades. When I did it was later destroyed with BB's or fireworks. In my old age, I have decided to get back into building models for display purposes.

I am interested in general best practices for building the models of today. I have purchased Tamiya 1/350 scale models of the Yamato and Missouri with the intention of starting with the Yamato before the Missouri and another model of an Ohio-class submarine that I intend to give to a friend who served on that type of submarine.

I want the models to turn out the best that they can despite my having intention tremors in my hands. I am interested in hearing about what you do to prep the kit, how you best fix molding "slop" (for a lack of a better term), how to fix faults in the model, do I paint before I glue, and tricks for steadying unsteady hands. Advice for things like that would be appreciated.

Specific questions:

  1. Do I need to clean/de-grease modern model kits before painting? Some say yes, but they seem to be old-schoolers that have done it that way forever. Other's say modern models do not require it.
  2. Do you use primer on the model? My thoughts are that every layer of paint will degrade the ability to see details molded into the model, so the less layers of paint the better.
  3. Do you paint the parts while they are on the sprue, and then paint again after cleaning up the marks left from cutting the part, or do you cut the part from the sprue and sand the marks before painting? Cutting and painting small parts seems would be very difficult when not on the sprue.
  4. Does modern modeling glue chew-up the paint and not adhere to the parts like they used to? I have super-thin modeling glue that I got because the reviews of the Tamiya kits say that the parts fit really tight requiring super thin glue delivered with what amounts to a needle. That's fine if it doesn't ruin the paint around the edge of the parts.
  5. Related to the last, do you glue the small parts to the main part and then paint, or do you paint and then glue? It seems to me that the former would just create obstacles to paint around when painting the larger part's details.
  6. If the parts do not fit that well, how do you address the gap(s)?
  • Member since
    August 2013
Posted by Jay Jay on Tuesday, November 16, 2021 8:07 AM

That's a lot of pertinent questions and volumes have been written in answer to them all.  My advice to you is to get on Youtube where you can find helpfull videos of all the things you are curios about.  I am an experienced modeler and I still peruse Youtube often where I can actually see the work being done.

 

 

 

 

 

 I'm finally retired. Now time I got, money I don't.

  • Member since
    July 2015
Posted by MR TOM SCHRY on Tuesday, November 16, 2021 8:40 AM

Welcome back to the hobby!  I agree with the suggestion to watch some youtube videos.  I'd also suggest to listen to any of the current modeling podcasts out there. Go to "modeling podcasts . com" and there is a listing of the most popular podcasts.   I know that two of the guys on the "On the Bench" podcast build a lot of ship models.  BTW, be prepared to use photo-etched parts if you're going to get into ship detailing.  Good luck!

TJS

TJS

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Tuesday, November 16, 2021 8:56 AM

1. I never feel the need to decrease my models,and never had any problems.

2. Yes I prime my models, it enables you to see imperfections that need to be repaired,and if I am using acrylics it helps with adhesion.

3. I almost always assemble then paint,sometimes missles and other accessories are painted on the sprue,depends.

4. Modern glues work quite well,my favorite is Tamiya Extra Thin-green cap

5. Yes,I mostly assemble then paint

6. I mostly use putty and Mr Surfacer 500 to fix seams

Is this thing on?

I haven't built a model in many decades. When I did it was later destroyed with BB's or fireworks. In my old age, I have decided to get back into building models for display purposes.

I am interested in general best practices for building the models of today. I have purchased Tamiya 1/350 scale models of the Yamato and Missouri with the intention of starting with the Yamato before the Missouri and another model of an Ohio-class submarine that I intend to give to a friend who served on that type of submarine.

I want the models to turn out the best that they can despite my having intention tremors in my hands. I am interested in hearing about what you do to prep the kit, how you best fix molding "slop" (for a lack of a better term), how to fix faults in the model, do I paint before I glue, and tricks for steadying unsteady hands. Advice for things like that would be appreciated.

Specific questions:

  1. Do I need to clean/de-grease modern model kits before painting? Some say yes, but they seem to be old-schoolers that have done it that way forever. Other's say modern models do not require it.
  2. Do you use primer on the model? My thoughts are that every layer of paint will degrade the ability to see details molded into the model, so the less layers of paint the better.
  3. Do you paint the parts while they are on the sprue, and then paint again after cleaning up the marks left from cutting the part, or do you cut the part from the sprue and sand the marks before painting? Cutting and painting small parts seems would be very difficult when not on the sprue.
  4. Does modern modeling glue chew-up the paint and not adhere to the parts like they used to? I have super-thin modeling glue that I got because the reviews of the Tamiya kits say that the parts fit really tight requiring super thin glue delivered with what amounts to a needle. That's fine if it doesn't ruin the paint around the edge of the parts.
  5. Related to the last, do you glue the small parts to the main part and then paint, or do you paint and then glue? It seems to me that the former would just create obstacles to paint around when painting the larger part's details.
  6. If the parts do not fit that well, how do you address the gap(s)?
 

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Tuesday, November 16, 2021 9:04 AM

Welcome back to the hobby and welcome to the forum!  I'll try to answer your questions individually.  Keep in mind that there is probably no single or correct answer to any of your questions, but rather, multiple answers, and everyone does what he likes best, what works best for him.

Is this thing on?

Do I need to clean/de-grease modern model kits before painting? Some say yes, but they seem to be old-schoolers that have done it that way forever. Other's say modern models do not require it.

It's not a bad idea, but it's personal preference.  The object is to remove anything like mold release compounds, grease, oil, dirt, and start with bare styrene.  I do wash kit sprues before I start assembly.  I use an old glass baking dish, add warm water, and a couple drops of a de-greaser (SuperClean).  Others will say that they don't bother cleaning the parts, and have never had any problem.  I prefer to do it.

Is this thing on?

Do you use primer on the model? My thoughts are that every layer of paint will degrade the ability to see details molded into the model, so the less layers of paint the better.

Priming is intended to improve the adhesion of your color or finish coats of paint.  It also can serve as a quality control step-a coat of primer can highlight flaws that you didn't see, like seams that still need filling, scratches or other marring on the surface, things that can ruin your finish coats and make some remedy necessary.  That might be as simple as touching up of the blemish, or as drastic as stripping the color coats and staring over.

Again, some say they don't prime, but I think more of us do.  I do.  I like Tamiya's Fine Surface Primer, though I have also used Rustoleum's primers and Walmart's house brand automotive primer.  The last few cans of both of those products wound up clogging badly, though, so I haven't used them in over a year.

Is this thing on?

Do you paint the parts while they are on the sprue, and then paint again after cleaning up the marks left from cutting the part, or do you cut the part from the sprue and sand the marks before painting? Cutting and painting small parts seems would be very difficult when not on the sprue.

Again, everyone will have a preference.  I'll paint some things on the sprue, especially small parts, if I might lose them if I remove them first.  The drawback to painting on the sprue, in my opinion, is that I probably will have to go back and touch up the sprue gate on the part after I install it on the model.  Personal preference.

Is this thing on?

Does modern modeling glue chew-up the paint and not adhere to the parts like they used to? I have super-thin modeling glue that I got because the reviews of the Tamiya kits say that the parts fit really tight requiring super thin glue delivered with what amounts to a needle. That's fine if it doesn't ruin the paint around the edge of the parts.

If you mean, will styrene glue damage paint? Yes.  Does paint on the surface interfere with the glue? Yes.  That's why we have the old tip to scrape away paint from mating surfaces before applying glue, for a better bond.  Does everyone do it?  No.  I do, though.

Also, I prefer to use styrene cement to attach styrene to styrene.  I like the idea of the weld between two parts.  CA glue does not create that bond, so I don't use it to assemble my models.  Except to attach unlike materials, like PE, resin, or metal, to styrene.  On my resin builds, or metal figures, I'll use 2-part epoxy for most assembly, because I think the bond is stronger over time than the bond CA glue provides.

I use Tamiya super-thin, as well as Testor's in the black plastic pentagonal bottle with the long spout.  I have used Plastruct's Weldene and Bondene, when I started working with liquid glues.  They're good, and I'd still use them, but I do like Tamiya's flow.

And I still use good ol' Testor's tube glue for some applications, strings and all.

Is this thing on?

Related to the last, do you glue the small parts to the main part and then paint, or do you paint and then glue? It seems to me that the former would just create obstacles to paint around when painting the larger part's details.

This question is also related to your question about painting parts on the sprue.  I'll attach parts then paint or paint then attach, depending on how difficult or even impossible it would be to reach that part.  Painting a car dashboard, for example-probably can't paint it once it's installed, so, I'll paint it first, then install it.  Or pieces of equipment on a figure.  I'll attach something if I can still get to it and if it doesn't prevent me reaching something else.

Again, there will be different opinions.

Is this thing on?

If the parts do not fit that well, how do you address the gap(s)? 

Again, several ways, and personal preferences.

For gaps-proper, open gaping gaps between parts, I'll use putty, like the old Squadron white-not their later, more recent variety. I thin it with acetone to liquefy it and use an old paint brush to apply it.  I'll also use a cotton swab soaked in acetone to remove the excess and minimize the amount of sanding and resultant damage to the surrounding area.  You have to be careful with the solvent-it's "hot" and can damage the styrene.  But very small amounts are all it takes.

Or I've even used 2-part epoxy putty, which I use on metal and resin figures, and for sculpting.  I like Aves ("ay-vees", Latin for "birds"-I know, I asked 'em), personally, but there are many brands.

Or I'll use styrene scrap, whether pieces of styrene sheet, or sprue, stretched or not, and then flow liquid styrene cement over the filler.  Once the glue has cured, then I can cut, scrap, sand away the excess.

For seams-fine separations, not big gaps-I like to use the "squeeze" technique and reduce the possibility of visible seams at the start.  This works well on long seams like along aircraft fuselages, or around the edge of wing top and bottom halves, anywhere you can apply a little pressure along the seam.  You hold the pieces together, flow liquid styrene cement along the join area, and apply pressure.  A little bead of melted plastic will extrude.  When this cures, you can scrape away that bead with the back of a knife blade, and then finish with fine sanding as necessary.

Failing that, I'll use the putty and acetone to fill the seam, or even pieces of stretched kit sprue and liquid styrene cement.  When it's dry or cured, then I sand as necessary.

As far as sources of tips go, besides this forum, where you'll find other answers to your questions in some of the other subforums, too, I still like Shep Paine's classic books.  I happened to pull out "How to Build Dioramas" again the other night and read it.  His advice still holds up today.

The big thing is your own experience, though.  Get building, try things, see what works for you and what doesn't.  In the end, that's really the best way.

I hope this all helps!

Best regards,

Brad

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    January 2010
Posted by rob44 on Tuesday, November 16, 2021 10:27 AM

AS for your intention tremors, I notice I have been shaking more the older I get. Some stratergies that have helped me.

1) cut back on caffine. I notice a lot steadier hnd if I keep away from coffee.

2) try magnesium supplements. I find that takiing magnesium citrate has really improved things and it is not expensive.

3)Support your elbows on the bench on a padded surface.

4) use "helping hands" devices to help hold objects as you work on them. There are a million different kinds.

https://www.sciplus.com/helping-hand-with-solder-holder-304-p

5) I use an optivisor for close in work. While the depth of view is limited you can quickly get used to it. I find it easier then a stand alone magnifier, but opnion varies.

 

  • Member since
    July 2016
  • From: Malvern, PA
Posted by WillysMB on Tuesday, November 16, 2021 11:43 AM

Airfix Model World just put out a very nice publication called, "Scale Modelling, Step by Step" that I have found very useful as a fellow returning modeler. I picked up mine at Barnes & Noble in their Hobby section for $19. Very well laid out, lots of good information, and beautifull illustrated. Well worth the price IMO.

  • Member since
    October 2021
Posted by PhoenixG on Tuesday, November 16, 2021 8:10 PM

Welcome back to the hobby!Welcome Sign

If you like books for reference I'd recommend "Essential Skills for Scale Modelers" (Amazon has it for under $18).  It's put out by the same publishers as the FineScale Modeler magazine.  I have copy of it and found it immensely helpful when I started getting back into the hobby. 

It really does a lot to answer the very questions you asked with lots of photos and example builds with different types of models.  Additionally there's a whole chapter about building a ship from start to finish.  Again, with lots of example photos.

I enjoyed reading it cover to cover.  Even though there were several types of models I don't plan on doing, many of the techniques used on them do transfer to what I am working on making them worthwhile reads.

Good luck with your projects!

On the Bench:

Bandai 1/72 Defender Destroid

  • Member since
    November 2021
Posted by Is this thing on? on Thursday, December 2, 2021 9:57 AM

Thanks for the tips, y'all. I bought and read "Getting Started In Scale Modeling" but found it somewhat shallow for what I wanted and deep on things that I never thought about.

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